13 Colonies Quenched!

[sailorc]

looks like a great map. can't wait to try it.

just a few questions though: what's the point of holding Indian Territory if there's no bonuses for it? it seems to me the only benefit would be to flank the enemy...

Also, but very minor: in rules, the abbreviations are shown for Del. (Delaware) and R.I. (Rhode Island), but not Conn. It's obviously Connecticut, and it's not very important. just mentioning

[captainwalrus]

Phillidelphia should boarder Delaware, not Vally forge bordering Delaware. Also, the region that is call Allegheny is where the Appilation mountains are, and the region called Appilatia is where the Allegheny river is. The names should be switched. The Georgia bonus is a little high, 2 would work better. The boarders in the New York region are hard to see, so I can't tell well what borders conn. and Bunker Hill.

[barterer2002]

Phillidelphia should boarder Delaware, not Vally forge bordering Delaware.

Valley Forge is fine bordering Delaware. Since its representing the western suburbs of Philadelphia all the way out to York and that would include Delaware County (which shares the border with Delaware). the Philadelphia region is drawn to represent all the northern parts of the state all the way up to Williamsport really. I wouldn't have an issue with Philadelphia bordering Delaware but Valley Forge doing so is OK as well.

[Industrial Helix]

Thanks for the continued thoughts and support.

Mr Benn... Personally I think i'd like to keep England out of the map as for the majority of the war, Britain had issues in Europe with France and Spain. Direct invasion from England didn't seem like a realistic possibility and a majority of the British fighting was on the part of the military units already there. I think jefjef has a good point in saying the superior military power is represented by the ships (wish i thought of it myself actually).

As for some of the other comments and questions, I think a rewriting of the rules and restatement should suffice. After so many updates the rules have seemed to get jumbled up. Expect a more formal update within the week with the new visual image.

As it stands at the moment, The Indian territories will start a neutral 2; showing their inactivity during the war while offering a potential alternative route between the colonies. They will also be killer neutrals.

The notion of having two groups of connected ships is a good one, I'll play around with it.

The next update should be within a few days. I think the idea of a ballot/declaration of independence is the best offered so far to give the colonies some identification. I'm thinking each colony has a capital, marked by a star troop circle. That star troop circle can attack the neutral declaration, say neutral 1. This will result in a bonus of 1 or 2, perhaps autodeploy 1 on the capital. Thoughts?

[jefjef]

The notion of having two groups of connected ships is a good one, I'll play around with it.
The next update should be within a few days. I think the idea of a ballot/declaration of independence is the best offered so far to give the colonies some identification. I'm thinking each colony has a capital, marked by a star troop circle. That star troop circle can attack the neutral declaration, say neutral 1. This will result in a bonus of 1 or 2, perhaps autodeploy 1 on the capital. Thoughts?[/quote]
I like the killer neutral 2..... And an addition of a french fleet ( how about 1 ship or 2 at most) worth 1 or 2.. It isnt like they really played a major part.. they arrived after the war was all but won. As for capitols...... Ya might be overloading a heavily bonused map as it is. The british weren't voted out... They where kicked out! But it would add another strategic aspect to the game.. Great work Helix................... Looking forward to it!

[Industrial Helix]

Click image to enlarge.

Ok, the new changes have been quite vexing and I'm still at a loss for ideas as to how I'm going to fix some stuff...

First up, the changes made:

Simplified the ship ships to match the style of the trees, still not happy, but its a step in the right direction.
Trenton to New Jersey
13 bonuses for 13 colonies.
Added a convoluted key with tentative bonuses.
Added in the rules that Indian terrs. revert to 2 after each round.

Problems and concerns
The key is.. wow... its a problem. Can I just place numbers in the terrs and leave the names out? I seriously need some ideas cause I'm out at the moment.

Bonuses. Ok, there's a lot of single man bonuses that a player can potentially land to get an unfair edge. I'm thinking about grouping the smaller states into bonus regions, say, Rhode Island and Conn. for a bonus of 1... but then it gets away from having 13 regions. Still unsure as what to do.

Anyway, I'll see what the mods say about the above concerns and then I will decide what to do.

[jefjef]

Sir I think you need to region the small states back together.. The southern half looks great.. 10 bonus areas would be more than enough for this map... But like this a great drop - 1st move & ok dice wins....

[jaytorade]

maybe you could do what the USA maps or some of the other maps do when holding capitols

for an example holding 3 New England states = +1 hold 4 =+2 or some scheme similar to that. SO you can still have them as separate territory, but modify the bonus so some one doesnt run away with it.

[Industrial Helix]

Hmm... now that's not a bad idea. Now I just have to figure out how to translate it graphically.

EDIT: I had a thought as I was supposed to be researching my dissertation... what if the entire bonus structure was based around hold x amount of colonies get so much bonus. I'd gravitate the conflict towards the north, but that's where most of the war took place anyway.

Make the bonus +1 for two colonies, +2 for 3 colonies, ect. Maybe start it off at +1 for holding 3 colonies, not sure... thoughts?

[whitestazn88]

the update is a really good improvement with the indians and all. i'm not sold on the current bonus structure, but i'm sure it will eventually get resolved. if you are gonna keep the bonuses as is, then the legend can be made with just the numbers and no names imo...

[Industrial Helix]

Click image to enlarge.

ok, The big change to this map is he bonus structure, which runs on how many colonies are held rather than space taken up in a region. Personally, I think this is the route that the map will be taking as its the only one that seems feasible given the unique set up of the 13 American Colonies. The numbers are all tentative at the moment and I'm very open to suggestion. The graphics regarding the bonus key are a little untouched at the moment, but I'll be jazzing it up as the map progresses; I just wanted to get another update out there.

One major question I have is will the XML be able to support the bonus regions as they are depicted here? As far as I understand it won't be a problem, but having never done XML before I could be wrong.

Thoughts?

[jefjef]

If ya go this way may I suggest that you divide some of those 1 tert states.. You do have map room in Maryland - jersey - bunker hill..Even Mass bay. Cuz A good drop & 1st move can still walk away with it. (A few more terts would be good anyway)

[Industrial Helix]

Hmm... good point.

I added Fort Lee to New Jersey, Delamarva to Maryland and Castine to Mass. Bay.

Delaware seems like its going to be very difficult to hold with its 5 borders. Rhode Island is relatively easy to hold with only 2 borders and Conn. also slightly difficult with 4. New Hampshire is pretty easy with 2. Even so, if you landed all 4 colonies, you'd only get a bonus of 3 men with a total of 9 possible attack routes for your enemies.

Click image to enlarge.

[jefjef]

NICE... I like it......... You still could have MASS split...... Ya got boston & bunker hill Already labeled in..... That would make R.I. bordered by 3 terts. (bostons the label for the ship but I spose you can work around that)........ I'm done..... Can't wait to play it.

[Industrial Helix]

You're killing me here Jefjef... I didn't want to do it cause Cape Cod looks a little smashed in there and then the words get confused with Boston and so on and so forth... but I did it. One of the benefits is that Rhode Island has another border to defend against.

Click image to enlarge.

[jefjef]

.. you are a master game/map maker....... I'm only trying to help Now could you move that bunkerhill line to top right corner of R.I. ? hahahahahaha But seriously you could float the boston ship up a smidgeon to relieve conjestion if it seems too busy...... You left out bonus listing for 3 states.. was that your intent? You could make the 1st bonus avail after having 3 states.. WOW... battlefield for sure!

[Industrial Helix]

I think that it might be alright with the ship and all that. We'll see what others say about it, but I think it should be good. That is unless I change my mind later on down the line. But yeah, thanks for the help, I'm glad someone can keep up with the quick crits ont he map while I'm still in the mood to edit it.

But yeah, I left the holding 3 colonies out because I didn't want someone to land three of the single terr. colonies and and get something like 3-4 men. Still working out the specific numbers of it, but this is how the bonuses will be determined.

[jefjef]

One last thought on this. (Yeah right) What about Shawnee tert connecting to N Georgia? It would make the map more fluid and Georgia more threatened. (Georgia is kinda a sheltered area) and S Carolina also has a ship connection to it. And I just don't see the 2 to 4 state bonus jump. With the additional terts it is for sure harder to land states on the drop. Could the bonus structure be a bit light? Maybe take into account the tert #s for each colony. Make the larger colonies worth more. Guess ya really need to do some simulated play. 5 Stars! Looks like your pretty well there!

[Industrial Helix]

You make a good point on the Indian terr attack to Georgia as S Carolina already has a ship. I'll make the change and include it in the next update.

As for downplaying the southern bonus, much of the war did not take place in the South, not to say none, and I think the map should reflect this aspect. Say, if you did capture up to Virginia, defending at Baltimore, Appalachia and Viriginia capes, you'd have a bonus of 1 for colonies and 18 terrs held, so 6 men traditional deployment, at a total of 7 deploy. Then with easy aquisitions of Delaware and Maryland to bring the bonus up to 4 men. Right after is another great defense point of Philadelphia, Delaware and Virginia Capes which should land you the game at 5 bonus men plus 7 regular deployment (The defense at best putting up 10 men total).

Doing the same thing at Philie, Brooklyn Heights and Delaware you land 11 men but still have a long way to go, giving the South a chance to fight, but the advantage goes to the North (which were the more valuable territories anyway).

What I just noticed is that Philadelphia is going to be a hotly contested territory, as it should be as it was the capitol at the time.

So yeah, in summation, I think the South will be quite powerful given its bottleneck points and should yield many men given its size rather than colonial bonus. But the North will be the more hotly fought over areas, as it was in 1775-83

[jefjef]

Hello again, I. HELIX. A graphics thing. Could you maybe put a minute man & red coat on the map? Or even flags. Maybe have the bonus graph superimposed over them. .. Road Island deploy spot is in the sea & name in the state borders. Would it work if you flippy flopped em around?

[Kabanellas]

My first look at the map (my bad I know – it totally skipped from my eyes).

I've tried to read all the past posts just to keep in touch with the latest updates. Something might have missed me though.

Do you gain bonus by having groups of colonies right?
Let’s say: if you own Georgia and South Carolina you’ll have a bonus of 1 soldier.

I’m asking because in your previous post you said that someone owning the south up to Baltimore-Appalachia-Virginia Capes would have a bonus of 1 (in my math it should be 3 - Georgia + South Carolina + N Carolina + Virginia = 4 colonies) but I Probably got everything wrong.....

I like the visual style – straight and simple. Just one small remark – I’d do the artwork in the bonus legend to make it more coherent with the upper legend. It seems that graphically it’s a bit lost down there.

Grat work! - I love historic maps

[CharruaWarrior]

I like the idea that bonuses go by how many colonies you control. Holding Georgia will give you the same amount of armies as holding Delaware. Great map I'll be waiting to play it. My first comment by the way.

[Industrial Helix]

Kabanellas - Yeah, the bit witht he Batlimore ect i was just pointing out the bottleneck point on the map and speculating how it might work out. But the Bonus structure is correct, the bonus you receive is based on how many actual colonies you hold. Delaware is worth as much as Georgia, ect. Still working out the numbers and details, but that's the inten so far.

Thanks CharruaWarrior for commenting, I'm glad that the bonus structure is gaining support, I think it should be the way forward for this map.

Question to Foundry mods: What else do I need before this map hits the main foundry?

[TaCktiX]

Absolutely nothing, I've just hit a spate of burn-out. Go get 'em in the Foundry.

[Kabanellas]

Ok, got it right then