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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby MrBenn on Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:22 pm

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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby jefjef on Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:38 pm

Long island can and should also be an area. Historically the english landed there and washington withdrew to the main land. also I think british canada (3 areas) should not be worth 6... 4 at most... =D>
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:32 pm

I think I'm pretty happy about dropping the British Canada bonus, to be honest, and don't see it coming back.

As for using Long Island as a terr., that's not a bad idea, I just wonder if there's space between New York and the ship. I'll play around with it and see if its possible.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby ustus on Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:46 pm

could you just move the ship a little to make room? you don't have to find room if you can make it.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby targetman377 on Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:04 pm

i really like this idea i think its a great map. and i can not wait to play it
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby josta59 on Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:56 pm

'Bout time we got the Revolution on up in heah!
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:38 am

Ok, semi-update...

First off, thanks everyone who's expressed excitement with this map!

Secondly,

I played with the ship and Long Island. The terr. fits in there reasonably well. I'll keep playing with it, but it definitely belongs there.

I also tried playing with the glow around the indiv. colonies to designate the original 13.... not going well at all. In this pic you can see it around New Jersey and New York. I tried playing with the border color as well.. not pretty. So thoughts or ideas regarding that would be appreciated.

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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:59 am

The only thing that bothers me with this map is it's historical accuracy. First off, this is called the 13 American colonies, but there are only 6. If i remember correctly, the 13 original colonies were Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Connecticut, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire. I know that you have to make decisions based on the gameplay aspect, but i think it would be better if this was a little more historically accurate. Also, why not just name Bunker hill Massechussettes?
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:23 am

Led -

Yeah, I know what you mean. i'm trying to work that out at the moment, see the poll and above discussion. One of the possibilities was to have a bonus for each colony in addition to the existing regional bonuses... I'm having trouble working that out graphically though. It's possible that i might just abandon the regional bonuses and go for a bonus for each colony, giving each its own color region, ect. I'm going to wait until thepoll ends on the 14th before making the final decision. Stay tuned for future updates.

As for the names of each colony, when this started out as an American Rev. map, I had the names reflect the battles fought there. As this map is going towards a 13 colonies approach rather than American Rev. i will change many of the names probably with the next update.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:40 pm

That is surely coming along. Good work thus far. :)

I like the general graphical theme you have going on the map. It's clean, crisp, smooth---albeit flat. Very flat.

Anyways, the ships, however, don't seem to reflect the type of graphical theme you have in the rest of the map (comparing it to the texture of the land/water, the tree icons, and the upper scroll legend). I suppose the same could even be said for the lower legend as well. There seems to be two different, though somewhat similar I give you, competing visual styles in the map.

Hm, when I first looked at this update of the map, I first thought: emptiness. The center area of the map is jam-packed, and then the right and left "border" areas almost look strangely sparse (especially the left area).

I see you mentioned you were experimenting with border styles---the current option you have right now is very simple. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing. Depends on how the map progresses graphically---if that is the direction that map is headed in perhaps they are fine---if not, perhaps they feel a little underdone.

Keep up the good work.


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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby jefjef on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:08 pm

8-)
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby riodeishere on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:34 pm

this seems to be a great idea, and the drafts have improved massively. the work so far is brilliant.
the only thing is that the bonus of each area is un-proportional. but that will be sorted once (if) it becomes beta.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby whitestazn88 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:37 pm

the update looks good, i like the addition of long island

here's my most recent thought on the indian territories. at this point, if i were playing the game, i'd rather take the boats than an indian territory, because my opponents are holding the boats, and the boats can then attack bonuses that are too far away.

to make the indian territories more viable, i'd put them in as neutral 2s and then maybe make them have a bonus of +1 or 2 as you said earlier.

keep up the good work
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:05 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Led -

Yeah, I know what you mean. i'm trying to work that out at the moment, see the poll and above discussion. One of the possibilities was to have a bonus for each colony in addition to the existing regional bonuses... I'm having trouble working that out graphically though. It's possible that i might just abandon the regional bonuses and go for a bonus for each colony, giving each its own color region, ect. I'm going to wait until thepoll ends on the 14th before making the final decision. Stay tuned for future updates.

As for the names of each colony, when this started out as an American Rev. map, I had the names reflect the battles fought there. As this map is going towards a 13 colonies approach rather than American Rev. i will change many of the names probably with the next update.

Thanks for the feedback!

ok...
as for the regional bonuses, you could do it as the three i learned about in history class this year. New England, The Middle, and The South. You could have every colony as one territory, in which case you would have 13 territories, then you could add more boats, to add territories, and eliminate the straightness. Keep the british canada, but maybe also add some native american territories.

I think that your graphics are really good. but i think all that needs work is the historical accuracy, and the gameplay.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby jefjef on Sat Jun 13, 2009 10:33 am

You know what.... as few territories as there are on this map it may be best to have each state as its own bonus.OR increase # of bonus areas (like split New England & the Carolinas& make Maryland & deleware its own region & add a baltimore area to it. & put Trenton w/ Penn)...The value could reflect the historical population & economic value of the day...... Be a lot of bonuses but all would be small....And shouldn't a ship actually connect to Yorktown? It would play well & is relative historically
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby Sharpsh00ter on Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:59 pm

Love the map. Great quality and looks very playable. I also loke the idea of having 2 groups of ships one American and one of British. not sure how that would work. Maybe including More Canadian teritories, New Brunswick and a Nova Scotia?

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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:54 am

Wow.... thanks everyone for taking the time to post feedback. Must have got called for preliminary review :)

Andy - By flat do you mean there should be mountains and rivers, ect? I figure I could add those in, but doing it well and tastefully might be a challenge. I'll give it a shot.

As for the ships, changing them to something akin to the tree is in the plans. Only makes sense right? Or perhaps I could give the trees a little more depth. I'll play with it.

As for the left and right thirds... I think the sea area is pretty packed, actually. Granted its not all playable area, there is stuff going on there. The left side, yeah, its sparse. I'm hoping with the new bonus added in (individual colonies) that it'll take up some space. It's part of the dilemma in working with this specific region, its really long and thin. Not much you can do about it but I think the indian terrs and the ships will round out game play.

As for the border styles, maybe mountains or rivers will spice it up a little.

Thanks again for your feedback.

riodeishere - Not sure what you mean by unproportional... if your talking about the individual colonies, then yeah, should be worked out soon.

Whitestazn - good point. I really don't want the indian terrs. to fall out of play in this game, but at the same time used sparingly. I'll take your advice into consideration in this next update.

LED - The three areas as the major bonus regions I like and will consider. As for only having 13 colonies as 13 terrs. not so much. I thin kit would limit gameplay and the map too much. I mean, many battles happened in a single state, for example. The americans and British weren't just hopping from state to state. I think it would be unrealistic to only have one terr. for each colony, tho necc. for some (rhode island).

As for canada, I've been playing some games with neutral starting bonuses and features and I'm coming to realize more and more that I never use them and favor going straight for my opponent rather than wasting men on a neutral. I think if Canada stayed a playable feature, it would be largely ignored. I think I'm sold on keeping it out.

Jefjef - I'm going to give that a shot with the next update and try a version of this map with each state as its own bonus. It's got to be tinkered, I think, cause right now its not working. I'll keep your advice in mind with the next updates.

sharpsh00ter - That's a plausible idea about the ships, I'll keep it in mind. I don't think the Americans had much of a navy in the war. Maybe french ships or something. I'll give it some thought. As for adding Canadian territories, I dont think I'm going to do that. While parts of Canada played a role in the war, I think adding more of canada would only stretch the map further. Thanks for you comments and ideas!
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:03 am

Update:

Ok, the poll has ended with adding in separate bonus areas gaining a narrow majority. That's the idea I'm going to play with first on the next incarnation of this map.

I like the idea of giving 13 bonuses a shot and seeing how it works visually, but I have some qualms with it that I think need to be discussed: Since its random deployment, do you guys think that it has the potential to give a player serious advantage? I mean, if you land new jersey and rhode island and new hampshire, you're up for a bonus of 3 right off the bat. It seems possible but unlikely, but I think the same issues everyone had with British Canada being open to deployment pertains to this as well. Discuss.

I'm going to do my best to get another visual update in before the end of the week. However, I have dissertation work plus I'm going to Egypt on Sunday. I'm going to be gone for a week and this map is going to be the furthest thing from my mind, lol. So hopefully, I will be able to crank out an adjusted map. I think its feasible. But the following week, I won't be working on it.

Mods, if you feel this warrants vacation time, so be it. I'd rather not get moved, assuming I get out a new map by the end of the week. But I understand if a short vacation if I don't get the next visual update in.

So, finally, I hope to get this next map out soon then :) thanks everyone!
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:32 pm

Look forward to your next update and how it pans out visually and mechanically...hm


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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:12 pm

Looks good Helix. Image wise, slide that territory border between Yorktown and Arlington, the part along the Chesapeake coast, to the north a smidgen, Yorktown itself is probably just to the north of that line, it's semantics, I know, but it is the decisive battle of the Revolution after all. ;) I think you probably don't have to add abbreviation explanations for Rhode Island and Delaware, in fact you could fit "Delaware" on the map, it's only 5 more letters. (Of course as an American who lives in the region, just because I know what the abbreviations mean doesn't mean everyone else does, and I probably shouldn't just offhandedly figure everyone else knows what they mean... :roll: )

13 bonuses is a bit much, I agree. As an alternative, how about something along the lines of adding some sort of ballot to the map. The 13 colonies voting for the Declaration of Independence and give bonuses for having a particular voting block. (The South, New England, Moderates, Big colonies, Small colonies, etc.) Connect them to each other and to the capital territories within each colony. Of course adding 13 more territories might be a bit much, but adds a uniquely American element that could be interesting.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby pimphawks70 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:17 pm

Maybe Georgia should only be worth two... It is only accessible from two other territories and holding a 3 bonus for one turn gives that player a HUGE advantage. I don't know if this is the point in the map-making progress when something like that is addressed or not but I thought it was worth mentioning...

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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby lostatlimbo on Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:47 pm

RedBaron0 wrote: how about something along the lines of adding some sort of ballot to the map. The 13 colonies voting for the Declaration of Independence and give bonuses for having a particular voting block. (The South, New England, Moderates, Big colonies, Small colonies, etc.) Connect them to each other and to the capital territories within each colony. Of course adding 13 more territories might be a bit much, but adds a uniquely American element that could be interesting.


I really like the idea of this as a game objective. Maybe make the ballot boxes neutral (or if you want to get fancy, have the signatures be territories?) and require a player to hold all 13 (declaring independence) to win the game.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby pimphawks70 on Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:28 pm

lostatlimbo wrote:
RedBaron0 wrote: how about something along the lines of adding some sort of ballot to the map. The 13 colonies voting for the Declaration of Independence and give bonuses for having a particular voting block. (The South, New England, Moderates, Big colonies, Small colonies, etc.) Connect them to each other and to the capital territories within each colony. Of course adding 13 more territories might be a bit much, but adds a uniquely American element that could be interesting.


I really like the idea of this as a game objective. Maybe make the ballot boxes neutral (or if you want to get fancy, have the signatures be territories?) and require a player to hold all 13 (declaring independence) to win the game.


Sounds like an excellent idea, but I think that a more reasonable objective would be better. On most maps that require objectives,the objective is extremely difficult to get; by the time anybody captures it the game already has a clear victor. I would love to see a map in which players could battle for objectives instead of an objective merely being a way to avoid clean up... This is extremely circumstantial considering the person making the map hasn't even stated if he wanted an objective or not.


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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby jefjef on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:07 pm

I do believe 10 (small) bonus areas would work well on this limited area map.... Split new england & carolinas & reconfigure new york / penn-trenton / maryland-delaware.. & to make it a real battlefield make one or two of the middle bonus areas (like Virginia & penn) worth a couple more than any of the others..... I know i would use troops to keep someone from having them instead of just forting or trying for a smaller bonus...... =D> as far as a victory objective... control of all colonies was the objective...the war wasnt won because the british were "voted" out.. i'm against a victory objective other than anihilation of the enemy. 8-)
Last edited by jefjef on Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:48 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The 13 American Colonies *New Poll, 5/31/09*

Postby josta59 on Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:17 pm

Just don't get rid of Saratoga, please! That's where I live, and I'm excited about it. :)
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