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Re: Greenland [D] - v15 on p1&9 › bonuses?

Postby jako on Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:40 am

Wow, this map looks interesting. I didn't know that a greenland map was possible considering its considered a barren land of ice.

Great job on it so far.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby the.killing.44 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:54 pm

LED ZEPPELINER
the polar bear could be a little more textured/ darkened (just a touch).
Really?
i think that you should move the attack route from Østgrønland to K. Frederik VIII Land (just a personal preference) [seconded by saaimen and aequitas08]
Good idea. Done.
saaimen
Maybe the two 2-bonuses could be balanced more if the Haffner connection went to Nares Land?
Hmm, I'm split. On one hand, I agree, because it would be more even, but on the other I don't think a bonus should need to hold all territories, especially a +2 (unless it's tiny of course). So, what do people think about this?

Updates:
  • changed connections around

To-Do:
  • :-k
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:01 pm

About gameplay no suggestions, i'm complitely agree with the actual gameplay.

Only a suggestion about graphic. Kujalleq continent has a very different color on large map and small one.
This thing has not influence on gameplay ( in my opinion your map could be stamped) but could be a good graphic choice, in my opinion.
i did a little example for you on the jpg file.
Hope helpful ;)

TNBDS

Click image to enlarge.
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I noticed now that there're some visible blue lines near the bear.

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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby Merciless Wong on Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:56 am

Bonuses look right, ice cap adds a lot of impassability, sea route adds some variety.
Looks good from a gameplay viewpoint at a territory level.

I think the game will revolve around getting Qaasuitsup, Kujalleq and Pearyland to start.
Pearyland and Tunu or Qaasuitsup and Kujalleq or Kujalleq and Semersooq make good combos for second stage expansion.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:37 pm

thenobodies80
Only a suggestion about graphic. Kujalleq continent has a very different color on large map and small one.
This thing has not influence on gameplay ( in my opinion your map could be stamped) but could be a good graphic choice, in my opinion.
i did a little example for you on the jpg file.

Doooone.
I noticed now that there're some visible blue lines near the bear.
Fiiiiixed ;)
Merciless Wong
Bonuses look right, ice cap adds a lot of impassability, sea route adds some variety.
Looks good from a gameplay viewpoint at a territory level.
I think the game will revolve around getting Qaasuitsup, Kujalleq and Pearyland to start.
Pearyland and Tunu or Qaasuitsup and Kujalleq or Kujalleq and Semersooq make good combos for second stage expansion.

Thanks for the comment, Wong. That seems exactly right ;) (continued after nobodies's segment afterwards) …
(back to nobodies)
About gameplay no suggestions, i'm complitely agree with the actual gameplay.
… I'm satisfied with the gameplay unless someone else brings up another issue.

I've done the graphical changes, but I'm going to wait to post the next version until someone posts a GP issue for me to fix :)

.44

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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby aequitas08 on Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:24 pm

The gameplay looks finished. It is simple, straightforward, and appears well balanced.
Great work.
I'm reserving judgement on graphics until next update.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby iancanton on Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:09 am

at first glance, this map suffers from the obvious comparison with iceland (which is one of the best-looking maps on cc, so it's actually no disgrace).

Merciless Wong wrote:ice cap adds a lot of impassability

but not enough! it's wrong that u can attack using the ice cap routes as easily as attacking a neighbouring settlement in the same municipality. there might as well be three four-lane highways going through the ice cap. greenland has a great natural impassable and it will be a pity if we cut such big holes in it.

as an alternative, try making the ice cap routes into a neutral-starting mountain pass (or even two neutral-starting mountain passes) with -1 or -2 decay (similar to dust bowl - though the latter's decay territories don't start neutral), bordering only those 6 settlements shown by the dotted lines. this is because armies that stay on the ice cap will gradually lose soldiers through cold. the neutral start represents the fact that there is no route across the ice till a brave pioneering group makes one, at the risk of death.

ian. :)
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby MrBenn on Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:55 am

I like the idea of adding a killer neutral to the ice cap... if you're going to add one, I'd settle with 1 or 2 neutrals on it.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby gho on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:12 am

I like the killer neutrals on the ice cap.

Graphically I think this map peaked on page 3. The map looked icy, the water looked cold and the sea and continent names looked superb. I think it looked better than iceland. I think the map has taken a step back with its new water, new continent colours and pure white bear and currently looks like icelands poor cousin (though still better than alot of other maps out there). Then again I say this without reading all the comments of the last 7 pages, in which you've probably explained why you've made all the changes. If you have nothing better to do with your time maybe you could use the page 3 graphics style with the current territory layout and minimap to see how it would turn out.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v16 on p1&10 › any gameplay concerns?

Postby Merciless Wong on Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:30 pm

You could have 3 ice cap territories, one for each route with a decay factor. If you connect them all to one neutral territory,
the ice cap would become a pretty fast shortcut between each end of the island.

You could name each route separately after famous Greenland explorers.

I wouldn't make the neutrals strong though (1-3 armies max). I suspect that strong neutrals would actually partition the map in the early game and lead to the niche positions being very strong in multiplayer. I don't think they have to be killer neutrals though, the decay repesents the pain from weather and the neutrals the cost of opening the route. Killer neutrals would imply the expedition needs to be repeated once its been mapped.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:11 pm

gho
Really? I mean, I see what you say about some of the graphic things, but overall I think v17 (later in the post) is a much more developed map than that version. So, I am going to continue this one, unless there's much against it.
iancanton, MrBenn, Merciless Wong
Thanks a lot for that, ian. I've added that, they start with 2 neutrals and decay -1 per round. See below
I also found one Greenlandic explorer, but I don't think that'll cut it. I do like the idea, if anyone can help there ;)

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Updates:
  • decaying ice territories
  • small graphic changes

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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby el-presidente on Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:24 pm

That was wierd, It updated the first post while I was looking at itand I didn't notice for like 30 seconds. I am not very aware of things I guess.

Anyways, I like the ice routes but they look kinda wierd. I don't like how B gets wider at the one end. It should stay level-ish from where it is under the circle, then curve up at the end to meet the lower part that comes out of kullorsqua. The graphics keep getting betterevery edit!




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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:26 pm

I think your ice routes should be as thin, and maybe uniformed as possible, becuase i don't think that an ice route would take up that much room, for peopel to walk/maybe drive over.


Edit, just thinking, maybe you could have all of the ice routes connect some how, i don't know if this would harm the gameplay too much
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:50 pm

Kujalleq is perfect now!
Good work

The new big ice block you added to explain the ice routes is too big in my opinion, in this way your right lower part of the map is too full.

A final small thing, a nitpick. A small white line in the upper part of your map.
Point the "ne" of Haffner word and go north, you can see the small white line ;)

=D> you're one of the best new mapmakers...good new blood.

TNBDS

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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:25 pm

The Ice Route idea is a great one, defiantly a keeper
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby DarthBlood on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:45 pm

why is lanyard's name on the map? isn't he like...banned?
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:47 pm

DarthBlood wrote:why is lanyard's name on the map? isn't he like...banned?

a) he's doing the XML
b) he's not banned, he's freemium

I'm working on all your suggestions, keep 'em coming!

.44
Last edited by the.killing.44 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:09 pm

I think killer neutral would be better than decay on the ice routes. Ice routes are something you pass over quickly, not something you hold onto for periods of time. But I agree that they should be made thinner.

This is looking good :)
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby Merciless Wong on Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:56 pm

Happy with killer neutral or neutral, but killer neutral would imply you have to keep clearing the area, again and again.

On names - May I suggest Glaciers of Greenland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:G ... _Greenland)
-Knud Rasmussen Glacier
-Chamberlain Glacier
-Harald Moltke Glacier

Also famous explorers of Greenland (some of whom are Danish, see wikipedia)
-Harald Moltke
-Knud Rasmussen
-Peter Freucher
-Ludwig Mylius-Erichsen
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:04 pm

Merciless Wong wrote:Happy with killer neutral or neutral, but killer neutral would imply you have to keep clearing the area, again and again.

On names - May I suggest Glaciers of Greenland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:G ... _Greenland)
-Knud Rasmussen Glacier
-Chamberlain Glacier
-Harald Moltke Glacier

Also famous explorers of Greenland (some of whom are Danish, see wikipedia)
-Harald Moltke
-Knud Rasmussen
-Peter Freucher
-Ludwig Mylius-Erichsen

i think not the names of glaciers, becuase it wouldn't make much sense to pass over the glacier itself, these are routes, through the glacier, the explorers might work, but i don't really like that either.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby Merciless Wong on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:08 pm

How about Inuit Legends then?

Sedna (Goddess of the Sea)
Kajutaijuq (a huge female spirit with no body).
Kivioq (an Inuk adventurer who travels across the Arctic).

http://www.uoguelph.ca/msac/Enlegend.htm
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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&10 › new layout, who's got suggs?

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:03 am

Update time: Version 18 (Large)

I've decided (with the consent of some others) to keep the ice names as "Ice Route #", first for XML ordering sake, and secondly for uniformity. After speaking at length with thenobodies80 (thanks ;) ), I've also changed the layout of the map, and just given my name at the bottom which offers more room, as lany has bailed and no one (not RL people either) has heard from him for a week now … I'll have the XML up this weekend, and one with the co-ords on after the GP stamp. :-^
So without further ado…
Click image to enlarge.
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Updates:
  • changed layout
  • small things

To-Do:
  • figure out what to do

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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&11 › new layout & ice routes

Postby SultanOfSurreal on Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:55 pm

I'm not digging the look of the ice routes. They don't look natural, somehow... perhaps keep them as the dotted lines they were before they were territories, just with army circles and a label over them. Or some other pattern that looks similar, like footprints or something that indicates it's just an attack route. This would be especially good if you go with the killer neutral idea.

Also I think the routes should be labeled in ascending order, A in the south, C in the north. It seems more natural this way, as the route in the south would, in real life, likely be the first discovered and the most used.

And finally, the tiniest of tiny nitpicks, the phrase "Ice Routes" in the legend shouldn't be in quotes. It just looks and reads better that way.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&11 › new layout & ice routes

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:59 am

SultanOfSurreal wrote:I'm not digging the look of the ice routes. They don't look natural, somehow... perhaps keep them as the dotted lines they were before they were territories, just with army circles and a label over them. Or some other pattern that looks similar, like footprints or something that indicates it's just an attack route. This would be especially good if you go with the killer neutral idea.

Also I think the routes should be labeled in ascending order, A in the south, C in the north. It seems more natural this way, as the route in the south would, in real life, likely be the first discovered and the most used.

And finally, the tiniest of tiny nitpicks, the phrase "Ice Routes" in the legend shouldn't be in quotes. It just looks and reads better that way.


I agree...dotted lines and army circles looks better. Perhaps a two pointed arrow if you do not want the dots...but I think the dots look better.

However I think the route name order is fine as it is.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&11 › new layout & ice routes

Postby gimil on Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:25 am

I am in agreement killing that the ice routes do not look all that good. I think thou that it is because the lines creating the ice paths are much straighter than any other border line of the map. Perhaps then need to be alot thinner and alot more random rather than straight like a real path. I am assuming that the ice path goes over a few miles but even or ice the path through wouldn't always be a straight line. Not sure if I explained so that you would understand or not thou :P

I also don't like the glow around 'ice routes lose one troop per round.' It is a little to sharp and I think it need to be alot for spread and feel alot more like a gradient.

Other than those points killing this is a fine map and I can't wait for you to get the gameplay stamp as I would be honered to stamp this one :)
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