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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby DarthBlood on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:45 pm

why is lanyard's name on the map? isn't he like...banned?
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:47 pm

DarthBlood wrote:why is lanyard's name on the map? isn't he like...banned?

a) he's doing the XML
b) he's not banned, he's freemium

I'm working on all your suggestions, keep 'em coming!

.44
Last edited by the.killing.44 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby ZeakCytho on Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:09 pm

I think killer neutral would be better than decay on the ice routes. Ice routes are something you pass over quickly, not something you hold onto for periods of time. But I agree that they should be made thinner.

This is looking good :)
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby Merciless Wong on Mon Apr 06, 2009 4:56 pm

Happy with killer neutral or neutral, but killer neutral would imply you have to keep clearing the area, again and again.

On names - May I suggest Glaciers of Greenland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:G ... _Greenland)
-Knud Rasmussen Glacier
-Chamberlain Glacier
-Harald Moltke Glacier

Also famous explorers of Greenland (some of whom are Danish, see wikipedia)
-Harald Moltke
-Knud Rasmussen
-Peter Freucher
-Ludwig Mylius-Erichsen
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby LED ZEPPELINER on Mon Apr 06, 2009 8:04 pm

Merciless Wong wrote:Happy with killer neutral or neutral, but killer neutral would imply you have to keep clearing the area, again and again.

On names - May I suggest Glaciers of Greenland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:G ... _Greenland)
-Knud Rasmussen Glacier
-Chamberlain Glacier
-Harald Moltke Glacier

Also famous explorers of Greenland (some of whom are Danish, see wikipedia)
-Harald Moltke
-Knud Rasmussen
-Peter Freucher
-Ludwig Mylius-Erichsen

i think not the names of glaciers, becuase it wouldn't make much sense to pass over the glacier itself, these are routes, through the glacier, the explorers might work, but i don't really like that either.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v17 on p1&10 › decaying ice routes

Postby Merciless Wong on Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:08 pm

How about Inuit Legends then?

Sedna (Goddess of the Sea)
Kajutaijuq (a huge female spirit with no body).
Kivioq (an Inuk adventurer who travels across the Arctic).

http://www.uoguelph.ca/msac/Enlegend.htm
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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&10 › new layout, who's got suggs?

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:03 am

Update time: Version 18 (Large)

I've decided (with the consent of some others) to keep the ice names as "Ice Route #", first for XML ordering sake, and secondly for uniformity. After speaking at length with thenobodies80 (thanks ;) ), I've also changed the layout of the map, and just given my name at the bottom which offers more room, as lany has bailed and no one (not RL people either) has heard from him for a week now … I'll have the XML up this weekend, and one with the co-ords on after the GP stamp. :-^
So without further ado…
Click image to enlarge.
image

Updates:
  • changed layout
  • small things

To-Do:
  • figure out what to do

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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&11 › new layout & ice routes

Postby SultanOfSurreal on Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:55 pm

I'm not digging the look of the ice routes. They don't look natural, somehow... perhaps keep them as the dotted lines they were before they were territories, just with army circles and a label over them. Or some other pattern that looks similar, like footprints or something that indicates it's just an attack route. This would be especially good if you go with the killer neutral idea.

Also I think the routes should be labeled in ascending order, A in the south, C in the north. It seems more natural this way, as the route in the south would, in real life, likely be the first discovered and the most used.

And finally, the tiniest of tiny nitpicks, the phrase "Ice Routes" in the legend shouldn't be in quotes. It just looks and reads better that way.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&11 › new layout & ice routes

Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Apr 11, 2009 7:59 am

SultanOfSurreal wrote:I'm not digging the look of the ice routes. They don't look natural, somehow... perhaps keep them as the dotted lines they were before they were territories, just with army circles and a label over them. Or some other pattern that looks similar, like footprints or something that indicates it's just an attack route. This would be especially good if you go with the killer neutral idea.

Also I think the routes should be labeled in ascending order, A in the south, C in the north. It seems more natural this way, as the route in the south would, in real life, likely be the first discovered and the most used.

And finally, the tiniest of tiny nitpicks, the phrase "Ice Routes" in the legend shouldn't be in quotes. It just looks and reads better that way.


I agree...dotted lines and army circles looks better. Perhaps a two pointed arrow if you do not want the dots...but I think the dots look better.

However I think the route name order is fine as it is.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v18 on p1&11 › new layout & ice routes

Postby gimil on Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:25 am

I am in agreement killing that the ice routes do not look all that good. I think thou that it is because the lines creating the ice paths are much straighter than any other border line of the map. Perhaps then need to be alot thinner and alot more random rather than straight like a real path. I am assuming that the ice path goes over a few miles but even or ice the path through wouldn't always be a straight line. Not sure if I explained so that you would understand or not thou :P

I also don't like the glow around 'ice routes lose one troop per round.' It is a little to sharp and I think it need to be alot for spread and feel alot more like a gradient.

Other than those points killing this is a fine map and I can't wait for you to get the gameplay stamp as I would be honered to stamp this one :)
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Re: Greenland [D] - v19 on p1&11 › back to

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:25 pm

Thanks for your comments with concerns/support, sultan, Ruben, and gimil :)

I've addressed all your issues I believe, save the order of the Ice Routes. The only gameplay issue I see is the killer vs. decay argument, on which I like the decay better (and so do you, ian).
Graphically, the note on the right — I like the glow and the gradient (which is the same as the one on the map overall), and I'm sure you'll find something else gimil ;)

So, here's Large Version 19.
Click image to enlarge.
image

Updates:
  • old routes
  • changed the note on the right (glow with noise & gradient to match the map's one)
To-Do
:-^

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Re: Greenland [D] - v19 on p1&11 › back to the old routes

Postby gimil on Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:44 pm

The glow looks much better now buddy. In terms of the ice routes I think I have an idea of something that would look good, if you don't mine uploading you PSD I can show you an example (can't really explain it).

Other than that I think I would stamp it if it eas nearer the time =D>
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Re: Greenland [D] - v20 on p1&11 › gimil! and the small

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:49 am

So I've been talking with gimil for a bit, which brings to to the update with the small version! and a big thanks for the routes that appear in Version 20 — L & S

Large
Click image to enlarge.
image

Small
Click image to enlarge.
image

Updates:
  • after talking with gimil, he came up with these connections and I think they're great, others?
  • note on the left
  • decreased opacity of Ice Routes note
  • small version!

To-Do:
  • clean up the lower left corner?
  • GP stamp?

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Re: Greenland [D] - v20 on p1&11 › gimil! and the small

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:45 pm

Gimil you're mad, you have to sleep sometimes... :lol:
I like this map!
No concerns for me, i don't like very much the gradient on "ice routes lose ..." as you know. (late night discussions... #-o )
For me you're ready both for gameplay and graphic stamps
Wonderful work =D>

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Re: Greenland [D] - v20 on p1&11 › gimil! and the small

Postby oaktown on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:55 pm

dog sleds on the ice routes! dog sleds on the ice routes!
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Re: Greenland [D] - v20 on p1&11 › gimil! and the small

Postby sailorseal on Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:57 pm

oaktown wrote:dog sleds on the ice routes! dog sleds on the ice routes!

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Re: Greenland [D] - v20 on p1&11 › gimil! and the small

Postby iancanton on Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:29 pm

now that the sea route goes to nuuk, the shape of itilleq looks totally implausible. make it stop short of the east coast, to give an extra border to kujalleq. this region, the only one with a decent number of people, ought to have a big bonus.

ian. :)
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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:08 pm

iancanton
now that the sea route goes to nuuk, the shape of itilleq looks totally implausible. make it stop short of the east coast, to give an extra border to kujalleq. this region, the only one with a decent number of people, ought to have a big bonus.

Mmkay …

Version 21 (Large) — Apr. 13th
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Version 21 (Small) — Apr. 13th
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  • border n' bonus changes

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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:39 pm

Dog sleds, yes.

Though I love the graphics of the map---the Glaciers still seem to oddly clash with the rest of the thematic graphics...


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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby saaimen on Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:21 pm

Didn't ian say east coast? :-k
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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon Apr 13, 2009 5:25 pm

AndyDufresne
Though I love the graphics of the map---the Glaciers still seem to oddly clash with the rest of the thematic graphics...
I do see what you mean, but I don't see a different fix from what I currently have, and I think it's fine as is.
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Didn't ian say east coast? :-k
Hmm, yes good point. But hold off on GP discussion because I'm discussing with other people (namely ian and nobodies) about bonuses … expect isortoq to be in cut off from the east and the Kujalleq and Sermersooq bonuses to be switched…

Thanks (and I'm working on the dog sleds ;) )
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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby SultanOfSurreal on Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:25 pm

I still prefer the straight dashed line. The current ice route graphics still look unnatural. The dashed line conveys the idea of the routes as temporary passages much better, I think. And it makes the map look cleaner in general. More polished. The current ice paths are little more than random squibbles that are very jarring...
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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby gho on Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:56 am

Why dont you make the sea route between have a negative 1 bonus as well. Im sure the seas there are treacherous making it totally plausible. I also think you should drop the bonus of kujalleq to 3, 4 is quite generous.
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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby iancanton on Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:15 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:saaimenDidn't ian say east coast? :-k
Hmm, yes good point.

itilleq is a west coast village that is part of qeqqata municipality, along with sisimiut town and the villages of sarfannguit and kangerlussuaq, the last being inland from the others. since sisimiut and itilleq are supposed to be in the same municipality (qeqqata), we'll need some shifting of borders or renaming of regions.

http://www.sisimiut.gl/Tourism/Towns/Itilleq.aspx
http://www.qeqqata.gl/

Itilleq means “the hollow” and this village is located about 50 km south of Sisimiut in the head of the Itilleq Fjord. Around 130 people live here, who are mainly engaged in hunting and fishing.

the.killing.44 wrote:Qeqqata seems impossible to hold with all the necessary bordering territories. How would you feel about moving Ice Route C to Sisimiut instead of Upernavik, reducing a border and easing up on that bonus, which is hard-pressed for a 4 anyway?

kangerlussuaq, as well as being one of the few inland villages (almost directly east from sisimiut), is (comparatively!) well-known as the site of the main international airport in greenland, so is a logical choice for ice route c to start. incidentally, ilulissat is south of upernavik, not north of it. adding regions to qeqqata like this gives us the chance to split this bonus zone into two, giving us a small bonus that is not in the extreme north: sisimiut, kangerlussuaq, itilleq and a new region (the town of maniitsoq, perhaps?) are qeqqata, while the regions north of sisimiut comprise disko bay.

http://www.greenlandguide.gl/towns_regions.htm

the.killing.44 wrote:okay, so we now we have:
Sermersooq — 7 terts, 5 borders (northernmost can be easily expanded though), 5 attackers (one is decay, counts for 1/2) — +4?
Kujalleq — 7 terts, 3 borders, 4 attackers (all separate continents) — +5?

sermersooq is similar to classic europe, but has even more borders, so +6 is justified. although kujalleq has most of the population in real life, we can't really give more than the existing +4 because it's a much easier hold than sermersooq.

the eastern half of the map looks pretty good. maybe tunu can be increased to +4 when compared with peary land, since it's so much bigger.

to go with the dog sleds, how about putting in an inuksuk on each ice route to show the way?

http://www.cbc.ca/sevenwonders/wonder_r ... uksuk.html

ian. :)
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Re: Greenland [D] - v21 on p1&12 › touched up GP…

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:52 am

Time to get to all this feedback … I'll post an update later.
SultanofSurreal
I still prefer the straight dashed line. The current ice route graphics still look unnatural. The dashed line conveys the idea of the routes as temporary passages much better, I think. And it makes the map look cleaner in general. More polished. The current ice paths are little more than random squibbles that are very jarring...
I like these routes better, and I've gotten more support for them than the others, so I think i'm sticking with them.
gho
Why dont you make the sea route between have a negative 1 bonus as well. Im sure the seas there are treacherous making it totally plausible. I also think you should drop the bonus of kujalleq to 3, 4 is quite generous.
This is what I said to someone:
About gho's idea … I'm not sure. I like it in theory, but I kinda feel that Kujalleq needs that route without any decay, just to even maintain that +4.
If I made it decay, then Kujalleq would have to be a +4. I'd like more opinions on this, maybe a poll?

iancanton
i prefer option 2, with itilleq being moved to qeqqata, plus illorsuit disappearing and kangerlussuaq being added to qeqqata as an inland region (so that it has four regions).
So, I think that's where I'm going. Itilleq will move up above Nuuk, but stretch a bit to border Kapisillit. Isortoq will also move up to border Ammassalik, and Nuuk will extend a bit more west. Illorsuit's gone, and Kangerlussuaq is added between Upernavik, which stretches up to where Kullorsuaq is now and Ice Route C goes from Kangerlussuaq.
to go with the dog sleds, how about putting in an inuksuk on each ice route to show the way?
Wouldn't it just look like a gray barrier from a bird's-eye view?

Thanks for all the feedback! Update up later … I know it's kind of hard without a visual image but look at my paragraph under ian's comment and try to image it :)

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