First Nations of North America [Quenched]

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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Tisha on Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:18 am

is there any way in xml to have a random territory start neutral?
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby ender516 on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:53 am

Tisha wrote:is there any way in xml to have a random territory start neutral?

Only by having the right number of territories, I think. The only territories that become neutral randomly are those left over after dividing the non-start positions among the players (and of course the one-third share that go to neutral in a 1v1 game). So, a map with a prime number of territories will always have some neutrals. As long as the number of territories is not divisible by 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8, then there will always be some neutrals, no matter how many players there are.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Tisha on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:05 am

What would be the one neutral then? because I see nothing I would like to make a permanent neutral..
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby natty dread on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:35 am

Tisha wrote:What would be the one neutral then?


Of course the best territory of the map, so no one gets it :D
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby ender516 on Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:56 pm

Tisha wrote:What would be the one neutral then? because I see nothing I would like to make a permanent neutral..

I can only suggest what I said before, here: make Nimiipuu the one neutral. Then, there is no first turn advantage and, perhaps less importantly, no chance of getting the Plateau bonus on the drop.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby MrBenn on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:25 am

If you're going to force a single neutral, if you wanted to, you could reduce it to a neutral 2 rather than a neutral 3.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Tisha on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:59 am

ender516 wrote:
Tisha wrote:What would be the one neutral then? because I see nothing I would like to make a permanent neutral..

I can only suggest what I said before, here: make Nimiipuu the one neutral. Then, there is no first turn advantage and, perhaps less importantly, no chance of getting the Plateau bonus on the drop.

Nimiipuu would just make it easier for certain other bonuses to be held

might be different if I make it a two
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby ender516 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:00 am

Tisha wrote:
ender516 wrote:
Tisha wrote:What would be the one neutral then? because I see nothing I would like to make a permanent neutral..

I can only suggest what I said before, here: make Nimiipuu the one neutral. Then, there is no first turn advantage and, perhaps less importantly, no chance of getting the Plateau bonus on the drop.

Nimiipuu would just make it easier for certain other bonuses to be held

might be different if I make it a two

Heck, if the point is to prevent the first turn advantage and the Plateau bonus on the drop, you could make it a one! That way, it affords only minimal protection to any other bonus, but still does all that stuff you want from a neutral.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby pirateXbrian on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:54 am

Love it and don't change much please =D>

Only thing I would add is some "Canoe/Warship" routes, can be a little tricky making your way from top of the map to bottom......maybe in some of the hard to hold territories you can add "warrior societies/states" that where known for their war skills/chiefs and add like another bonus if you hold all 3 you get bonus...but keeping in mind there should be easier and harder ones to hold....and getting an easy one does not increase your winning chances that much as exaggerated by others...I think thats one of the best features of the map, lots of territories, bonuses, and options for victory! As for the north, well maybe change the names, but what could be done really....Inuk is Inuk right? Think you did an awesome job. But for peep who can't see the map...clickable maps works, never have a issue there, you can clearly see the divisions between territories....and if you don't use the scripts....like i had to at first....any new map seemed hard to follow (unless very basic) until i played the map a couple times....But if there is some way of changing (no real suggestion, lol) the way the intial troops get disbursed, that woiuld be good to; sometimes they just don't get disbursed evenly on team/multi player games.

All-in-all its great and don't tweak much as you can't satisfy everyone :-$
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby hiddendragon on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:10 pm

I love this map, don't change it Tisha. Remember when players wanted to rearrange it earlier with names and all, myself included, but you stuck to your guns and made a great map. I would hope we get it out of beta soon so I can begin using it for clan wars :D

PS, I haven't always won because of niimipu./salish bonus area
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby natty dread on Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:52 pm

This a very fun map. I've just started playing on it, now that I got premium... there may be some imbalances in gameplay, but I'll have to finish my games before I know for sure.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:05 am

natty_dread wrote:... there may be some imbalances in gameplay, but I'll have to finish my games before I know for sure.


* sigh*
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Kabanellas on Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:40 am

Must say I do love this map!

I'd just plant 2 neutral troops in 1 region of those 3 regions territories. Greenland, Great Basin and Caribbean have a big chance of being dealt in a lucky drop.

Great work Tisha.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Incandenza on Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:42 am

According to the drop calculator, the only real issue I can see with the map is that, in a 2p or 3p game, a player has a 22.53% chance of dropping Plateau. The 3-terit small bonuses have a 9.72%, which is just below my personal kneejerk 10% threshold. I kinda like the idea of making Nimiipuu a 1, it kills a couple birds with one stone, plus it provides minimal protection for bordering bonuses (a 1 is a lot different than a 2 in terms of defense).
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Tisha on Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:35 pm

so making NIIMIIPUUUU a neutral one.. anything else?
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby ender516 on Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:58 pm

Tisha wrote:so making NIIMIIPUUUU a neutral one.. anything else?

Looks like you're having a little trouble with your vowels. ;)
Seriously, though, I think that change would make this map pretty much perfect.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby iancanton on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:56 am

Incandenza wrote:I kinda like the idea of making Nimiipuu a 1, it kills a couple birds with one stone, plus it provides minimal protection for bordering bonuses (a 1 is a lot different than a 2 in terms of defense).

Tisha wrote:so making NIIMIIPUUUU a neutral one.. anything else?

this is an excellent suggestion. the single neutral prevents someone from starting with the bonus, but a player can bring it into play immediately without committing a heap of troops.

iancanton wrote:u can reduce the number of resultant random neutrals by making tunimiut and taino start neutral too, so that no-one starts with greenland or circum-caribbean. the total number of random-starting regions will then be 69, meaning that 1v1 games start with 23 regions each, 2v2 with 17 each and 3v3 with 11 each.

Tisha wrote:a three territory bonuses really needs to start neutral in a 72 territory map? come on guys...

the 3-region bonuses do not need to start neutral on this large map. however, if nimiipuu starts neutral, then there will be at least 2 additional random neutrals floating around except in the rare 5-player and 7-player settings, so u might as well put them where they'll be doing something useful. if u make it so that tunimiut and taino are each neutral 1 instead of neutral 3, then u'll actually reduce the number of neutral troops on the board. although taino is more important than tunimiut, since circum-caribbean is a +2 bonus, the influence of both of these is secondary to that of nimiipuu, which is the one that needs to be fixed. i'd prefer all three to start as neutral but, if u choose to code only one fixed neutral region, then let it be nimiipuu.

ian. :)
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby 2dimes on Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:42 pm

So, ah... no one from saskatchewan has been by to comment then?
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby wolfpack0530 on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:16 pm

I dont think that dropping the plateau is that big of a deal. ive dropped it 50% of the games I have played, and felt no real advantage to having it. However, keeping enough forces around it to keep it is a headache sometimes. I think making nimipuu a neutral 1, or 2, makes it an easier card spot for those going first, but making it a 3 gives border protection for other bonuses. I say leave it alone.

On a map that big, 1 army doesnt make a huge difference. Just roll one less '1' during the entire course of the game and call it even :).
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby natty dread on Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:17 am

I feel like the Great Basin and Plateau bonuses could almost be combined. They are almost always held together anyway...
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Tisha on Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:15 pm

I'm not combining them
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby MrBenn on Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:11 pm

I know that there has been some discussion about adding a neutral, but I'm not convinced that anything needs to be changed...
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Tisha on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:03 am

MrBenn wrote:I know that there has been some discussion about adding a neutral, but I'm not convinced that anything needs to be changed...

I've played it plenty, and have seen no real advantage gained..

What people are telling me is they would like the starting numbers different in team games.

like doubles.. first team to go gets 18 territories
triples.. first team gets 12 territories

One less territory would get rid of that.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby Incandenza on Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:33 am

Yeah, that's really the main thing... and as always, it's not a deal-breaker, the map could certainly move out of beta as is. But removing the first-mover from both dubs and trips would be preferable, and if that can be achieved by tossing a neutral 1 (or several) onto easily-dropped bonuses, so much the better.
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Re: First Nations of North America

Postby MrBenn on Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:20 pm

Right - I'd assumed that people were getting concerned about the small bonuses, without considering the "golden" numbers ;-)

so making NIIMIIPUUUU a neutral one.. anything else?


So you're going to add a neutral that will start with a single army.... right?
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