WWII-Stalingrad [QUENCHED]

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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 14, 2009 6:37 pm

Incandenza wrote:I see where you're going with it, but consider, instead of a bunch of starting neutrals, make the city terits along the river suffer decay (maybe just the infantry) as a means of simulating the harsh conditions.

yeh, can do that.

Also, I'm still not sure how the airstrip works. It sounds like you're proposing a situation where I, holding a Russian air force terit, could bombard my opponent's airstrip terit(s), but then they respawn for my opponent? I'm pretty sure that's not possible, nor does it even seem like a great idea.


Well, my initial idea was that as per the RL war:
1. the aircraft would respawn each round with a number of armies (perhaps 4) so that they could be used to simulate air raids.
2. the russian airforce could attack any german aircarft at any time
3. the german aircraft are attackable if you have any infantry positions bordering the airfield (more towards end of battle)
In a sense, if you had arrived close to the end of the game, you'd have to have a massive attack on the airforce in the last round to win the map.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 14, 2009 6:54 pm

oaktown wrote:likes: a no-region map; let the players slug it out. And I like the idea of units attacking each other based on unit type, though i think right now it may be too wide open.

OK, but remember there were a huge number of german troops involved in this front. It would be nice if that could be relflected.

dislikes: the territory names; with everything starting "62nd XXXX" everybody is going to screw up placements and attacks. Bombs attacking territories and occupying them - seems like "bombs" should use a bombardment style attack. Same with anybody attacking the planes from the ground.

So you want a bombardment capacity from the bombs to other units, and from the units on the ground to the planes?

questions: the way the planes are represented... can they attack each other?

I hadn't considered that. Only that Russian aircraft could attack german aircraft.
There are two terts bordering the Kalach Airfield where anyone holding the infantry on those terts could take out a number of aircraft at the beginning of the game if they're lucky enough to get those in the drop. Those two could be increased to four if needed for gameplay balance.

Ferry lines: is that two crossing lines at the bottom part of the river? And the roads aren't a gameplay element, right?

Ferry crossing lines will be converted to play terts.
Road (those are rail lines) won't be a gameplay element for attack but could hold extra bonus from attack.

neutral: many elements of the image are very 'cairnswk,' which is both good and bad... the brick building in the bottom right corner looks like you and looks good,but other elements of the map could be right out of the cairns metro map (landforms, color). I'd love to see the map capture the feel of how miserable this battle must have been, as well as further reflect the fact that this is an urban landscape. Right now I'm a maybe, but I could easily be pushed to a yes.

Early days, i hear you, let's see where i can go with this one.

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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad

Postby cairnswk on Thu May 14, 2009 11:32 pm

Version 4.

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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V4(p4)

Postby samuelc812 on Fri May 15, 2009 12:17 am

It's looking nice cairns :)

I'm not a big fan of the new font for the titles "Impassables", "Attacks" and "Bonuses" and the Airfield, i can't even make out what it says sorry :oops:

Also the Armour Division and Artillery symbols are grey? Unlike the Airforce, Bombs and Infantry which are black, is there a reason for this?

I like the underground aspect of the map, it will make for some challenging gameplay, nice :)

--Sam
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V4(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Fri May 15, 2009 3:03 am

samuelc812 wrote:It's looking nice cairns :)

I'm not a big fan of the new font for the titles "Impassables", "Attacks" and "Bonuses" and the Airfield, i can't even make out what it says sorry :oops:

Also the Armour Division and Artillery symbols are grey? Unlike the Airforce, Bombs and Infantry which are black, is there a reason for this?

I like the underground aspect of the map, it will make for some challenging gameplay, nice :)

--Sam


Thanks Sam.
I'm thinking i might take this one over to either Corel Draw or Illustrator, but am having probs loading issues with Illustrator and it's taking time to sort it out with Adobe.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V4(p4)

Postby Fireside Poet on Fri May 15, 2009 11:23 am

Might I recommend the font called 1942 Report?
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V4(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Fri May 15, 2009 1:07 pm

Fireside Poet wrote:Might I recommend the font called 1942 Report?

I'll check it out FP, thanks :)
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V5

Postby cairnswk on Fri May 15, 2009 8:02 pm

Version 5...conversion to Corel Draw.
Not quite finished yet.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V5

Postby cairnswk on Sat May 16, 2009 4:05 am

OK. I've converted this to Coreldraw, so that i won't have any issues with line sizes.
Coreldraw allows hairline similar to PS, but most of this is in vector imaging.

Some comments on gameplay development would be appreciated, graphics will be covered as we go along.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V5(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Sat May 16, 2009 6:59 pm

Version 6.

Moving deck chairs....in the legend.

There are two fonts in the legend.
Left (as with the tert names) is the Atlanctic line font.
Right is the 1942 Font in the legend, and on the bonuses up top right.
Neither of these fonts can be bolded but they can have glow.

Are they suitable?

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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V6(p4)

Postby pamoa on Sun May 17, 2009 12:07 pm

ok cairns big mayhem here but nice map indeed

first correct me if I'm wrong
each bomb territory is under german and russian aircraft attack
and each aircraft is under any opponent artillery fire
by holding 100th division (by example) you get a +3 bonus and 16th a +2 am I right

questions
is vvs2 (right on the map shouldn't be vvs1) attackable 62nd chulkov
what's the use of having differentiated infantry and armoured units as they have the same power

from a graphic point of view
to reduce noise and help players you should find a way of combinig the army symbol with army number
by getting rid of the circle and making some rectangle next to it like "X___"
your trees are too repetitive make 3 or four of them them put them in a random order to get a more "natural" effect
and make a vertical trunk not that triangle
the difference between the thin line of infantry and the black surface of other symbol make them feel like 2 separate graphic language make infantry "cross" thicker
german artillery symbols are weird and on the top some symbols are larger

well a lot of comments I hope not too offensive
keep going on =D>
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V6(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Sun May 17, 2009 3:53 pm

pamoa wrote:ok cairns big mayhem here but nice map indeed

first correct me if I'm wrong
Thanks for dropping in.
each bomb territory is under german and russian aircraft attack
yes at present. that may change to create some balance.
and each aircraft is under any opponent artillery fire
well, we can have that, or you can have it so that only neighbouring infantry can attack each aircraft.
by holding 100th division (by example) you get a +3 bonus and 16th a +2 am I right
yes.

questions
is vvs2 (right on the map shouldn't be vvs1) attackable 62nd chulkov
yes. oned of those whould be VVS1
what's the use of having differentiated infantry and armoured units as they have the same power
like i said, that's what discussing gameplay is about, its changeable if you want. what is your proposition?
from a graphic point of view
to reduce noise and help players you should find a way of combinig the army symbol with army number
by getting rid of the circle and making some rectangle next to it like "X___"

OK i see what you're saying. that'll mean those unit icons become much larger, but it could be worth a go.

your trees are too repetitive make 3 or four of them them put them in a random order to get a more "natural" effect
and make a vertical trunk not that triangle
yep still working on those.
the difference between the thin line of infantry and the black surface of other symbol make them feel like 2 separate graphic language make infantry "cross" thicker
still experimenting with those.
german artillery symbols are weird and on the top some symbols are larger
ok, well they'll all be larger if your armies alongside works.

well a lot of comments I hope not too offensive
keep going on =D>
far from offensive. some good suggestions. thanks :)
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7

Postby cairnswk on Sun May 17, 2009 4:57 pm

Version 7.
1. Army shadows changed to pamoa's suggestions (i think that what he was talking about)
2. V V S 2 (right) changed to V V S 1
3. Bottom left you'll see some changes happening to the trees, with shadow casting.
4. V V S 3 has different territory colour as I'm going to experiement with some colour changes here.

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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V6(p4)

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun May 17, 2009 5:01 pm

New circles/squares and trees are oh-so-much better. Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. Are you going to add textures? Forgive me if you've already said this, but textures and a difference between the land and water (i.e. drop shadow — some way to convey elevation) is really needed.

v3 I liked, v4 not-so-much, but v7 this has come on really strong. Nicely done — I'll look at gameplay another time.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V6(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Sun May 17, 2009 5:06 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:....Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. ....
.44

Already stated that this font can't be bolded.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V6(p4)

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun May 17, 2009 5:07 pm

cairnswk wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:....Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. ....
.44

Already stated that this font can't be bolded.

Faux bold it? You could do that in PS then transfer in — even saving the text as a .png and bringing it in would work.

.44
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V6(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Sun May 17, 2009 5:09 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
cairnswk wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:....Bolding the 1942 font text would probably increase the readability. ....
.44

Already stated that this font can't be bolded.

Faux bold it? You could do that in PS then transfer in — even saving the text as a .png and bringing it in would work.

.44

i don't have PS. this map is being rendered in Coreldraw, and i can't use Illustrator at present as it won't load properly.
I'll continue to see what is possible, though.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7(p4)

Postby Fireside Poet on Sun May 17, 2009 5:17 pm

That font fits perfect ... just needs a little darkening and it's set. =D> I'll look over the rest of the map when I get more time.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7(p4)

Postby the.killing.44 on Sun May 17, 2009 5:31 pm

Image

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Faux bolded. Scale and do whatever as you please — they're all PNGs. I apologize if the glows aren't the right color. Hope this helps…

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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7

Postby cairnswk on Sun May 17, 2009 7:44 pm

Current Version 7.
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the.killing.44 wrote:Faux bolded. Scale and do whatever as you please — they're all PNGs. I apologize if the glows aren't the right color. Hope this helps…
.44

I'll look into whatever i can .44, but making no promises.

Fireside Poet wrote:That font fits perfect ... just needs a little darkening and it's set. =D> I'll look over the rest of the map when I get more time.

So are you suggesting this font just for the legend or the entire map. i think the entire map would be a mistake, and even parts of the legend might be impossible where there is extended but small text.
Let me look at what is achievable without jumping in here, and i think others might have an opinion also eh?
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7(p4)

Postby Fireside Poet on Sun May 17, 2009 10:44 pm

In my opinion, the font looks perfect where it is at and I agree that map-wide usage would not work. I am sure there will be some other opinions on it though.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7(p4)

Postby pamoa on Mon May 18, 2009 3:07 am

font:
maybe just use a simple courrier font bolded in the legend and only for some larger title your 1942 font
I prefer it to the atlantic line one

graphics:
army symbol yes something like this don't you find your map easier to read like this?
maybe being more creative by blending army number in the symbol (I'll send you an example of what I mean latter)
trees with shadow much much better
maybe as suggested add some dropping shadow to the river sides
both will make your map more living
maybe also some ground texture like the snow you had in army circle

gameplay:
I'll discuss it latter
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7(p4)

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 18, 2009 5:42 am

please guys. get on with the gameplay now. this is more important than graphics issues, :) right now.
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V7(p4)

Postby pamoa on Mon May 18, 2009 8:12 am

1st suggestion another way of using aircraft ?
what if you get rid of the strange bombs attacking armies and make
aircraft can bombard any city position
artillery can bombard any aircraft ennemies
and then create two or three german HQ that can attack some or all german aircrafts

2nd suggestion
artillery can only bombard enemy infantry and artillery (also aircrafts)
not armoured units as they were less affected by artillery

3rd suggestion
armoured units get an attack range of 2
as they were mechanised and able to go quicker into enemy lines without being stopped by the first sniper they come through

some graphic minor issue
minor I said ;)
in the attack legend if attacker are red then "defenders" should be with blue bg

and btw red army should be in red no?
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Re: [POLL] WWII - Stalingrad V8

Postby cairnswk on Mon May 18, 2009 5:56 pm

pamoa wrote:1st suggestion another way of using aircraft ?
what if you get rid of the strange bombs attacking armies and make
aircraft can bombard any city position
artillery can bombard any aircraft ennemies
and then create two or three german HQ that can attack some or all german aircrafts

2nd suggestion
artillery can only bombard enemy infantry and artillery (also aircrafts)
not armoured units as they were less affected by artillery

3rd suggestion
armoured units get an attack range of 2
as they were mechanised and able to go quicker into enemy lines without being stopped by the first sniper they come through

some graphic minor issue
minor I said ;)
in the attack legend if attacker are red then "defenders" should be with blue bg

and btw red army should be in red no?


I'm not up for all of these pamoa. But let's what others have to say about gameplay also.

the reason i put bombs in there was to make it so that only aircraft could attack those positions to keep some gameplay balance. Also to create some reality with what happened re bombing raids. If you have aircraft attacking all over the place then this greatly enhances the opportunity for somebody to fort heavily into the aircraft positions and this could lessen other players opportunities to gain a stronghold somewhere to win the game.

Perhaps the artillery could just be a bombardment aspect.

i see what you mean in the legend re defender colour blue.

red army red. well no not necessarily. although other might agree with you.

Anyway, Version 8 below.
1. I'm trying to put some perspective into this one.
2. Trees are still being worked on
3. Army shadows are being made more transparent.
4. Legend appearing in all 1942 font.
5. Experimenting with background colours...still. Not sure i want winter for this map, That map is more set at the beginning of the battle in summer.

More gameplay discussion please. :)

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Private cairnswk
 
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