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Postby GOD on Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:58 pm

kingwaffles wrote:I think having something like that is a pretty cool idea, but I see Marv's point about the unfairness of it. Maybe you could split it into the twin cites Ankh and Morpork. That way you could have the bonus but it might not neccesarily be given to the player who had the best luck starting. Do you think that woud mess with the balance too much?


I agree. if the bonus city was divided up into two "countries" and you had to hold both in order to get the bonus, then it would be less of an unfai starting advantage.
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Postby Jota on Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:10 pm

That sounds like a great idea. The only problem I see (aside from my needing to legibly fit two nations into that area of the map) is that it'll make 41 countries total, a prime number. That means that any game with this map will necessarily have at least one neutral country.
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Postby thegrimsleeper on Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:50 pm

Maybe assimilate Purdeigh Island into Terror Incognita? That would give you an even number.
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Postby Marvaddin on Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:05 pm

How about split The Hub, or Trollbane Mountains? The second option is better, I think.
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Postby thegrimsleeper on Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:04 pm

Marvaddin wrote:The second option is better, I think.


Well, that goes without saying, otherwise you wouldn't have posted it. :roll:
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Postby Jota on Wed Apr 05, 2006 10:36 pm

As I look it over, I'm starting to think that the Unnamed Continent might have too high a ratio of border countries anyway (6/8 even after Ankh-Morpork is split), so I'm going to add a country to the eastern part of that region somewhere. I'll boost its point value by one as well. 6/9 is still kinda high, but owning that continent will give you the AM bonus as well, so I think that's fair. I agree that Trollbane looks like it's probably a good place to break a chunk off of; I'll look at the map more closely and see.
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Postby Chairman Lmao on Thu Apr 06, 2006 9:39 pm

I'm not sure if this is possible, (because I really have no idea how the technical bits of this online risk work), but maybe you could have Ankh-Morpork still confer the +1 bonus, but make it always start as controlled by a neutral player. This would mean making sure that there is a prime number of countries including Ankh-Morpork, so one of the larger countries could be split, as some of you have already suggested.
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Postby kingwaffles on Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:07 pm

Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines too, but I just don't know how easy that would be to do or if its even possible...
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Apr 06, 2006 10:59 pm

Incredible!! I was thinking about this, too. Im thinking about a phantasy map with portals that can attack to everywhere... But its a very good feature to one player starts with, so I was thinking about this... Is it possible?
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Postby lackattack on Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:26 am

Well I think it's a cool idea, the programming isn't in place though. Jota suggested having "scenarios" (see Mission Cards?) where the author defines starting positions in the xml for the map. So you could make a "scenario" for this map where Ankh-Morpork starts off neutral. This is something that would of course have to be prioritized with all the other improvements so don't expect to see it soon.
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Postby Jota on Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:03 pm

Well, after an exchange of email with Mr. Pratchett, I've removed the original map from the image. It doesn't look as snazzy, but it puts us all on much more comfortable legal ground.

I've tweaked some borders a bit, particularly in Unnamed, and adjusted the bonuses appropriately. I also decided to move the circles off of all the small islands, since it was pointed out to me that once the numbers were added, the islands themselves would sorta disappear underneath them (at least in the small version, anyway).

Available in large and small versions.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:52 pm

Well I am glad the legal issues have been hammered out. The map still looks pretty nice graphics wise, and rather playable.

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Postby Marvaddin on Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:03 pm

It looks good...
Trollbane Mountains have no circle to place number of armies... The legend colours arent good to Rim Islands (cyan on legend, but green on map) and XXXX (red on legend but orange on map). Plus, what a sucking name this "XXXX". Is it possible rename the continent? Another background out of the disc would be good too. Isnt your large version a bit larger than it should be?

Put continent by continent analysis here, and I will comment. Dont forgot, for each continent: # countries, # border countries, # of attack routes from other places.

I realized already that are no medium continents, and I think its a great error. The dispersion of countries is 4, 5, 5, 9, 9, 10. And, there are no continents connected to more than other 3 continents. In fact, only Hublands and Aurient are connected to 3 continents, the others only 2. Its a pretty linear map.
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Postby Jota on Sun Apr 09, 2006 7:48 pm

Marvaddin wrote:Plus, what a sucking name this "XXXX". Is it possible rename the continent?


Well, I suppose I could switch it around: call the continent Fourecks and the country XXXX (in the source material, "Fourecks", "XXXX", and "Terror Incognita" were pretty much all terms for the same general area). I had personally thought that "XXXX" worked rather well as the continent; what do other people think?

Marvaddin wrote:Isnt your large version a bit larger than it should be?


The images are 500x500 and 700x700, respectively. Lack's post on map-making says:

lackattack wrote:You have to design two versions of the map, small (up to 600 px wide) and large (up to 800 px wide). Height is flexible, but I recommend that you do not exceed 350 px on small maps and 600 px on large maps so that users will not need to scroll down to attack.


So they're both within the limits for width, but both exceed the recommendations for height. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do about the aspect ratio. I tried to compromise with my dimensions, because I think that at 350x350 the map would be very hard to read.

Marvaddin wrote:Put continent by continent analysis here, and I will comment. Dont forgot, for each continent: # countries, # border countries, # of attack routes from other places.


I can give you the statistics if you like, although I'd have thought they'd be apparent from the map itself:

  • The Aurient: 5 countries, 3 borders, 3 routes in
  • XXXX: 4 countries, 2 borders, 2 routes in
  • Rim Islands: 5 countries, 2 borders, 2 routes in
  • Hublands: 9 countries, 4 borders, 5 routes in
  • Unnamed: 9 countries, 5 borders, 8 routes in
  • Klatch: 10 countries, 5 borders, 6 routes in

I generally aimed for A) about 50% of a continent's countries being borders, and B) bonuses equal to about 50% of the number of countries. For most cases, that led to bonuses being equal to the number of borders. For the Unnamed continent, the bonus is actually effectively one higher (for the Ankh-Morpork bonus); I feel this is justified because of the large number of attack routes in.

Marvaddin wrote:I realized already that are no medium continents, and I think its a great error.


Originally, the Unnamed continent was fairly medium, but it was expanded to give it a better proportion of border to non-border countries. If there's general agreement that there's an issue here, I could declare the larger rimward island that I currently have as part of the Brown Islands as its own separate entity, so long as I can find a suitable Discworld island that isn't already indicated to be someplace else (it was originally unlabeled on the official map). This would also justify adding another sea route, probably between Mithos and the Caderack Mountains (making the map less linear), and boosting its value up to 3.

Another place I might be able to make a continent more medium is in the Agatean Empire. I could separate Bhangbhangduc out of the archipelago (it's the first, largest island, IIRC), although it might be a bit crowded there if I did. Alternately, I might be able to split a district off of Hunghung (I'd need to look more closely at the original to see if there's anything significant there to work with).

Do other folks agree with Marvaddin, or should I keep those things the way they are?
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:45 pm

Is this map still being worked on, or has it been lost in the shuffle?

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