Flanders 1302V15[Beta] major changes! P19

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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby DubWarrior on Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:04 am

Hi,
2 questions:
- Do you like the new color of the rivers? I'm having a bit the impression they're looking to 'new'...not medieval enough?
- a topic question: what do i need to do, so this topic gets in the main foundry-forum - out of this 'new projects' forum - this one don't feels like a new project :D
But maybe I'm getting a bit impatient ;)

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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:21 am

I know how you feel my friend..

Play with the colors, you are the map maker after all. I just thought the old river color was very similar to the main boundary color. Try that blue-green you used for the ocean, I like that color.

Couple little things to look at, you can almost see a connection between Damme and Poperinge. Slide that border of Ieper over a little bit to the river, unless you want a connection between those 2 territories. The border between Eeklo and Roesclare is smidgen short, just need to finish the line to the river. And consider increasing the bonus of Artesie OR Kortrijk. They just seem very difficult to hold, even if they only have 4 and 5 territories respectively.

Looking really good Dub!
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby The Neon Peon on Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:41 am

To answer your questions:
- Make them the same color as the sea.
- To get the topic into the main foundry, you have to have a good map, which you already do, and have some discussion go on, to show the cartographers that people are interested in seeing this map be a part of the site.

Graphics comments:
- IEPER seems to be smaller, or less bolded than the other rebel stronghold names.
- Tone down territory borders they stand out far too much, make them a little transparent
- Move the rebel stronghold in KORTRIJK right, closer to the bridge so that it is not touching the top of the territory border
- Tidy up the rivers by GENT and BRUGGE
- Add one more dash next to Oostburg in its connection to Broekburg

The map looks wonderful. I love your style.

Gameplay:
- RIJKS Vlaanderen is worth 2 troops yet it is only 3 territories with only 2 of them to defend, it should be brought down to 1 troop
- Henegouwen and Oostervant together are 7 territories, 3 to defend, and are worth 5 troops. One of the two bonuses needs to be reduced
- Kortrijk needs to be worth 3 troops. Because of its central location, it is difficult to obtain and hold, so making it worth more makes it worthwhile to go get
- Consider extending Duinkerke east so that it borders a Broekburg and Sint Omaars, and Vinoxbergen does not borer Broekburg

That is all the comments I have for now. Will drop in sometime later. Keep up the good work.
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby whitestazn88 on Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:01 pm

yo, i've been posting here for a bit. back again for the preliminary review. looks good. you've updated things to get people to like it more, and its been improved vastly, i say move it on, and good luck getting forged
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby dolomite13 on Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:15 pm

I really like this map. The colors look really good next to each other. I agree wih everything Neon Peon said. I did also notice the dark border you have left side of the map is slightly right of the map edge and the right side one is slightly off the edge of the map. But thats just a nit pick.

Great Job

==D
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:37 pm

Hello Dub Warrior...i'm here for a preliminary review :) please forgive if some things have already been discussed and edited.
This is a nice small map in some colour combinations that haven't been seen before... turning out well. I like the citrus colours you've applied, your border design is suitable and periodic, and in particular the curve you have around the title.
For an older person like me, i'd like to see the very small territory names slightly larger in font size.
The overall size on version 6 will still have to be reduced to 630px width, as it stands now at 668px.
"french" king in story needs a capital F.
Some rivers around Brugge are a bit pixely.
Perhaps the inset legend map can be reduced slightly in size also to give the sea line some real estate.
You've got a four-way border around Axel, Hulst, Lokeren, Beveren that will need amending. And the same at Doornik, Hergen etc...they simply need to be offset a little.
The territory borders will need tidying slightly, some lines are thicker than others, and one of then doesn't intersect properly....the border of Eeklo just north-west of Brugge.
But overall, coming along nicely. :)
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby whitestazn88 on Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:48 pm

cairnswk wrote:Hello Dub Warrior...i'm here for a preliminary review :) please forgive if some things have already been discussed and edited.
This is a nice small map in some colour combinations that haven't been seen before... turning out well. I like the citrus colours you've applied, your border design is suitable and periodic, and in particular the curve you have around the title.
For an older person like me, i'd like to see the very small territory names slightly larger in font size.
The overall size on version 6 will still have to be reduced to 630px width, as it stands now at 668px.
"french" king in story needs a capital F.
Some rivers around Brugge are a bit pixely.
Perhaps the inset legend map can be reduced slightly in size also to give the sea line some real estate.
You've got a four-way border around Axel, Hulst, Lokeren, Beveren that will need amending. And the same at Doornik, Hergen etc...they simply need to be offset a little.
The territory borders will need tidying slightly, some lines are thicker than others, and one of then doesn't intersect properly....the border of Eeklo just north-west of Brugge.
But overall, coming along nicely. :)


older person? i thought you were in uni?
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:49 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:...
older person? i thought you were in uni?

I am in uni. i worked for 34 years after high school and am now a "mature-age student" at James Cook Univeristy here in Cairns.
60 % of the uni's popluation are mature-aged students.
Oldies go to uni here in australia also whitestazn88. ;)

Now back to topic... :)
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby whitestazn88 on Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:13 am

cairnswk wrote:
whitestazn88 wrote:...
older person? i thought you were in uni?

I am in uni. i worked for 34 years after high school and am now a "mature-age student" at James Cook Univeristy here in Cairns.
60 % of the uni's popluation are mature-aged students.
Oldies go to uni here in australia also whitestazn88. ;)

Now back to topic... :)

well i mean, oldies go to uni here too... but i always thought you were a youngie(?), i guess thats my fault for assuming most people participating in an online forum such as this one would be younger.
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby DubWarrior on Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:47 pm

Thanks for all the comment so far. i'm just passing by to let you know that I'm on a holliday the next 2 weeks,
so no updates coming up.
but don't worry, I'll return ;)
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby lostatlimbo on Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:52 pm

overall, i think the map looks good. its simple and effective.

if the darkened blobs (islands) in the NE corner of the map aren't necessary, I think it would look better without them.

i think its a good idea to have the rivers darker - the color of the ocean might not stand out enough, but it might if you added some depth in the rivers.
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby eigenvector on Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:14 am

Hi,

The rivers are great so long as their thickness stays constant. Where it varies (like south of Brugge) they look like a mess. So I'd suggest you go for uniform thickness and it will be splendid.
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:13 am

I am late to join the commenting team.
But Flanders is next door, so I 'd like to give my input. :P
It's a nicely coloured map.

Change Title:
Flanders Uprising ! .
Seems more catchy a title :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Put the "Golden Spurs battle" in the legend (as reference for interested players).
(..and lost it..in the Golden Spurs battle).



Was Antwerpen then still part of Brabant ?

Shouldn't Antwerp be more under/below the "impassable" river ?
Now you have to go from Antwerp to Brussels to Aalst thru Lokeren to get to Beveren...whereas Beveren is NEXT DOOR to Antwerp ?!?
If there is some sort of map necessity to install this detour feature, then please enlighten us..but I can't think of a good reason to move away from the historic and geographic realities here.
And if Antwerp was one of the major cities behind the revolt then they SHOULD have straight access to the Kroon Vlaanderen "continent".
And another thing; now Antwerp as a city with +1 auto deploy is in the corner of the map and being cuddly covered by oostburg and Brussel...that is too favourable for the player that is lucky enough to spawn in that region. So another reason to give direct access between Antwerp and Beveren (bridge).


Why is there this relatively huge sea link between Oostburg and Broekburg ?
The peasant army didnot have a naval fleet, nor did the french knights. Everything went overland.
Let's stick to the mobility of 1302 and remove unnecessary large sea(or flight :s) links.


cairnswk wrote:"french" king in story needs a capital F.

I suppose then the "French" knights and "Flemish" peasants need a lower case "f" ..

cheers
Last edited by lt_oddball on Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby sinctheassasin on Tue Aug 04, 2009 11:18 pm

I like the map, it's calm and easy on the eyes, yet bold enough to be noticable. The rivers look fine to me :D
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:22 am

I say lighten the rivers a tad and darken the sea some... they don't have to look identical, but narrowing the gap might help.
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby DubWarrior on Mon Aug 17, 2009 8:15 am

lt_oddball wrote:Was Antwerpen then still part of Brabant ?

Just to answer this one:
In 1056, some northern parts of Brabant became part of Rijks-Vlaanderen. But, Antwerp stays part of Brabant, and BORDERS at that time with Rijks-Vlaanderen. Only in 1312, Antwerp became some democratic republic (only for a while, typicaly belgium history ;)
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:04 pm

Welcome back DubWarrior!

only few things:
  • The color of rivers is good, maybe try to mix colors where rivers flow into the sea
  • The sea route from Broekburg to Oostburg...it's possible not to have the route drawn on the minimap?
  • Not a big fan of a All caps text for rebel strongholds, i think that the icon is enough ;)

On the whole, the map is very nice and you're on the right way.
No reason to hold this map in the drafting room.

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Onward and upward!

Have a nice day
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Re: Flanders 1302 Update Juli 21 V6 - Pg1

Postby The Neon Peon on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:02 pm

Congratulations, coming along very nicely through the foundry.
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby DubWarrior on Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:17 am

Well, Back with a new version...
and, it's great to get stamped :)

So, amongst the changes in version7:
- changed the border between Damme and Poperinge (so there isn't a connection any longer)
- same for the border of Duinkerke and Broekburg
- Blend the rivers and the sea
- cleaned up the rivers
- I didn't gave the borders more transparency, but made them equal and thinner
- some small changes; like lowering the city-icon in Kortrijk, and made the decorative frame symmetric
- resized the maps (back to 630px and 840px)
- gave groeninge and oudenaarde some more space, by putting their borders a bit to the east
- added a bridge between antwerpen and beveren.
- added a subtitle (Battle of the Golden Spurs)
- changed the mini-map
- made the text one pt bigger, and put the rebel strongholds in lower caps. (great comment!)
- added the gameplay-changes, made by neon peon, RedBaron and Oddball...thanks so far all!
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby lt_oddball on Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:32 am

Hi Dubw,

Still one old question:
Why is there this relatively huge sea link between Oostburg and Broekburg ?
The peasant army didnot have a naval fleet, nor did the french knights. Everything went overland.
Let's stick to the mobility of 1302 and remove unnecessary large sea (or airflight :s) links.

One other point:
You have the map of the battle area, but you don't get the gameplay of it:
Who plays the role of the french knights ?
All rebel cities have +1 (players immediately go for these .. like the city states in maps of ancient greece/Rome) and the rebels have the small but desired bonuszones of Oostervant, Rijskvlanderen and 4 Ambachten. So your map now gets the feel of an internal revolt map (as in the Flemish cities battle each other amongst eachother).
In order to have the french invading knights effect felt you need to add some autodeploy factor in the area of Bethune.
A castle ? A french flag ? +2 autodeploy ?

To balance things you must figure out how far the first next +1 town is away from the +2 of the french invading army as compared to the distance inbetween each +1 town.
(e.g. Ieper is then too close to Bethune..so you need to create some distance inbetween..so that "flemish" players have time to collect another +1 town before the "french" player hits on him/them.
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby DubWarrior on Sun Aug 30, 2009 4:14 am

Hi Oddball,
Thanks for all your comments so far. You bring up some true questions.
-This sea-link was an idea to link 2 'ends' on the map with eachother. If it's impossible for a player to cross the map, some good action can be taken in that way, by using this connection. it's just a very small detail, and can be easily removed from the map.
No armys where shipped at that time, but, as I said already, I try to make some historical background, not a scenario. Just to give an impression of that time, there is an auto-deploy on the major cities, and their is a sea-link, representing the traderoutes at that time (it's not a historic sealink, but cities such as bruges, had a very important sea-trade at that time)
So, the importance of 'free' trade-cities at that time is suggested with a sea-link and the auto deploy.
-The same answer for 'the french' part of the map. Their isn't a french part on the map, that's true. I suggest more an internal revolt. As I said, a scenario-map isn't exactly what I'm looking for so far; imagine a standard-game with 8 players? It's CC, its always an internal revolt ;) So I'm more looking for a historical background, rather then a historical scenario.

On the other hand, it's just my opinion, some other players's opinions are welcome, It's to hard to make a decision now.
Thanks so far, but more comments are neccesary.

Grtz
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby lt_oddball on Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:23 am

DubWarrior wrote:Thanks so far, but more comments are neccesary.

Grtz
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ok... waiting for more opinions :)
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby The Neon Peon on Wed Sep 02, 2009 6:37 pm

lt_oddball wrote:
DubWarrior wrote:Thanks so far, but more comments are neccesary.

Grtz
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ok... waiting for more opinions :)

I am waiting for an update There has not been one since Page 3.
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby DubWarrior on Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:15 am

Hey,

I replaced the image in the first post on page 1. that's the 7th update you see. Older version can be found beneath.
It looks like this one, I posted this one on August 20:
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Re: Flanders 1302-Update August 20 V7 [D] - Pg1

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:01 am

You are looking REAL good here Dub. Don't forget to change your title on your first post when you edit, it still says your last update was 3 weeks ago...

Usually gameplay discussions begin in earnest now. The biggest concerns I'm seeing right now is the small 2 territory bonus regions may be dropped on the start of a fair amount of games. And what about the rebel strongholds? Will they start as neutral?

Take a look at these utilities and see what you come up with concerning your bonuses.

Bonus Probability Calculator

Continent Bonus Spreadsheets and other useful map making tools
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Medals: 83
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9) General Achievement (8)
Clan Achievement (9) Map Contribution (2) Tournament Contribution (3) General Contribution (12)

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