Flanders 1302V15[Beta] major changes! P19

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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:21 am

I think that for brugge to be totally sealed off while giving a +2 is way too strong even if it starts out as a neutral. Any option to make all castle connect to brugge or something?
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:25 am

Hmmm, strong point...very true. I first did the rivers, and in a later version I did the +2 bonus. So I didn't correct it afterwards.

With Castles you mean Ieper and Gent? or connect all capitals with Brugge, like some sort of trade-rout?
looks like a serious decision to me... any options?
Wouldn't it be enough to link Ieper and Eeklo with Brugge?
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby pamoa on Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:56 am

I know you already put a lot of work in this map and the result is great

my suggestions and remarks

your towers are so plain I'm sure you can give us a more sexy design, more in tone with the theme with some battlements

the lion in Brugge is very blurry

river around Brugge Kortijk and Gent is pixelised

I would put some frame around your bonus graphic legend

I really miss the drawing you had in version 3

I hope it will help you going on
good work =D>
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby lt_oddball on Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:05 pm

DubWarrior wrote:Hmmm, strong point...very true. I first did the rivers, and in a later version I did the +2 bonus. So I didn't correct it afterwards.

With Castles you mean Ieper and Gent? or connect all capitals with Brugge, like some sort of trade-rout?
looks like a serious decision to me... any options?
Wouldn't it be enough to link Ieper and Eeklo with Brugge?


only bridge Brugge to Roeselare, yes.
(Brugge must not be too "open".. it is the key city and would have been tough defended against besieging french knights...).

True Zierikzee (Schouwen) is an Island ..(damn that I missed that).
Middelburg is on the peninsula towards NE of Antwerp ..(but would have been on island in 1302 ?).

:)
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:27 am

pamoa wrote:I know you already put a lot of work in this map and the result is great

my suggestions and remarks

your towers are so plain I'm sure you can give us a more sexy design, more in tone with the theme with some battlements

the lion in Brugge is very blurry

river around Brugge Kortijk and Gent is pixelised

I would put some frame around your bonus graphic legend

I really miss the drawing you had in version 3

I hope it will help you going on
good work =D>

-For the towers, I'l keep it in mind and hopefully I can do some medieval drawing in the style of my signature...I don't like the shiny 3D-like style of it now...
-The Lion and the river are easy to correct, I will update them.
-The legend is a bit 'naked' now, true...Maybe a very small border, or extra parchment?
-Most important: You miss the drawing of version 3...? what exactly? everything, or the legend? On what point it was better. I always thought it was a good version, but then we did the darker version...
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby pamoa on Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:57 am

DubWarrior wrote:-The legend is a bit 'naked' now, true...Maybe a very small border, or extra parchment?
-Most important: You miss the drawing of version 3...? what exactly? everything, or the legend? On what point it was better. I always thought it was a good version, but then we did the darker version...

small medieval style border would be perfect
the soldier drawing in the bg and it was a good version
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Re: Flanders 1302- V10 [D, Gp] 10/28/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:43 am

Hi, the cook is back ;)
Amongst the changes:
-made Zierikzee an Island, only connencted with Middelburg
- added a border round the legend
-changed the capital-symbol (tower) by shields. It are the official shields or flags of the cities.
-changed the color of the French Capital Arras (turned into a lighter blue to make it more distinctive with the other capitals)

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It is pretty strange. I made the map in Photoshop en added text in Illustrator. I opened it back in Photoshop to save it as a good jpg, and it is always saved a bit blurry. Any advice? (I made the map on a 300dpi, and scaled it at the end to 72dpi. I use a JPG 12 compresion 'Progression'.
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby natty dread on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:46 am

Save it as png..
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:00 am

mooi hoor ;)
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby MrBenn on Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:42 pm

DubWarrior wrote:It is pretty strange. I made the map in Photoshop en added text in Illustrator. I opened it back in Photoshop to save it as a good jpg, and it is always saved a bit blurry. Any advice? (I made the map on a 300dpi, and scaled it at the end to 72dpi. I use a JPG 12 compresion 'Progression'.

The dpi makes no difference to what we see on screen (840px will always be 840px), so changing it will have no visible effect unless you're printing it out.

The aesthetics of the map feel a bit imbalanced. You have the clunky minimap in the top corner (which doesn't look that great, especially where it meets the actual land of the main map), while the graphically superior title and inset are hidden away amidst the main playable area.

Now that you've got all the gameplay elements in place, I'd seriously reconsider jiggling things around to enhance the overall graphical appeal of the map. You've done really well to get this far, I just feel that you should be looking to raise the bar that bit higher ;-)
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:51 pm

I'm digging the look and style of this map, DubWarrior.

Some of the river areas still seem a little rough...I.E. around Orchies, Gent, Brugge, Antwerpen.

I'm also not sure I like the "Yellow-Yellow" overlap of Kroon and the bottom of the legend.


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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby alexandrois on Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:02 am

My biggest problem is the rivers they need to be more distinct
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Re: Flanders 1302- V9.2 [D] [Gp] 10/22/2009

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Nov 17, 2009 1:12 pm

This map looks great. Really.

But I have a few tidbits for you to address.

It seems all your blacks have either grown pixelated, like the lines against the rivers, or too fuzzy, like the bridges or the black shields or the upper border. I hope its just save problem to prevent too much trouble.

The border, I think, should just run along the top and the bottom, not along the legend.

Good luck, I hope you're almost there!
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 11/23/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:35 am

Back with some sort of update...

Image

I skipped the mini-map and army circles because:
-mini map can be replaced by some color-dots, representing the regions (think: Ireland map). it will be easy to place them on the map, considering the leaning curve of my seaborder, and it will make the map look 'softer'...think it's a good idea?
- I think of removing the army circles...don't think there's a need to place them?

-anyone allready checked the border of terwaan? Terwaan is bordering with broekburg and poperinge, but I think it might be confusing with the rivercrossing in the east...see what I mean?

amongst the changes:
-saved as a PNG
-made shields and bridges sharper
-made the rivers a bit bigger and replaced them with sharper version
-removed the 'new' borders for the legend and the minimap
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 11/23/2009

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:16 am

The graphics looks great. Definitely an improvement. You need to get that legend in there though.

I'd run a test however on whether or not you need army circles. Try all colored numbers on each province to make sure they show up.
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 11/23/2009

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:52 pm

Looks good so far. The shields look a little strange to me. I think it is because the shields look as if they are pressed into the landscape a little (the bridges appear to be on the landscape). In the title as well...

Also, there is a thicker brown (ish) border that distinguishes bonus zones from other bonus zones, yes? It seems more prominent in some areas (near Brussel, Kassel, Orchies), and less so by Axel, Hulst, etc.

Keep up the good work.


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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 11/23/2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:13 am

bonus legend as a list of region is fine
in fact it always fit better
specially in this case where you have it "floating" in the sea
but you have to put the name of the regions also on the map itself
like a larger greyish transparent font

armies circles aren't necessary at all
your territories are large enough to have them inside borders
just watch out when placing them in xml
so none go over a border

I'm not sure about your question on Terwaan border
if it is about gameplay
it is clear although a bit complicated to catch quickly the connections
if it is about colours
then I would say you have a little problem of contrast
try to lower the darkness of the four lower "dark" region

about shield and despite what Andy said
I like the effect of them being like stamped in volume on the paper
but bridge should have some shadow under it
so they look like being drawn on the map
not object set on it

river are very clear
but I don't like the square end
try to make them end round or sharp tip

and oh
png much much more better
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 11/23/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:59 pm

Back with a new draft,
most of the last comments i tried to fix, but essentialy I tried to make a new type of legend,
any thoughts on it or more comments?

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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:47 am

In the legend "Henegouwen +4" sticks out very far towards the coast of the map.

Shuffle the names:


K. Vla R. Vla Vier Amb

Kortrijk Henegouw Brabant

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By the way, what is the frame-curl doing in Terwaan ?
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby pamoa on Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:41 am

lt_oddball wrote:Shuffle the names:
K. Vla R. Vla Vier Amb
Kortrijk Henegouw Brabant
Artes Oosterv

on the contrary it fit geographical order as it is
leave it this way
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:07 am

pamoa wrote:
lt_oddball wrote:Shuffle the names:
K. Vla R. Vla Vier Amb
Kortrijk Henegouw Brabant
Artes Oosterv

on the contrary it fit geographical order as it is
leave it this way


Well I placed the names in this order because it fits geographicaly. A player can fast find his bonus this way; i guess. By mixing the names, the bonusses will become confusing?
It's true the names right come close to the coastline, but that's why i dropped some isles in front of the Vier Ambachten coast...

-the curly border is whats left of the decoration down in the left corner ;) I need to clean it up, because the title is now in the top ;)
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:15 am

DubWarrior wrote:It's true the names right come close to the coastline, but that's why i dropped some isles in front of the Vier Ambachten coast...


That sucks..Middelburg(vlissingen) without its fat piece of land surrounding it ?
Come on..you should think of ways to fit the legend to the map, not the map subservient to the legend.. #-o
There is still room/space for improvement in the sea.
And the legend don't have to fit the actual geography..(you input the small shapes of part(!) of the provinces, but who says that is required to understand the bonusses? - a name is important, a colour helpful, the rest is luxury.. a player only needs to see the legend once).
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:03 am

The legend I'm not too keen on, but I can live with it. One possible solution is that you can do what Kabanellas did on Third Crusade and put the numbers faded in the bonus region so as to clarify.

Last nitpick is that the text is a bit jagged in the lower right.
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby MrBenn on Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:42 am

The only thing I'd really suggest is to move things around a little bit:

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I think that something like this feels like it's a much more natural use of the space ;-)
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Re: Flanders 1302- V11 [D] [Gp] 12/7/2009

Postby DubWarrior on Sun Dec 13, 2009 6:07 am

WoW Mr.Benn, it's pretty clear you're doing this as the foundry foreman...This easy solution makes us all look like some fools :D
congrats, I guess we all agree?
=D>
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