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Postby gouverneurcc on Sat May 13, 2006 7:20 pm

the map is looking amazing, but make sure you get the whole copyright out of the way because I know that some of those names are copyrighted, so you wouldn't want to get in some big trouble, so make sure you get that taken care of.
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Postby ticalien on Sat May 13, 2006 9:54 pm

Here's the latest version of the map I have.

Image

I'll leave it up to the community to decide, but my interests aside, I think it'd be pretty dumb to start all over with a "new" (if that's what you can call it) map. I'm more than willing to include any input into the map, even give it to you to edit should you feel like you can improve something. I've posted the map for community opinion and up to this current version addressed nearly everyone's request/opinions. If everyone thinks the map should be expanded to more countries it'd be easy enough to do, but IMO the current layout would create some interesting stratagies and play pretty nice.

No matter what, I think this map is well on it's way to being one of the better one's on the site. Of course I'm a bit biased :o
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Postby Hoff on Sat May 13, 2006 11:08 pm

I think the map is looking really good. The texture is a nice touch, but i feel that the continents still feel about flat. Maybe do something to fix that. And maybe you can think about the use of some more sea ports? And I am not a huge fan of the color of Ruhn. Its to bright or too pale or something compared to the rest of the territories.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sun May 14, 2006 1:18 am

Well lets see...



---The map is making some forward progress, which is always a plus in the industry. That said there are a few things that could be looked into changing and fixing. (Main things I've already commented on like the legend, etc won't be commented on again until it's toward the more final stage).

---The colors aren't clashing like they previously were. The colors feel pretty near the tones they should be for a color balance, while still staying true to their color form. I see that you've changed some of the mountain range colors, interesting idea, and with some adaptation could be unique.

---A few problems though with the color, or more specifically, the color borders are currently on the map. Rhovanion's internal borders for instance almost feel too light. Perhaps they could be darkened to a darker brown. Same goes for Rohan and Lindon. Though I can't tell if Lindon's internal border is a river or just the color you used for the border.

---The texture is actually there. I see it, I feel it. It isn't just a color anymore, though I might have to agree the continent do still seem a little flat. How to alleviate the problem? I am not sure--perhaps a few darker areas? Something you will have to experiment on your own.

---Rohan's country names seem a little lighter than the other continents. Is this one on purpose? Just a curious thought.

---I see that some of the swoop border's are gone and now there seems to be realistic borders. I think that they currently feel less like an artist's paint strokes, and more like definitive country borders.

---Quick fix in The Shire and Belegost. It still sort of looks like they can attack each other, the river doesn't extend all the way to the ocean, just a minor fix there.

====================================

That is all that comes to mind at the moment, but I would still like to comment on a few things.

---I don't think any countries need to be added. That said though, I don't think it would hurt adding them (barring you adding an odd or ungodly number of course).

---If there was some sort of battle between the Hasbro Lord of the Ring's map and this one, I would wholeheartedly put my support efforts into this work. If you wanted to play the Hasbro version, I'm sure many local retailers have it in stock. If you wanted to play this version, you'd have to come here (assuming it makes it up for game play). This map is unique and original, even though it's a borrowed concept. I surely would not play on an edited version of the actual map. As thrilling as game play may be, the originality trumps it, I believe, in this case.



--Andy
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Postby Banana Stomper on Sun May 14, 2006 12:51 pm

Perhaps look for some more contrast in the colors of borders. And the rivers are very thin, could be missed easily
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Postby Marvaddin on Sun May 14, 2006 1:32 pm

Again, I really think that 7 continents is too much for 40 countries...
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Postby Dark Shadow on Sun May 14, 2006 6:43 pm

I think it looks great, can't wait to play it.
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Postby Hoff on Sun May 14, 2006 6:55 pm

Try adding more countries. It seems like it might be fairly easy to do as long as you can come up with the names.
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Postby ticalien on Sun May 14, 2006 11:30 pm

Aside from the legend and continent bonuses the asthetics of the map are approaching the end of it's modifications. Following are the changes in the map:

Added 5 more countries bringing the total countries to 45
- North Downs (Eriador), Whithered Heath (Ruhn), The Brown Lands (Rhovanion), Ithilien (Gondor), Khand (Mordor)

Added some more textures and shading of the map and country borders

Closed path from Fodlindon to Angmar

Changed Lindon's continent bonus to 2

Lightened color in Ruhn



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Postby fluffybunnykins on Mon May 15, 2006 4:17 am

like it
especially like the way that there aren't only geographical features where they effect gameplay and using lighter rivers to represent territorial borders.
it's good.
I'd consider losing the land texture from under the sea of rhun lake (maybe give it the same fill as the sea area (same for nurn/khand)
Superman wears 'Fluffybunnykins' pyjamas
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Postby ticalien on Mon May 15, 2006 9:02 am

Updated the lake and sea fills.

Moved the stream through The Shire.
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Postby Haydena on Mon May 15, 2006 12:07 pm

I still think you would do good to loose the weird red dunbell bridges still and find another graphic to symbolise it.
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Postby Truman on Mon May 15, 2006 1:58 pm

Use the bridges from the real map, like what was used for the bridges in the "Tamriel" map. I noticed the bridges from the "Lord of the Rings Risk" were used, but I didn't comment about it.

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Postby adrianoabs on Tue May 16, 2006 11:46 am

Hello I'm new to this site, but am a great risk fan! Was looking at the map and I think it is top quality, I would greatly enjoy playing it. Well done for all the work you've put into it, it's clearly very worth the time and effort. The only bad thing about it is the bridges (in my opinion), and after reading 5 pages of threads i'm glad someone has mentioned it!
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Postby coolestguy98 on Tue May 16, 2006 4:57 pm

yea, so i dunno about this map, i mean it has some visual appeal, but the bridges are badly needed. Perhaps not a bright red to indicate who can attack where, it looks kinda tacky to me. But also, Rohan is outta control in this map. It's nothing like in the books and movie and so forth, Rohan, as best i recall, does not go up even as far as Moria, which is neglected in this map. But this map has Rohan going all the way up to Rivendell, and past it, if that was to be a city on the map. It just seems pretty unrealistic to have it going so far north. Perhaps make Lorien smaller, and bring it down farther south, and then just extend mirkwood to the mountains, i would think that would work out well, or atleast make it more fiasable.
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Postby Truman on Tue May 16, 2006 6:17 pm

Why is Rhun a bonus three if there are only two ways in?
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Postby coolestguy98 on Wed May 17, 2006 12:47 pm

Any word from Arnor?
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Postby ticalien on Thu May 18, 2006 12:02 pm

Based on the feedback on this map, you'd think the bullet connectors on the map where a log of crap smack dab in the middle of the thing. Personally, I don't mind them they're easy to see and are non-obtrusive. Nonetheless, I've designed some bridges and replaced the internal paths with them. I still prefer the bullet style, but will put this out there for opinions.


Image

Aside from modifing/sprucing up the legend I feel as though the map has reached it's completion. If anyone has any last input speak now or forever hold your peace.

In regards to the thread about Rohan, you're correct that the current border doesn't correctly depecit the borders based on the movies/books, but I felt the rivers created nice natural boundries and therefore went that route. Having continents which are tough to hold is not a bad thing...

I'll look forward to any additional input before finalizing the map.
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Postby Jota on Thu May 18, 2006 9:00 pm

I like the new bridges. And I'm pretty satisfied with the visuals overall, personally.

As for bonuses, I'm a bit torn. Rhovanion, Ruhn, and Lindon have the bonuses that I would have assigned myself, but all the others seem to be a bit higher, so I'm not sure that those three are really proportionate with the rest of the map.
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Postby PaperPlunger on Thu May 18, 2006 9:28 pm

this map is some sweet ass shit
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Postby Truman on Thu May 18, 2006 10:06 pm

PaperPlunger wrote:this map is some sweet ass shit


Is that a complement, or an insult? :roll:

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Postby Truman on Thu May 18, 2006 10:23 pm

I'm sorry if this is a huge thing to ask (and you don't have to do it if you don't want to), but I think:

Lindon and Eriador should be combined into one continent and made a bonus 7.

A seaport connecting Forodwaith, Far Harad, Tolfalas, and Harlindon should be added.

Angmar should be separated into 2 countries, both connected to Forodwaith.

Khand, Near Harad, Far Harad, and Haradwaith should be separated from Mordor and made a different continent with one more country added, and made a bonus two, with Far Harad with the seaport and another country connected to South Gondor; the only borders. The mountains should close Nurn and Gorgorath up.

Mordor should add maybe three more countries with a border connecting Ithilien (hence, the reason why Mordor attacked Osgiliath from Minas Morgul). Minas Morgul should become a country which connects Mordor and Gondor. Gorgorath should be moved somewhere else in Mordor and a country called "Mount Doom" be put in its place, with its border going in and out, not just out. Mordor then should be made a bonus 2.

Gondor, Rohan, Rhovanion, and Rhun should be left alone entirely. They are good as they are. Good job on the bridges, and keep up the good work (which you're almost finished with anyway...unless you do the above :lol:)
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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu May 18, 2006 10:29 pm

What you suggested nearly changes the whole game play of the map, maybe a little too huge. ;)


I particularly like the 3 little continents on the outside rim of the map. Many successful maps follow a similar formula. I could see a sea port being added, but I am not sure it is exactly necessary. It could help the movement from one area of the map to the next, but if the map is kept nearly how it is (current countries and continents) it could give an advantage to the small continent players, giving them easy routes to gain control of the little guys then.


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Postby Marvaddin on Fri May 19, 2006 1:14 am

I really dislike this country dispersion: 4, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8. I think its really terrible. It seems much more the dispersion of a pack of boxes like the battledome map. Plus, only one small continent is a very bad thing, because will give an unbalanced advantage the player that hold it. In the other hand, no gigantic continents. Greater of 7 continents having only 8 countries is a shame.

Countries, borders, routes.
Lindon: 4, 2, 3. Bonus 2, ok.
Ruhn: 6, 3, 3. Bonus 3, ok, like Africa. But here I can point for the first time a serious problem: linearity, ie, each border is always touching exactly one border of other continents.
Mordor: 6, 2, 1... Ridiculously easy to hold. Only one border after taking South Gondor. I told already, but will repeat it: that one way route is a great problem to the playability. In fact, to be more balanced, we should be able to attack from both Dragorland and Ered Lithui. Please, remove the arrow.
Gondor: 6, 4, 5. It will surely act as a Mordor province. And the owner will gain 8 armies having 3 borders... Better than both Americas, huh? I cant understand the bonus of 5. After holding Mordor and it, very good position, since each other border has only one possible route. The linearity again. The arrow for Tolfalas name should be removed, too.
Rovhanion: 7, 5, 6. Again, terrible the way as almost all borders have only one possible route... And 5 borders is too much... The bonus is too high, but decrease the number of borders would be good... it can be easier in Wilderland (Mirkwood can be a border to Erebor) and Emyn Muil (you can add a route between Lebennin and Westfold to do the map a bit less linear too)
Rohan: 8, 5, 5. Again, total linearity: each border touches exactly one border of another continent. 7 is too much again.
Eriador: 8, 4, 5. At least Angmar can be attacked from 2 different places. I never understood why was that route between Trollshaws and Eregion necessary... This continent was very good with 7 countries and 3 borders.

See... I could really say nothing... in fact, Im saying only now because 1- I was busy 2- I was hoping someone could point some things 3- I saw you saying the map is almost complete. Anyway, as you asked for my help before, and Im always wanting the best maps, I WANT say (although you can disagree, its only my opinion) that I believe you should rethink many things, or this map, maybe the most waited, can be really terrible.
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Postby coolestguy98 on Fri May 19, 2006 2:16 am

I must say, when it comes to this map, I completely agree with Truman. I also would agree is is perhaps the most awaited map, as per what Marv was saying. There are definitly some changes i think should be made. This is a map based off the books and the movies, and without having Moria or Minas Morgul, i think would be a shame.

In the North though specifically, as Truman was saying, Lindon should be abolished. And replaced either as he stated, or even perhaps make another continent, just have it placed different, instead of having Lindon, you could make all the countries that are part of Lindon now part of Eriador, minus Forochel. Then with Forodwaith, Angmar, Weather Hills and North Downs you could make the Kingdom of Arnor. Just a thought, but some change would be good.

Honestly when it comes to game play, and numbers, i worry, myself, very little about that, for really its how the game gets played out, as you can tell, i lose many, but its mainly cause i'm an idiot about it, i don't feel its the maps. When you making a map such as this i would aim more for accuracy, and incorporating that which was important to the plot, then perfect numbers. Hence why i feel Minas Morgal would be a nice addition, and why i too would like to see Moria added. I find it good to have challenging places to keep a hold of, but i also think in this sense, it is good to be accurate, and have that which was important in there also.

As for breaking up Mordor, i'm all for that. Easily you could close off Harad with the mountians, and form a few more countries down there. But also Mordor can easily be broken down. Gorgarath itself could be broken into the Black Gates, Mount Doom, and Barad Dur. Add in Minas Morgul, as the passage into Mordor, make the Black Gates be a two way ordeal and then Mordor will be a very good spot to hold, yet still not impossible to have conquered. Lest we not forget, it was not Mordor that defeated everyone else. Not saying we should make them weak, but in the same regard, we should not make it overly powerful.

I really like the looks so far, i think though some of those changes would make it a more intimate experience. I like the colors, and much of the look, the base plan is all there, you've done most of the hard work i think. Just some details here and there to fix up.
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