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Re: Japan - 6th revision pg4

Postby barterer2002 on Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:00 am

You could also use the flag (Either the current one or one of the historical ones)
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Re: Japan - 6th revision pg4

Postby RedBaron0 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:38 am

The current flag:

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is kinda on the bland side, even if I could find something spiffy with the flag fluttering in the breeze over near a famous landmark. The other famous flag:

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the Japanese naval ensign from WWII may evoke bad feelings on a racial level. Besides at this point a flag I don't think fits in the graphical theme.

Another possibility, how about a bonsai tree?
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Re: Japan - 6th revision pg4

Postby ender516 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:16 am

RedBaron0 wrote:The current flag:

Image

is kinda on the bland side, even if I could find something spiffy with the flag fluttering in the breeze over near a famous landmark. The other famous flag:

Image

the Japanese naval ensign from WWII may evoke bad feelings on a racial level. Besides at this point a flag I don't think fits in the graphical theme.

Another possibility, how about a bonsai tree?

A bonsai would be archetypically Japanese, provided it did not just look like a tree. I suppose the carefully scupted branches would get the point across.

If you still want to think about flags, Wikipedia has a List of Japanese flags which gives a wider range of banners, though not many of them make me think of Japan immediately, with the exception of the Imperial banners with the gold chrysanthemum on a red field.
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Re: Japan - 6th revision pg4

Postby RedBaron0 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:55 am

Yeah I saw them, I think most folks wouldn't recognize any of the other flags, even if they represent the Imperial family. Even some of the other symbols are too easily confused with other things, like the cherry blossoms. I kinda knew in the back of my mind that there is a Japanese connection there, but the first thing that springs to mind, and would for most Americans, is the cherry blossoms that bloom around Washington DC. The chrysanthemum is another symbol of Japan, and is an overall Asian flower, but mums tend to be giving as gifts on Easter and Mother's Day too...
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby RedBaron0 on Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:31 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Okay, 4th of July, and I've got a Japan update for y'all!

Added the blue dragon and the Torii gate for graphical accents. Added better highlights to the text and a bit to the main country outline. Also took the mountains and made sure there isn't any question (I hope) to which territory connects to which. I also smudged areas around the mountains to give them a more blended look.

I don't know if I need any more graphical accents, but the junk is beginning to look to me to be a smidgen out of place, and almost ghost-like. Do you guys think I should turn up the opacity?

I'd like to slide back towards any gameplay issues there might be. There's still issues, I think, with bonus values, and a territory or two may need to be added and/or subtracted, possibly. Still, feel free to give suggestions on graphics, I know I need to put the territory circles on, with any luck, as long as there are no major issues with this version, the circles will be on the next version. With the territories generally very light colors I can work with circles that are darker which should give good contrast to the army numbers.
Last edited by RedBaron0 on Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby lancehoch on Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:43 am

Current bonus structure:
Hokkaido__3
Tohoku____3
Kanto______2
Hokuriku___4
Chukogu___3
Shikoku____2
Kyushu_____2

I think that Chukogi should be upped to 5 since it has the most territories and is defending against the most points of contact with other bonus regions. I also think that Tohoku should be increased to 4 since it has more territories than Hokkaido (6 vs 5), it has more border territories (3 vs 2), and it is defending against more points of contact with other bonus regions (4 vs 2).
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby RedBaron0 on Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:40 am

After running the numbers through the bonus calculators the numbers are coming up pretty close to what is already presented. The only difference is Hokkaido, the calculators suggest 2 instead of 3. For a smaller map, having higher bonus values may have a detrimental affect to game play if 1 player can gain control of a high bonus region the game is over. Perhaps I should look to merge 2 bonus regions for a larger region that might consitute a 6 or 7 bonus value, say Kanto with Tohoku or Hokuriku. Also looking at the connection between bonus regions they are the same going in both directions in almost all cases.

Should I look to move territory connections so you get 2 or 3 connections into just one territory?
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby sailorc on Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:25 am

(sorry more on the graphical side) the Torii gate should be toned down a bit. it looks too solid.
also, I do think Hokkaido should have only 2 bonus. it only has 2 borders, which wouldn't be too difficult to hold
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby oaktown on Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:12 pm

The trouble with the gate is that it looks like a photo, while everything else is hand-drawn. You should one way or the other across the map, and not mix conflicting styles. So if you want the gate, redraw it to look like the mountains.

Same goes with the boat, now that I look at it. In fact I'd stay away from any images you find online - apart from having copyright concerns, they just don't fit the look of the map.
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby lancehoch on Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:50 am

RedBaron0 wrote:Should I look to move territory connections so you get 2 or 3 connections into just one territory?

Do you mean that you will add connections or remove them? Right now I think you are at the limit for the fewest connections. If someone grabs one end of the island, they can move one or two territories at a time and crawl across to the other end. Also, the mountains remove any chance of attacking diagonally, so it is easier to defend territories once they are behind your line.
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Re: Japan - 7th revision pg5

Postby RedBaron0 on Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:54 am

Definitely more connection seem to be needed, because I see what you're saying lance, hold 2 territories at certain spots along the map and affectedly you can gain control of the entire map north or south.

I guess the main thing is, there is going to have to be less mountains, a lot less, especially at the choke points.
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Re: Japan - 8th revision pg5

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:44 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Okay, a lot to cover in this version.

Gameplay changes:

Mountains removed from within Kyushu, Tohoku, and Hokkaido. Mountains separating Chugoku and Hohuriku have also been deleted. Only bonus value changed for the moment is Hokkiado from 3 to 2.
In future update I'm thinking about adding a connection between Osaka and Izu-Oshima. This would do at least 2 things: One - Chugoku would easily warrant a 4 bonus value, and would allow for players to attack north to south (and visa versa)within the span of 8 territories (from Kagoshima to Kushiro) and hitting at least 1 territory in each bonus except one. (Hokuriku)

Graphical changes:

Flipped the background left to right and added to the background a partial rising sun emblem. (similar to the Japanese naval ensign) After looking around I've seen the image a lot of places, on a lot of merchandise, and if the community accepts the usage on the map I'll use it, so I wanted to gage that.
Added a Japanese hanging lantern for graphical eye pleasing. (kanji text on the lantern represent "Bushido") I've made the lantern basically hang off the bonus mini-map.
The junk has bee replaced with several smaller versions (carefully redrawn by myself) for the same reason as the lantern. I do want to be careful in added too much graphical nick-nacks that don't have anything to do with gameplay, I can easily see them be confused with a sea territory, so I may want to erase a couple of them.
I finally added the army circles, and I already see that a few will need to be moved. They did not look that bad when I put them there in the first place, but I always seem to lose some color after uploading, even in jpeg format.
Parchment paper added with a redrawn version of the gate that has a kinda charcoal look now and fits being on a piece of parchment. I've added a quote to the parchment to at least be a placeholder. That space may eventually hold instructions and my own personal signature for the map. I do like that quotation though... :twisted:

Enemies you threaten make armies.
Enemies you destroy make graves.


So, please discuss the changes and the proposed changes, also I've got a couple of questions for the Incubator crew on pg. 1. All input is greatly appreciated!!!
Last edited by RedBaron0 on Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japan - 8th revision pg5

Postby 00iCon on Wed Jul 08, 2009 5:53 am

That latest one was an awesome change. I like how the gradient matches Japan's shape. But the red on the ensign doesn't blend in, perhaps a shades-of-blue background? so change the red on the flag to blue.
Plus the dragon looked good, you could have moved it to the bottom edge.
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Re: Japan - 8th revision pg5

Postby ender516 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:48 am

00iCon wrote:That latest one was an awesome change. I like how the gradient matches Japan's shape. But the red on the ensign doesn't blend in, perhaps a shades-of-blue background? so change the red on the flag to blue.
Plus the dragon looked good, you could have moved it to the bottom edge.

If the flag were changed from red to blue it might blend in so much, it would be unrecognizable. I suppose you can try it and see, but I doubt it will be an improvement. I wouldn't expect a flag to blend in anyway.
On the other hand, I kinda miss the dragon too.
Gameplay changes seem like the right thing to do.
Overall, a good update.
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Re: Japan - 8th revision pg5

Postby sailorc on Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:36 pm

great update. I love the parchment. maybe u could change the font so it's easier to read? the flag improves the map a ton I think
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