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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V15)

Postby cairnswk on Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:46 pm

ender516 wrote:Perhaps the Madagascar bonus should be tamed by means of starting positions as well, like the other 3-station bonuses. For comparison and reference, similar discussions have occurred in the Vancouver map thread.

I tend to agree that it is a bit late to add Lagos, but its sheer size does speak in favour of it.


Lagos is added. :)

iancanton wrote:...
is there a different abbreviation that u can use for khartoum, perhaps KRT? i always find myself thinking kathmandu when i see KTM, but maybe that's just me!
ian. :)


Khartoum is now KRT.

iancanton wrote:
cairnswk wrote:does the Ivory Coast Express bonus increase from 3 to 4 or stay the same?

with consecutive non-border stations, this will be the only bonus that resembles the archetypal rail usa bonus. +3 is perfectly good, though i'm happy with +4 too if u prefer that.

cairnswk wrote:Towards starting positions....answer these for me please....assuming there is a drop where nobody benefits from bonuses
1. If you have 26 stations for 2/3 players, how many does the first player get?
2. If you have 19 stations for 4 players, how many does the first player get?
3. If you have 15 stations for 5 players, doesn't someone lose out as soon as they loose a territory?

26 stations gives 8 to deploy, 19 gives 6 and 15 gives 5. 15 stations each isn't a good number, but 5-player is one of the least popular formats, whereas 6-player, for example, is the only number possible for someone who wants to gain a triples medal. i've just checked the similar-sized forbidden city, which has 85 finished 5-player games compared with 281 4-player and 167 6-player games; neither of the latter formats is well-served by having only 74 non-neutral stations.

cairnswk wrote:If ian and nobodies want start positions, where do you want them placed, because to my way of thinking they have to be very strategic in order to stop any first players losing bonuses as a result of the first round assaults.

if we have ATV-O neutral (because la madagascan is the easiest bonus to hold) plus 78 starting stations, then how about LYN-E with CAI-C for start position 1 and TUN-E with PSN-C for start position 2? i don't like TUN-E with CAI-C so much because that combination becomes strong if BGZ happens to drop in this player's favour. in 1v1, it's not easy to conquer 3 of ur opponent's stations on turn 1. in 3v3, conquering 2 stations on turn 1 is also against the odds. in 2v2, player 1 has maybe a 60% chance of being able to conquer 2 stations to reduce player 2's deployment to 5 troops while rolling sensibly, but there's not much we can do about this unless we have 80 non-neutral stations (and we're already pressed for room in the most likely locations).

....ian. :)


Version 15.

I've moved ALg left and TUN up some and added TIP (Tripoli).
ON the Sahara Line, i've added OUG (Ouagadougou).



This now gives 81 stations.
Does this help any?
From my calculations, 81 stations is good for the first drop, but we have 4 beutrals which doesn't bode well for 5,6, and 8 players games (but i could be wrong ;) )

Also i've checkjed the bonus s/sheet and adjusted the bonuses on the map.
http://www.neebit.com/s?8a8b35d6b4.xls
Above is the excel file for checking if anyone is so inclined. :)

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EDIT: i also moved the neutral on CAI to PSN.
I've done this because i think Cairo should be left normal play to start as it gives someone a chance to defend that station in the early part of the game if they want to get that bonus for the Pharaoh Line and then they'll also have to defend KRT also. It will make it a harder small bonus to obtain.
Last edited by cairnswk on Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:48 am

Nice update
Only a small thing....
I don't think that the neutral on N-PRA is necessary.
With 78 (81) regions you have only low percentages that A player or ANY player will start with that bonus. The highest percentage is 3,14% (3,16%) for 3 players games.
And with 78 regions at the start, you'll have better numbers than with 77.

Everything else is ok. :)

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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby cairnswk on Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:27 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Nice update
Only a small thing....
I don't think that the neutral on N-PRA is necessary.
With 78 (81) regions you have only low percentages that A player or ANY player will start with that bonus. The highest percentage is 3,14% (3,16%) for 3 players games.
And with 78 regions at the start, you'll have better numbers than with 77.

Everything else is ok. :)

Nobodies


OK, thanks thenobodies80. :)
I'd also like to see what ian has to say about this.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby iancanton on Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:11 pm

78 non-neutral starting stations is a good number. if u're still worried about someone dropping the +4 blue line bonus, then we can have 4 start positions on all of the blue line stations. as nobodies explains above, the likelihood is low, so it's not essential.

ian. :)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby cairnswk on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:06 pm

iancanton wrote:78 non-neutral starting stations is a good number. if u're still worried about someone dropping the +4 blue line bonus, then we can have 4 start positions on all of the blue line stations. as nobodies explains above, the likelihood is low, so it's not essential.

ian. :)


OK, then if i remove the neutral on PRA, then there doesn't need to be start positions, is that correct, ian?
I would like to not have start positions is possible.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:17 am

yes, if you remove the neutral on PRA you don't need starting positions.
As iancanton has explained, they are necessary only if you are worrried about the starting drop of SA Blue Line; but there aren't reason to be worried with those percentages ;)
Remove that neutral and this map is ready for the gameplay stamp.

Have a nice day
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby cairnswk on Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:29 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:yes, if you remove the neutral on PRA you don't need starting positions.

Excellent, thanks Nobodies.

As iancanton has explained, they are necessary only if you are worrried about the starting drop of SA Blue Line; but there aren't reason to be worried with those percentages ;)
Remove that neutral and this map is ready for the gameplay stamp.

Have a nice day
Nobodies


Done. Neutral on PRA removed on V15. Please refresh to see the change.

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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby iancanton on Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:57 pm

does ABA-O connect with both DSM-M and DSM-K, or only with DSM-M? how can u show this more clearly on the map, since the ferry route has no equivalent on other parts of the map? i'd be inclined to lower the sahara express from +6 to +5 because it's in a quieter area than the other large bonuses, but this will not delay the stamp if nobodies reckons that everything else is fine. looking good now!

ian. :)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby cairnswk on Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:11 pm

iancanton wrote:does ABA-O connect with both DSM-M and DSM-K, or only with DSM-M? how can u show this more clearly on the map, since the ferry route has no equivalent on other parts of the map? i'd be inclined to lower the sahara express from +6 to +5 because it's in a quieter area than the other large bonuses, but this will not delay the stamp if nobodies reckons that everything else is fine. looking good now!

ian. :)

All done Ian. Thanks. F5 please to see changes in V15 above.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby ender516 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:20 am

cairnswk wrote:
iancanton wrote:does ABA-O connect with both DSM-M and DSM-K, or only with DSM-M? how can u show this more clearly on the map, since the ferry route has no equivalent on other parts of the map? i'd be inclined to lower the sahara express from +6 to +5 because it's in a quieter area than the other large bonuses, but this will not delay the stamp if nobodies reckons that everything else is fine. looking good now!

ian. :)

All done Ian. Thanks. F5 please to see changes in V15 above.

As near as I can tell, you changed the curve of the ferry route to suggest that the connection is with the M (Victoria Falls Express) line. This helps, but I think it could be even more unequivocal if you used the colour of the M line on the ferry route out to the midpoint. Making the tiny circles a little larger might help with this, so that more than a pixel or two can be that red. To be consistent, you might do the same using the K (East Coaster) line colour from MPO half way to TLR.
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V14)P12

Postby cairnswk on Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:55 am

ender516 wrote:...
As near as I can tell, you changed the curve of the ferry route to suggest that the connection is with the M (Victoria Falls Express) line. This helps, but I think it could be even more unequivocal if you used the colour of the M line on the ferry route out to the midpoint. Making the tiny circles a little larger might help with this, so that more than a pixel or two can be that red. To be consistent, you might do the same using the K (East Coaster) line colour from MPO half way to TLR.

ender516...thanks for that suggestion, but i don't think it really matters that much, unless someone else wants to go there.
i think that with the size those circles are, they're not going to be much more noticeable anyways. If they were larger then they'd be noticeable, but i think this is really grabbing at straws. ;)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V15)P13

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:36 am

Looking really good cairns!! The ferry route looks fine to me, no need to increase it's size. Now where is that Gp stamp?? :lol:
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V15)P13

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:22 am

Image

A small advice for graphic, some bonus names are still hard to read, specially The Continental,The Easter Coasterand Victoria Falls Exp

Have a nice day ;)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D.Gp] (V15)P13

Postby cairnswk on Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:29 am

thenobodies80 wrote:Image

A small advice for graphic, some bonus names are still hard to read, specially The Continental,The Easter Coasterand Victoria Falls Exp

Have a nice day ;)
Nobodies


Thank you Nobies. i'll take that on board. ;)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V16)P13

Postby cairnswk on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:45 am

thenobodies80 wrote:....
A small advice for graphic, some bonus names are still hard to read, specially The Continental,The Easter Coasterand Victoria Falls Exp
Nobodies


Does this helps any?

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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V15)P13

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:54 am

thenobodies80 wrote:Image

A small advice for graphic, some bonus names are still hard to read, specially The Continental,The Easter Coasterand Victoria Falls Exp

Have a nice day ;)
Nobodies


=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Congrats cairns!! Shouldn't be too long for that Gr stamp now!!
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D] (V15)P13

Postby cairnswk on Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:07 pm

isaiah40 wrote:....
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Congrats cairns!! Shouldn't be too long for that Gr stamp now!!


Thanks isaiah40....

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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:08 pm

I think it's too funny that when I asked where the GP stamp was, the very next post there it was :lol:
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby gimil on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:00 pm

Hi Cairns,

To further address nobodies issue with the legends text, I personally find them readable but not comfortable readable. I think it needs to be a good bit crisper to make it perfectly readable, I am worried that someone with lesser eyesight than myself (with my specs on) may begin to struggle with the texts readability. Also the I and J lines on the legends are of similar colour it took me a few seconds to realise what line was what, someone who is colourblind may be less fortunate.

Apart from that I like the difference in style on this map. It definitely feels African, at least to me.



Cheers,
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:47 pm

Yeah, sharpen the text in the legend. It is a bit smudgy. Maybe try another font?
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby cairnswk on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:32 pm

natty_dread wrote:Yeah, sharpen the text in the legend. It is a bit smudgy. Maybe try another font?


gimil wrote:Hi Cairns,

To further address nobodies issue with the legends text, I personally find them readable but not comfortable readable. I think it needs to be a good bit crisper to make it perfectly readable, I am worried that someone with lesser eyesight than myself (with my specs on) may begin to struggle with the texts readability. Also the I and J lines on the legends are of similar colour it took me a few seconds to realise what line was what, someone who is colourblind may be less fortunate.
Apart from that I like the difference in style on this map. It definitely feels African, at least to me.
Cheers,
gimil


thanks Guys. Does this help any.
I've changed the font completely and reworked the labels.
I don't have issue with the colours between the I J lines as they are distinctly different ends of the green scale and those lines and stations are marked on the map for the colour blind. I've even widened the ticket to make it better.

Image

Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby natty dread on Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:35 pm

Yeah, that looks a lot better :)
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:25 pm

Yea! That's the ticket!! (pun intended). Much better cairns! =D>
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby ender516 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:49 pm

The text is much clearer. Care to reveal a trade secret and tell how you did it?
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Re: RAIL AFRICA [D,Gp] (V16)P13

Postby cairnswk on Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:09 pm

isaiah40 wrote:Yea! That's the ticket!! (pun intended). Much better cairns! =D>


natty_dread wrote:Yeah, that looks a lot better :)


ender516 wrote:The text is much clearer. Care to reveal a trade secret and tell how you did it?


Thanks guys, :)
This map is being worked in Coreldraw X4, but some of these things you whould be able to adapt for other software like PS.
I had to un-rotate the ticket...the rotation is set 6.7degrees -> back to zero.
The font before was Futura Md BT @2.6pts
Now the font is Lucida Sans Unicode @2.6pts
All the text had to be re-done because i had used kerning on the previous text to space it out more.
No change in the point size.
The ticket was widened by 8 pixels, as were the black background text boxes.
There are four seperate texts per line, the DEP-DEST text had to be re-set using grids so that it was just a little wider.
There was a layer that was sitting over the ticket 70% black at 65% fill transparency...it was sitting over the colours also.
I simply moved the black boxes and the coloured text above that transparent layer so that it stood out more, but the rest of the ticket didn't loose its musty effect from the that leyer. And you can see that musty effect ends just before the edges of the ticket.
Then group everything up again and rotate it back.
Hope this helps :)

And for anyone interested....a peak of the next one.
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282 ... a_V01S.jpg
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Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 8:32 pm
Medals: 51
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (2) Map Contribution (36) General Contribution (3)

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