Chicago [Quenched]

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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby Peter Gibbons on Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:43 pm

This map looks spectacular.

Only suggestion I have right now is very small. For the Jefferson Park territory, I'd move the text up slightly so "Jefferson" can fit across without being hyphenated (even with the "Norwood Park" text). If you do that, I think it would leave enough room for the troop circle to be brought down more toward the center of the territory. You might also have to move the rail line down slightly, too.

As it stands now the circle is at an extreme point at an already oddly shaped region--I could see people overlooking it and mistakenly think that the rail territory is actually the Jefferson Park territory, too.
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:50 pm

lanyards wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Scott-land...what can i say, very nice indeed. :)
The only small issue i have is will the map still have the same legibility and clarity for territory names etc, when it is in it's small version size?
I'm in favour of moving it to the foundry. :)


I certainly can't complain about my experience here in the foundry. So nice to see all the veteran map makers [and everyone] in here giving solid advice and being so helpful. Thx Cairns.

I'm wondering if there's another way to resize the image without getting it distorted. I haven't done much with the small version. Actually I haven't done anything at all but resize it to get a perspective. I do lose ALL my lines and borders (well no I get them in triplicate :D )- is there another way to resize outside of Image Size in PS without sacrificing legibility ? I'm afraid the answer's gonna be to basically redo the whole thing. ?!
Basically for my maps I take my large psd file and save a version without the territory text, army circles and sometimes the legend and legend text (depending on the amount of wording and detail). I then resize the small to about 80% of the large and import the image to resize. I then bring the large sized layers over from the large psd file. That way teh circles are not smaller and the text is the same. Even though you will still need to tweak teh text (try 90% smaller to start) it will not shrink the same rate as the rest of the map.

Hope this helps.
WM

P.S. Since your borders are 1 pixel thick, you will need to redo them in teh small version since they will not scale properly.
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby Scott-Land on Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:09 am

WidowMakers wrote:
lanyards wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:
cairnswk wrote:Scott-land...what can i say, very nice indeed. :)
The only small issue i have is will the map still have the same legibility and clarity for territory names etc, when it is in it's small version size?
I'm in favour of moving it to the foundry. :)


I certainly can't complain about my experience here in the foundry. So nice to see all the veteran map makers [and everyone] in here giving solid advice and being so helpful. Thx Cairns.

I'm wondering if there's another way to resize the image without getting it distorted. I haven't done much with the small version. Actually I haven't done anything at all but resize it to get a perspective. I do lose ALL my lines and borders (well no I get them in triplicate :D )- is there another way to resize outside of Image Size in PS without sacrificing legibility ? I'm afraid the answer's gonna be to basically redo the whole thing. ?!
Basically for my maps I take my large psd file and save a version without the territory text, army circles and sometimes the legend and legend text (depending on the amount of wording and detail). I then resize the small to about 80% of the large and import the image to resize. I then bring the large sized layers over from the large psd file. That way teh circles are not smaller and the text is the same. Even though you will still need to tweak teh text (try 90% smaller to start) it will not shrink the same rate as the rest of the map.

Hope this helps.
WM

P.S. Since your borders are 1 pixel thick, you will need to redo them in teh small version since they will not scale properly.



Very helpful indeed. My bonus borders are 2 and terr 1. You're right I'm redoing the entire borders for the small map. Everything else seems okay. Rails will take some time but other than that....it's moving along. Thanks.
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby iancanton on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:20 am

moved into the main foundry. onward and upward!

ian. :)
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby Tisha on Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:51 am

iancanton wrote:moved into the main foundry. onward and upward!

ian. :)


getting there

you caught up with me :|

better not pass me =;
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby Scott-Land on Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:29 pm

Tisha wrote:
iancanton wrote:moved into the main foundry. onward and upward!

ian. :)


getting there

you caught up with me :|

better not pass me =;


What I may have to do to get my map quenched is to tuck it under yours and sneak it through the foundry. :D
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby Gutshots on Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:18 pm

Very cool :ugeek:
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby MrBenn on Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:13 pm

I've been paying a passing interest on the development of this map, but haven't found the time to come in and say what a good job you're doing ;-)

Graphically, there is very little to pick fault with; the primary task from here is to iron out the gameplay side of things... once you've got that done, then I can see things progressing fairly swiftly.

It's 1am for me now, so I'll refrain from having an in depth look until my brain is functioning a little more normally!
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PB: 2661 | He's blue... If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that
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Re: Chicago-- Version 7 Helipads [Pg 6]

Postby Scott-Land on Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:32 pm

MrBenn wrote:I've been paying a passing interest on the development of this map, but haven't found the time to come in and say what a good job you're doing ;-)

Graphically, there is very little to pick fault with; the primary task from here is to iron out the gameplay side of things... once you've got that done, then I can see things progressing fairly swiftly.

It's 1am for me now, so I'll refrain from having an in depth look until my brain is functioning a little more normally!


Music to my ears-- I was preparing for the worse-- just assumed this would be a long and painful process. Thanx for the good news Benn.

---------
Update
Quite a few changes had to be made to convert it to the small version but nothing dramatic. It's all still pretty much there-- just a lot of tweaking.

Using a different font and I'm not 100% convinced although the legibility has improved quite a bit.

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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:55 am

I don't know Chicago, but you had me confused with "el train" being a hispenglish word; "el" "train". Some sort of joke towards the hispanic immigrant community in Chicago ?.
If EL is short for express line or something, please indicate so.
Or shorter "E.L.T." with the dots...
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby barterer2002 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:15 am

The El is the name of the Elevated train in Chicago. Its not racist at all its what its called and has always been called.

Scott, I'm ready to play on this one
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby lt_oddball on Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:53 pm

[quote="barterer2002"]The El is the name of the Elevated train in Chicago. Its not racist at all its what its called and has always been called.

/quote]

I know it wasn't meant demeaning ..but not every players knows the situation in Chicago and it just might pose a bit confusion/frowning.. which can be easily adjusted. :mrgreen:
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Scott-Land on Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:06 pm

lt_oddball wrote:I don't know Chicago, but you had me confused with "el train" being a hispenglish word; "el" "train". Some sort of joke towards the hispanic immigrant community in Chicago ?.
If EL is short for express line or something, please indicate so.
Or shorter "E.L.T." with the dots...


Odd. Very odd.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Blitzaholic on Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:53 pm

Wow Scotty, excellent work for a first version, ad the graphics are outstanding.

3 Questions though


1. where is wrigley park? or did you not want that with chicago map?

2. why red, blue and orange colors for train bonus? why not red, blue, green?

3. how many territories? 55 or so?
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Scott-Land on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:22 pm

Blitzaholic wrote:Wow Scotty, excellent work for a first version, ad the graphics are outstanding.

3 Questions though


1. where is wrigley park? or did you not want that with chicago map?

2. why red, blue and orange colors for train bonus? why not red, blue, green?

3. how many territories? 55 or so?


Thx Blitzy...

1. Chicago has so many fields with the Bulls, Cubs, White Socks, and the Bears. I suppose Cubs is tradition. How were you thinking of incorporating the stadium into the map? To answer your question, it's in northern Chicago in Lakeview.

2. Those colors are the actual el rail lines-- 3 of 8 I think. The Green line doesn't cross the territories I wanted for game play.

3. It's 56 total territories. I did the numbers for 54,55, and 57 and asked George's advice and we thought 56 was the best option. The other amounts gave way to a ton of neutrals.

Starting terrs - deployment
2 players: 28 - 14
3 players: 18 - 6 + 2 Neutrals
4 players: 14 - 4
5 players : 11 - 3 + 1 Neutral
6 players: 9 - 3 + 2 Neutrals
7 players: 8 - 3
8 players: 7 - 3

Also Firstholliday brought up a point.... thinks there should be another small bonus somewhere. Perhaps what about adding Lakeview and Lincoln Park to The Loop bonus that'll I'll make 9 or so. Then I'd have 4 terrs + 1 rail station in North Side bonus @ 3. I've already decided to change West Loop @ 4. Maybe I'll make a quick visual and poll it.
Last edited by Scott-Land on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 pm

For 1v1 games, the territories are still split 3 ways, the 3rd being neutral. We tend to avoid having starting tert numbers that can be dropped Rd. 1 (like 6 here, easily dropped to 5 with 1 tert taken). Perhaps we can find something to code neutral; I'll come back for a better comment. Until then, keep up the stellar work ;)

.44
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Scott-Land on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:31 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:For 1v1 games, the territories are still split 3 ways, the 3rd being neutral. We tend to avoid having starting tert numbers that can be dropped Rd. 1 (like 6 here, easily dropped to 5 with 1 tert taken). Perhaps we can find something to code neutral; I'll come back for a better comment. Until then, keep up the stellar work ;)

.44


Hehee- duh. That's right... neutrals. Works better of course.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Blitzaholic on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:Wow Scotty, excellent work for a first version, ad the graphics are outstanding.

3 Questions though


1. where is wrigley park? or did you not want that with chicago map?

2. why red, blue and orange colors for train bonus? why not red, blue, green?

3. how many territories? 55 or so?


Thx Blitzy...

1. Chicago has so many fields with the Bulls, Cubs, White Socks, and the Bears. I suppose Cubs is tradition. How were you thinking of incorporating the stadium into the map? To answer your question, it's in northern Chicago in Lakeview.

2. Those colors are the actual el rail lines-- 3 of 8 I think. The Green line doesn't cross the territories I wanted for game play.

3. It's 56 total territories. I did the numbers for 54,55, and 57 and asked George's advice and we thought 56 was the best option. The other amounts gave way to a ton of neutrals.

Starting terrs - deployment
2 players: 28 - 14
3 players: 18 - 6 + 2 Neutrals
4 players: 14 - 4
5 players : 11 - 3 + 1 Neutral
6 players: 9 - 3 + 2 Neutrals
7 players: 8 - 3
8 players: 7 - 3

Also Firstholliday brought up a point.... thinks there should be another small bonus somewhere. Perhaps what about adding Lakeview and Lincoln Park to The Loop bonus that'll I'll make 9 or so. Then I'd have 4 terrs + 1 rail station in North Side bonus @ 3. I've already decided to change West Loop @ 4. Maybe I'll make a quick visual and poll it.



oh yeah, good thinking, (another small bonus or 2 would be nice addition) and as far as the stadium of wrigley, I guess you dont need it
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:03 pm

*Graphical changes- used a different brush for Calumet River. Read somewhere that they said it wasn't clean. Made Chicago River a little smaller to see Loop boundaries a litte better.
*Game play changes

1- FirstHolliday suggested that we may need an additional small bonus. Couple of options, one, I took two territories from North Side and added them to The Loop bonus making North Side smaller. Also, I did a different one, taking Albany Park and added it O'hare bonus.

2. Neph suggested that I create an impass for Far South Side making it accessible to two territories as the bonus suggests. It also opened up Ashburn to be adjacent to three territories instead of just one. Killed two birds with that one as George didn't like Ashburn to be so isolated.

Neph also mentioned something about Loop territory-- if it was part of Orange Line bonus. I could see how that's confusing because that's where all the rails cross. It got me thinking if I should make that terr a Rail Station as well, considering in reality it is the heart of Chicago, and if so should it be part of which line or ALL? In the meanwhile, I moved the territory line over a bit to help clarify.

3. Readjusted bonus amounts of other bonuses as well.

4. Removed Roger's Park terr and added one to O'hare-- Edison Park.

Very nice suggestions fellas-- million thanks.

Poll added.

Original
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Option 1: North Side / 4 Terr + Rail, +3 Bonus
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Option 2: North Side / 3 Terr + Rail +2 Bonus
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby murphy16 on Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Very nice map Scott, can't wait to play it. :D
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Gutshots on Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:17 pm

When do you think you'll be done?
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:00 pm

Gutshots wrote:When do you think you'll be done?


Your guess is good as mine-- I'll have an update here in a day or two. Hopefully we can drag Incand's ass in here and give me a GP stamp. :D
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Georgerx7di on Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:02 am

Option 2 by far. 2 looks awesome. I was even thinking of suggesting a +1 bonus on that little loop territory, but then that would lead to unbalanced game play, (somebody drops it). Another choice would be 57 territs with the loop territ being a +1 bonus, but start neutral. Maybe something small like 1 or 2 neutral armies on it, so it would be put into play fast, but nobody gets it for free right from the drop. Just a thought though.

I definitely like option 2 the best though. Much more open. Eliminating someone in standard escalating games is hard enough on a bigger map, best to have some mobility.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:04 am

Georgerx7di wrote:Option 2 by far. 2 looks awesome. I was even thinking of suggesting a +1 bonus on that little loop territory, but then that would lead to unbalanced game play, (somebody drops it). Another choice would be 57 territs with the loop territ being a +1 bonus, but start neutral. Maybe something small like 1 or 2 neutral armies on it, so it would be put into play fast, but nobody gets it for free right from the drop. Just a thought though.

I definitely like option 2 the best though. Much more open. Eliminating someone in standard escalating games is hard enough on a bigger map, best to have some mobility.


I worked on the Loop terr yesterday... it's not going to be a +1 but it'll be a crucial terr to hold.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:19 am

In the two new options, where the river has been extended north, are the Loop and West Loop still supposed to be adjacent territories? It's hard to tell because it looks like they connect north of the blue el train (and the river doesn't extend north of the line). But I'm assuming they aren't supposed to connect, otherwise there doesn't seem to be much point to extending the river in the first place.

I know there's not much room to work with there, but I think it needs to be a little clearer because when the map gets played, people won't know how it developed.
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