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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:30 pm

For 1v1 games, the territories are still split 3 ways, the 3rd being neutral. We tend to avoid having starting tert numbers that can be dropped Rd. 1 (like 6 here, easily dropped to 5 with 1 tert taken). Perhaps we can find something to code neutral; I'll come back for a better comment. Until then, keep up the stellar work ;)

.44
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Scott-Land on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:31 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:For 1v1 games, the territories are still split 3 ways, the 3rd being neutral. We tend to avoid having starting tert numbers that can be dropped Rd. 1 (like 6 here, easily dropped to 5 with 1 tert taken). Perhaps we can find something to code neutral; I'll come back for a better comment. Until then, keep up the stellar work ;)

.44


Hehee- duh. That's right... neutrals. Works better of course.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Update Version8 w/Small map [Pg 8]

Postby Blitzaholic on Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 pm

Scott-Land wrote:
Blitzaholic wrote:Wow Scotty, excellent work for a first version, ad the graphics are outstanding.

3 Questions though


1. where is wrigley park? or did you not want that with chicago map?

2. why red, blue and orange colors for train bonus? why not red, blue, green?

3. how many territories? 55 or so?


Thx Blitzy...

1. Chicago has so many fields with the Bulls, Cubs, White Socks, and the Bears. I suppose Cubs is tradition. How were you thinking of incorporating the stadium into the map? To answer your question, it's in northern Chicago in Lakeview.

2. Those colors are the actual el rail lines-- 3 of 8 I think. The Green line doesn't cross the territories I wanted for game play.

3. It's 56 total territories. I did the numbers for 54,55, and 57 and asked George's advice and we thought 56 was the best option. The other amounts gave way to a ton of neutrals.

Starting terrs - deployment
2 players: 28 - 14
3 players: 18 - 6 + 2 Neutrals
4 players: 14 - 4
5 players : 11 - 3 + 1 Neutral
6 players: 9 - 3 + 2 Neutrals
7 players: 8 - 3
8 players: 7 - 3

Also Firstholliday brought up a point.... thinks there should be another small bonus somewhere. Perhaps what about adding Lakeview and Lincoln Park to The Loop bonus that'll I'll make 9 or so. Then I'd have 4 terrs + 1 rail station in North Side bonus @ 3. I've already decided to change West Loop @ 4. Maybe I'll make a quick visual and poll it.



oh yeah, good thinking, (another small bonus or 2 would be nice addition) and as far as the stadium of wrigley, I guess you dont need it
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:03 pm

*Graphical changes- used a different brush for Calumet River. Read somewhere that they said it wasn't clean. Made Chicago River a little smaller to see Loop boundaries a litte better.
*Game play changes

1- FirstHolliday suggested that we may need an additional small bonus. Couple of options, one, I took two territories from North Side and added them to The Loop bonus making North Side smaller. Also, I did a different one, taking Albany Park and added it O'hare bonus.

2. Neph suggested that I create an impass for Far South Side making it accessible to two territories as the bonus suggests. It also opened up Ashburn to be adjacent to three territories instead of just one. Killed two birds with that one as George didn't like Ashburn to be so isolated.

Neph also mentioned something about Loop territory-- if it was part of Orange Line bonus. I could see how that's confusing because that's where all the rails cross. It got me thinking if I should make that terr a Rail Station as well, considering in reality it is the heart of Chicago, and if so should it be part of which line or ALL? In the meanwhile, I moved the territory line over a bit to help clarify.

3. Readjusted bonus amounts of other bonuses as well.

4. Removed Roger's Park terr and added one to O'hare-- Edison Park.

Very nice suggestions fellas-- million thanks.

Poll added.

Original
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Option 1: North Side / 4 Terr + Rail, +3 Bonus
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Option 2: North Side / 3 Terr + Rail +2 Bonus
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby murphy16 on Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Very nice map Scott, can't wait to play it. :D
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Gutshots on Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:17 pm

When do you think you'll be done?
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:00 pm

Gutshots wrote:When do you think you'll be done?


Your guess is good as mine-- I'll have an update here in a day or two. Hopefully we can drag Incand's ass in here and give me a GP stamp. :D
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Georgerx7di on Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:02 am

Option 2 by far. 2 looks awesome. I was even thinking of suggesting a +1 bonus on that little loop territory, but then that would lead to unbalanced game play, (somebody drops it). Another choice would be 57 territs with the loop territ being a +1 bonus, but start neutral. Maybe something small like 1 or 2 neutral armies on it, so it would be put into play fast, but nobody gets it for free right from the drop. Just a thought though.

I definitely like option 2 the best though. Much more open. Eliminating someone in standard escalating games is hard enough on a bigger map, best to have some mobility.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:04 am

Georgerx7di wrote:Option 2 by far. 2 looks awesome. I was even thinking of suggesting a +1 bonus on that little loop territory, but then that would lead to unbalanced game play, (somebody drops it). Another choice would be 57 territs with the loop territ being a +1 bonus, but start neutral. Maybe something small like 1 or 2 neutral armies on it, so it would be put into play fast, but nobody gets it for free right from the drop. Just a thought though.

I definitely like option 2 the best though. Much more open. Eliminating someone in standard escalating games is hard enough on a bigger map, best to have some mobility.


I worked on the Loop terr yesterday... it's not going to be a +1 but it'll be a crucial terr to hold.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:19 am

In the two new options, where the river has been extended north, are the Loop and West Loop still supposed to be adjacent territories? It's hard to tell because it looks like they connect north of the blue el train (and the river doesn't extend north of the line). But I'm assuming they aren't supposed to connect, otherwise there doesn't seem to be much point to extending the river in the first place.

I know there's not much room to work with there, but I think it needs to be a little clearer because when the map gets played, people won't know how it developed.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:19 am

Peter Gibbons wrote:In the two new options, where the river has been extended north, are the Loop and West Loop still supposed to be adjacent territories? It's hard to tell because it looks like they connect north of the blue el train (and the river doesn't extend north of the line). But I'm assuming they aren't supposed to connect, otherwise there doesn't seem to be much point to extending the river in the first place.

I know there's not much room to work with there, but I think it needs to be a little clearer because when the map gets played, people won't know how it developed.


Those 3 maps weren't updates-- more of a visual to see the North Side bonus options. But you're right, Loop territory has had issues since day one. My next update will have all the rivers/lakes with the same style; something more like Calumet . I'm gonna take out the rails going into the Loop territory to create some more room to see the borders/impass. I tried a magnifying box for that area and wasn't too satisfied with the results. We'll see what it looks like with no rails inside the territory. Hopefully it'll be the last adjustment I'll have to make there.
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:21 am

Not many seemed to like North Side as smaller bonus 7-3 against new bonus up there... -- well not many voted :lol: but I get the gist of it. Lot of graphical changes and since North Side didn't go too well, I cut up east/west of South Side.

Army circles are 20x20. Single digit numbers appear aligned but double 8s are 1 pixel off east/west.

* Changed lakes/rivers to one similar style. . Added another bridge in Loop terr. ( no game play change).
* Game play changes: Took out rails in Loop territory and added 1 connection station-- big game play change for that territory along with new SE Side Bonus.
* Game play changes: Four terr, 2 access points via 3 attack route bonus. Changed helipad from Hegewich to South Deering.
* Game play changes: Decreased North Side by a terr and added Lincoln Park to The Loop bonus. Added Woodlawn to South Side bonus.
* Game play changes: Impass from Wicker Park ---> Garfield Park. Impass from Beverly ---> Gresham.
* Game play changes; New rails, rail stops, rail stations.
-- Clear that Logan Square attacks ----> West Loop & Austin, v.v. ? I sure hope so...
* Game play change: West Loop converted to Territory Rail Station.
* New rail legend ( Does it have to be that lengthy or can I leave room for interpretation instead ).
* Misc graphics-- antenna on Sears Tower; decreased size of Impass signs, Chicago Text/Font, etc.

Jeesh that's a lot of stuff....

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Re: Chicago--[D]Update V9: New Game Play ( Bonus ) [ Pg 9]

Postby Risky_Stud on Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:58 pm

don't mean to put gas on the fire, but i'm confused by 1 thing?

in the upper left corner it say's airport's and helipads cannot
attack each other, but down belowe that it say's 2-way attack
between both. so which is it or is there a trick i'm unfamiliar with?
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Georgerx7di on Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:00 pm

Scott-Land wrote:Not many seemed to like North Side as smaller bonus 7-3 against new bonus up there... -- well not many voted :lol: but I get the gist of it. Lot of graphical changes and since North Side didn't go too well, I cut up east/west of South Side.

Army circles are 20x20. Single digit numbers appear aligned but double 8s are 1 pixel off east/west.

* Changed lakes/rivers to one similar style. . Added another bridge in Loop terr. ( no game play change).
* Game play changes: Took out rails in Loop territory and added 1 connection station-- big game play change for that territory along with new SE Side Bonus.
* Game play changes: Four terr, 2 access points via 3 attack route bonus. Changed helipad from Hegewich to South Deering.
* Game play changes: Decreased North Side by a terr and added Lincoln Park to The Loop bonus. Added Woodlawn to South Side bonus.
* Game play changes: Impass from Wicker Park ---> Garfield Park. Impass from Beverly ---> Gresham.
* Game play changes; New rails, rail stops, rail stations.
-- Clear that Logan Square attacks ----> West Loop & Austin, v.v. ? I sure hope so...
* Game play change: West Loop converted to Territory Rail Station.
* New rail legend ( Does it have to be that lengthy or can I leave room for interpretation instead ).
* Misc graphics-- antenna on Sears Tower; decreased size of Impass signs, Chicago Text/Font, etc.

Jeesh that's a lot of stuff....

Image



I liked the smaller bonus, that's why i voted for option two. Let's be honest, in dubs games, you only go for the small bonuses, unless its freestyle speed. So the smaller bonus would be much better, people would go after it. The bigger bonuses on any map, (eg NA and Asia on classic map) never come into play. The smaller bonus is the better option.

ps. I think red wins this game :lol:
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Re: Chicago--[D] Gameplay Discussion [Poll Pg 9]

Postby Scott-Land on Sat Aug 08, 2009 10:18 pm

Risky_Stud wrote:don't mean to put gas on the fire, but i'm confused by 1 thing?

in the upper left corner it say's airport's and helipads cannot
attack each other, but down belowe that it say's 2-way attack
between both. so which is it or is there a trick i'm unfamiliar with?


It's because Airports can't attack Helipads..... thats why. lol. :lol: 2 way attacks are from airport to airport and helipad to helipad. It's quite difficult to fit that all inside the sign.

I'll put that on my list.

Georgerx7di wrote:
Scott-Land wrote:Not many seemed to like North Side as smaller bonus 7-3 against new bonus up there... -- well not many voted :lol: but I get the gist of it. Lot of graphical changes and since North Side didn't go too well, I cut up east/west of South Side.

Army circles are 20x20. Single digit numbers appear aligned but double 8s are 1 pixel off east/west.

* Changed lakes/rivers to one similar style. . Added another bridge in Loop terr. ( no game play change).
* Game play changes: Took out rails in Loop territory and added 1 connection station-- big game play change for that territory along with new SE Side Bonus.
* Game play changes: Four terr, 2 access points via 3 attack route bonus. Changed helipad from Hegewich to South Deering.
* Game play changes: Decreased North Side by a terr and added Lincoln Park to The Loop bonus. Added Woodlawn to South Side bonus.
* Game play changes: Impass from Wicker Park ---> Garfield Park. Impass from Beverly ---> Gresham.
* Game play changes; New rails, rail stops, rail stations.
-- Clear that Logan Square attacks ----> West Loop & Austin, v.v. ? I sure hope so...
* Game play change: West Loop converted to Territory Rail Station.
* New rail legend ( Does it have to be that lengthy or can I leave room for interpretation instead ).
* Misc graphics-- antenna on Sears Tower; decreased size of Impass signs, Chicago Text/Font, etc.

Jeesh that's a lot of stuff....

Image



I liked the smaller bonus, that's why i voted for option two. Let's be honest, in dubs games, you only go for the small bonuses, unless its freestyle speed. So the smaller bonus would be much better, people would go after it. The bigger bonuses on any map, (eg NA and Asia on classic map) never come into play. The smaller bonus is the better option.

ps. I think red wins this game :lol:


Ya I know George but 1 step forward seems to be 2 steps backwards. I added a small bonus but wouldn't mind another one up north somewhere. Hopefully I'll see a way without having to add / subtract more terrs. Maybe I'll chop up Midway / NearWest Side.

The vote was 2-1 in favor of no bonus up there albeit it was only 9 votes. I'm not sure if it was a game play decision or if they just didn't like the way it looked. I wasn't too excited about the way it looked myself.
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