MrBenn wrote:Am I right in thinking that some territories only consist of the train stations?
ie. Jefferson Park - the territory has an El Train army circle, but no standard territory circle... Does this mean that Edison Park can attack Jefferson Park (and vice versa) or not?
The other thing to observe is that the train lines are obscured by the trees/parks - and this is bound ton confuse some people - especially as those trees are on the legend as impassable...
I know you're getting inundated with advice (which, by the way, I think is the sign of a great map that people are very interested in), but I suggested this very thing a few pages ago, and it likely just got missed.Scott-Land wrote:Jefferson Park does have a territory army circle. It's at the northern tip. Suppose I could squeeze it down by the name if absolutely necessary.
Peter Gibbons wrote:I know you're getting inundated with advice (which, by the way, I think is the sign of a great map that people are very interested in), but I suggested this very thing a few pages ago, and it likely just got missed.Scott-Land wrote:Jefferson Park does have a territory army circle. It's at the northern tip. Suppose I could squeeze it down by the name if absolutely necessary.
I think, now that the army circles are more transparent, this issue is even more important. Given the fact that some territories do JUST have the train stations, people might miss army circles in territories where it's not just the station; Jefferson Park is the most obvious instance (the only other potential one I see is Austin, but I think that's fine) because the army circle is in such a weird geographic extreme. It probably won't work so easily on the most recent versions, but--at a point that you had that area at before--there was enough room to move the "Jefferson Park" text up to be even with the "Norwood Park" text, and then the Jefferson Park army circle could be squeezed between the text and the train station. Again, I'm not sure if that's a viable option now, but I do still believe something needs to be done.
Hope that doesn't come off as too critical. I really do love this map. Have been very excited that this and Vancouver have been moving along recently... see them both as potential favorites.
EDIT: just want to say that I prefer the color scheme in v9.1, though I do think that the army circles might be too transparent
Peter Gibbons wrote:While we're on the subject of rail stations and gameplay... is there any reason why Jefferson Park and Lakeview stations can't attack the territories in which they reside? I'm assuming that the territories can attack the stations, no? So there are two one-way attacks that are then created, right? Maybe I'm in the minority, but that seems to add an unnecessary layer of complexity and potentially confusion.
I can understand your desire for this and it makes sense when you use the term "vice versa," but, as the map reads from my eyes, JP and Lakeview stations cannot attack the territories in which they are contained but the territories can attack the stations. Am I missing something here?Scott-Land wrote:I simply wanted rail territories that were not accessible from 'continent' bonuses and v.v-- it creates too many access points for entering and exiting bonuses...
Peter Gibbons wrote:Scott-Land,
Everything you said was a fair and reasoned response, so I'm not going to address your entire post. I just have one remaining qualm that isn't totally cleared up:
You have a clearly stated prohibition on the stations attacking the territories but a (vice versa) prohibition on the territories attacking the stations is not explicit. That's why I said it looks like there are two one-way attacks that are not indicated at all, but implicit. However, your explanation makes me think that you do not want those one-way attacks to exist because you said you wanted "rail territories that were not accessible from 'continent' bonuses."
I know that's a bit of a convoluted follow-up, but I hope you understand what I'm asking.
Scott-Land wrote:I simply wanted rail territories that were not accessible from 'continent' bonuses and v.v--
Peter Gibbons wrote:Ok. The response totally makes sense and absolutely clears up how you want the map to be and how, in actuality, it will work.
My concern is this: In the legend, next to the circle that represents the JP and Lakeview stations, it says: "Rail stops belong to rail bonuses. Attacks adjacent stations." The legend in total makes it clear that those rail territories cannot attack the territories in which they reside. However, the rail station still physically touches the territory in which it resides--they seem as though they are adjacent because, visually, they are. Plus, in real life, one would be able to access a station from that territory.
Therefore, I think the vast majority of players will make the assumption that JP and Lakeview territories can attack the JP and Lakeview stations, respectively. That's why I was referring to an "implicit one-way attack." And that's the assumption I made.
Your response makes it clear that you don't want that one-way attack to exist. I think this may be a point for others in the foundry to debate because, to me, it seems very weird for territories to physically touch without them being able to attack unless such a prohibition is explicit. I know the el Train is elevated, but I still think common sense dictates that a station can be accessed from the territory it sits in (otherwise, it's not really a "station"--just a point on the rail line, right?).
Anyway, I've made the point I want to make. If others disagree with me I've got no problem with it, but just wanted to fully raise the issue because it does seem like it will confuse players.
Peter Gibbons wrote:Plus, in real life, one would be able to access a station from that territory.
Therefore, I think the vast majority of players will make the assumption that JP and Lakeview territories can attack the JP and Lakeview stations, respectively.
iancanton wrote:the orange line, having only 3 stations, needs to have all 3 stations coded as start positions to avoid a lucky drop. in 2-player games, each player will then start with 19 regions each (compared with 18 without start positions), with 18 being neutral; player 1 will need to conquer at least 2 of player 2's regions to reduce his initial deployment. games with 4 or more players will be unaffected.
the river west bonus zone, which can be attacked from 4 other zones plus any of the railway lines, is undervalued. it's bang in the middle of the map and contests 2 regions with the blue line. positionally, it's certainly a good +4 bonus, instead of +3. would +5 be overdoing it?
cairnswk wrote:Scott-land, hi.
I'm looking at this latest 9.2 version...and have some concerns...
1. I can't read the territory names on the yellow continent, and the orange one is almost in the same ball-park. Any chance of increasing the back-shadow (i think that's what you've got) on these territory names to amke them more legible.
cairnswk wrote:2. The blue on the rivers and train lines and O'Hare are all very similar and not instantly apparent. This causes me some confusion as to what is what.
cairnswk wrote:3. The bridges....this does not speak Chicago to me. It speaks Sydney.
cairnswk wrote:4. Is there any way you can increase the size of the white font for the train section bottom left, there is plenty of real estate down there.
cairnswk wrote:5. The border between Dunning and Norwood Park seems less clear than adjacent borders
6. The text "Rail Station attacks adjacent stations & territory in which they occupy"....do you mean "territories which they occupy?
cairnswk wrote:7. What is the purpose of the light under Chicago? If it's an element of design for the underneath rail bonuses, i don't think it's quite there. Perhaps all that bonus section needs to go on a sign element like you have with the flight and impassables.
Hope this helps.
Lindax wrote:I looked at your map mhttp://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10ate, as I said I would. Wow, all this stuff goes way over my head.
Looks pretty good, although I liked your earlier font better.
One question: Am I correct when I say the the loophole connection station only has one adjacent territory and not multiple?
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