The Third Crusade [Quenched] Revamping

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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:17 am

I agree - very nice work for the first draft - keep it up - proper feedback coming soon :D
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Re: The Third Crusade Map

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:30 am

Thanks for the support!
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Re: The Third Crusade Map

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:38 am

00iCon wrote:I like the way you did London and Paris, otherwise they would have seemed out of action. But i can't see any borders, such as mountains etc. They are an integral part of strategy and without them the map seems "flat"



Thanks!

Well, that was intentional, at this scale I find river crossing and mounting passing to be too much information.

..but if the scale was tighter, and the map more tactical than operational, that would make perfect sense of course!
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:54 am

DJ Teflon wrote:I agree - very nice work for the first draft - keep it up - proper feedback coming soon :D


Thanks DJ!

Actually that’s hardly a first draft :) I’ve got an all small sketch book filled up with drawings and intentions that lead to that map.
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Re: The Third Crusade Map

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:00 am

Wow, your draft is very nice!

Clear ,tidy and thoughtful..i like it! =D>

Some suggestions, critics and historical hints:


I'll be back with more comments soon. :)
Looking forward to your next update.
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Re: The Third Crusade Map

Postby iancanton on Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:09 am

duplicate topic merged with original.

ian. :)
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:48 am

Thanks a lot for your remarks. I’ll try some of those changes in the map and post them soon.

-Jerusalem (the city) has an auto-deploy feature that’s connected to its shield (only shields have auto-deploy). The Kingdom of Jerusalem (the Zone) gives a bonus of 3 and you can make it without having the city itself.

-as for the sea routes, the reason that the lines are crossing is that the seljuks can have instant access to the north of the Black Sea, and on the other hand the Byzantine Empire could move trough all his original possessions without having to overrun seljuk’s territories.
As for Barca, I’ll give it another border or I’ll just maybe do it in West Egypt – that would give Saladin more ground to protect….

-Abbreviations. Actually I couldn’t find any spot where I like to see them in the map design…. Being so:

E.C. – ‘English Channel’ appear right next to it
E. – ‘Edessa’ appears in the small map
N. – ‘Navarra’…. yes, I’m missing this one…. but I’m thinking it can appear in the gameplay when you scroll the game bar – N. Navarra or N. - Navarra (this way people could indentify it straight away) What do you think about it?

-As for the impassables, (I'm not keen on start drawing mountains and rivers in this map - I really would prefer not to) I’ve explained it before, I'll quote it:

"Well, that was intentional, at this scale I find river crossing and mounting passing to be too much information.

..but if the scale was tighter, and the map more tactical than operational, that would make perfect sense of course!"

..ok I'll put my hands on the drawing now! :)

Thanks,
K
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:08 pm

Kabanellas wrote:N. – ‘Navarra’…. yes, I’m missing this one…. but I’m thinking it can appear in the gameplay when you scroll the game bar – N. Navarra or N. - Navarra (this way people could indentify it straight away) What do you think about it?


I was thinking about something like this (or you need that space?):
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Remember that any information you need to know to play a map should be easy to gather by looking at the map itself. ;)

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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:46 pm

Yes, you’re absolutely right. The only problem about that place is that you’ll overwrite the artwork… sadly…
I’ll try something else in the new version.

Something remained unexplained though, from your last post:

-The secondary territories, belong to the mother land (they have the same color but with a dash diagonal line) independently from one another. I’ll explain: If you have the Byzantine Empire you can have a total bonus of 9 (very hard to get though…). But you can gather the initial 5 from the motherland plus the +2 (7 total) from Trebixond or just +1 from Cherson (6 total)
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:11 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


Ok, here it is Version 2 of the map:

-Iberian Kingdoms color now changed
-Saladin’s Dominions in North Africa have a new border. (Alexandria now borders Crete and Cyprus)
-Changed Navarra abbreviation ‘N.’ for the whole name in the map.
-placed starting positions

As for the shields I’ve tried the English and the French you’ve shown (actually I did tried them already) and kept the original ones – they look better in the map.
The Holy Roman shield is equal to the one you gave.

ImageImage

One thing worries me though, concerning the gameplay – could Saladin’s Dominions be too strong (6 troops), being near Jerusalem one can easily get the Jerusalem auto-deploy bonus plus the Muslim Bonus +2… Should I remove the Crescent from Cairo? or Drop down the bonus from the Zone?….. Historically, Saladin was strong, very strong in the region. And he took Jerusalem.
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby 00iCon on Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:57 pm

Holy Romans a Byzantines look like they have to fight each other for east Europe. Since the Byzantines have to put up with the Seljuks, we could throw in a boatload of English or French (although not historically accurate). Actually, why have so much to take in east Europe? (it just gives the Holy Romans too much potential)
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:48 am

That’s why the 3 Zones from East Europe (Kingdom of Poland, Kindom of Hungary and Servia/Bulgaria) only worth 1 each.

I guess that as a Byzantine one could grab Servia/Bulgaria – though will create one more border (Larissa-Servia-Bulgaria, instead of just Larissa-Thessalonica). As a Holy Roman if you take Poland or Hungary you will be doubling your borders from 3 to 6 without gaining any real profit. Plus, almost all objectives are located in the Near East.

Would someone waste time and resources fighting in a no man’s land, leaving the really juicy stuff for others to take? I guess not.
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby 00iCon on Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:42 am

In that case, why have it there at all? You could get rid of bits of Russia and those others, and put in some historical facts where they were.
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Re: The Third Crusade

Postby Kabanellas on Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:01 am

Well, I thought about it.... but I didn’t want to make a closed map rather than a circular one. I want players located in the east to be able to reach the Holy Roman Empire without having to necessarily pass through the Mediterranean.

If by any tactical reason someone needs to pass through Eastern Europe he/she should do be able to do it.
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The Third Crusade (Version 3 - updated)

Postby Kabanellas on Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:38 am

Version updated now. Changes:

-Iberian Kingdoms and The Almohads bonus raised from 4 to 5 troops
-France can now attack Balearic Islands, and reach North Africa through them.
-Took out Melilla from the Almohad Zone to make it easier to reach the muslim bonus (Granada-Tunis)

something still worries me though... the player starting in Leon. Could he/she feel a little inprisioned there?

Click image to enlarge.
image
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