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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:14 pm

I'm using fireworks..... PNG file.

I could transfer to Photoshop though, but maybe I could do the same in Fireworks. What filters are you using and how?

btw, don't get to technical on me, I'm not an art/graphic designer. Just a simple architect :)
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Aug 27, 2009 5:42 pm

Getting to tech. will not be a problem, as I really do not know too much about all of the tech. terms. As a matter of fact, I am not even very computer savvy. I was given photoshop as a gift about 6 months ago, by a friend, so as to have something to do while I was stuck convalescing at home. I first tried to read the manual, but not being a computer person, I just did not understand any of the terms. I was left with just experimenting, and learning on the cuff.
That being said, What I actually did was create some additional layers, and used a variety of different transfer modes and settings. I could go through it all step by step, but it would take up a shitload of typing. I could post each layer here and you could go into each one to see exactly what I did. Do you have the ability to do this ? if not I will try the best I can to explain the steps for each layer. :?
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby porkenbeans on Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:57 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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A little more farting around with the settings. 8-)
BTW, with the land darkened like this, I think that you can change the red attack routes to a light shade of the off white that is already on the map. The red seems out of place to me, and does not really work with this treatment.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:40 am

Ok, there's a way that we could pull this trough. Make all that you're doing in a different layer, and save it (just your new layer) into a PNG file when choosing 'save as'. This PNG file must have the transparency ON so when I merge it with my original file, layers won't over pose.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:33 am

... but I think I got what your making here - you're using the 'brush' or the 'paint bucket' tool with the 'colour burn' or soft 'softlight mode', right?

I'll give it a try and post it here right away
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:50 am

I think its pretty much it, taking Porkenbeans idea of burning the parchement, I think It gives a quite interesting look to the map.

Click image to enlarge.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:22 pm

Click image to enlarge.
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Hope this works, The layers are in order starting with the dark layer. 8-[
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:05 pm

Thanks again Porkenbeans! I think the map, graphically, improved a lot with your idea!! I'll do it in a diferent way. I'll just fill part of the map with a colour burn effect that pretty much does what you've shown.

Lighter version, and better in my opinion
Click image to enlarge.
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Darker version
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Last edited by Kabanellas on Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:15 pm

YW friend,
You have done an excellent job of producing the effect.
2 notes,
#1, the land could use a little toning down with the yellow.
#2, the subtle, but important effect that the white layer on the edge of the water, where it meets the land, should not be underestimated. just that little extra touch of contrast there, really makes it pop. as does the subtle effect of the darkened corners. It draws your eyes towards the center of the map. 8-)
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:57 pm

I know what you mean there.. in the shore areas. I'll try it :)
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby iceco on Sun Aug 30, 2009 10:30 am

One small thing:
Don't save it as a JPEG, it makes your solid red surfaces look ugly (in this case, the arrows showing one-ways). Use .PNG if you can.

JPEG is a lossy format meant for photos. Compressing digitally made things (with complete surfaces in one colour) with it generally isn't a good idea.
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The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:52 am

Porken, I've done a version with your glow layer on. I've put it with some transparency but even so I'm afraid that the map might lose that realistic touch.
ieco, the glow version is a PNG file :), but i'm not sure if this file type is allowed in the game, in the later stages of map development....

V10 with glow
Click image to enlarge.
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V10
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Last edited by Kabanellas on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:09 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 9 - Please comment

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:58 am

What's the difference between a horesmen's training ground and a warriors' training ground? Is it purely aesthetic?
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg5 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:01 am

its just to give a taste of the different races/people

Races:

-Orks ,region names came from Mongolic etymology
-Humans/The Horseman (representing the Rohirrin), region names came from Sumerian etymology
-Humans/The Warriors (representing Gondor), region names came from ancient Egypt etymology
-Elves, region names came from Scandinavian mythology.
-Dark Elves, located in the forest of Logoth
-Dwarves, located in underground tunnels across the map
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg5 - Please comment

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:12 am

Kabanellas wrote:its just to give a taste of the different races/people

Races:

-Orks ,region names came from Mongolic etymology
-Humans/The Horseman (representing the Rohirrin), region names came from Sumerian etymology
-Humans/The Warriors (representing Gondor), region names came from ancient Egypt etymology
-Elves, region names came from Scandinavian mythology.
-Dark Elves, located in the forest of Logoth
-Dwarves, located in underground tunnels across the map


Okay, normally I'd say you're just cluttering the map with complexity but to a linguistics nerd like me this is just neat enough to be worth it.

Still... maybe it'd be good to visually associate the training grounds with the settlements more. Consider putting a little icon indicating race next to them -- maybe ork camps get underlined with an ax, elven towns with a little arrow, human villages and horses with a straight sword -- so players can tell which icons belong to which race without having to memorize the whole list.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg5 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:49 am

But then I’d have to mix a horse, a shield and a sword with every human village icon, cause all villages can make a bonus pair with a horsemen’s t.g. OR with a warrior’s t.g. And that would be complicating the icons big time.

And I think we’re fine right now:
Relations between icons are very perceptible - Elven cities are close to bow and arrows; Ork's camps are close to axes and spears; and Human villages are close to shields and horses.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg5 - Please comment

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:51 am

Kabanellas wrote:But then I’d have to mix a horse, a shield and a sword with every human village icon, cause all villages can make a bonus pair with a horsemen’s t.g. OR with a warrior’s t.g. And that would be complicating the icons big time.

And I think we’re fine right now:
Relations between icons are very perceptible - Elven cities are close to bow and arrows; Ork's camps are close to axes and spears; and Human villages are close to shields and horses.


I guess so. Still looks like kind of a mess. Hmm...
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg5 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:32 am

posting V10 again so we won't lose focus on last changes:


V10 with glow
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V10
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:43 am

Either one works. The version without glow seems more parchment-y while the glowy version is more vivid.

And don't worry, PNGs work fine.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby el-presidente on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:23 am

IF I hold 2 horses, but only one little city thing, do I still only get +2?
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:33 am

el-presidente wrote:IF I hold 2 horses, but only one little city thing, do I still only get +2?


yes, those bonus only work in pairs
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby el-presidente on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:44 am

OK, makes scence. There should be some larger bonuses, to make it more interesting, instead of just a lot of +1's.
Maybe something like, hold all human villages +3 or 4, and something similar for elven towns and Ork camps.
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby AndrewB on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:22 pm

Without a glow for me, even then, the yellow is too bright...
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby AndrewB on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:25 pm

el-presidente wrote:OK, makes scence. There should be some larger bonuses, to make it more interesting, instead of just a lot of +1's.
Maybe something like, hold all human villages +3 or 4, and something similar for elven towns and Ork camps.


You will get +4 if you hold 2 human villages and 2 human training grounds. And +6 if you hold 3 human villages and 3 human training grounds.

So it is progressive, rather then be one huge chunk...
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Re: The Dawn Of Ages - Version 10 Pg6 - Please comment

Postby porkenbeans on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:33 pm

From an artists point of view, I think that your "glow" version is the best. It really helps to separate the water from the land. If you would throw a very dark blue or black overlay on the land, it would also help in this respect. It would tone down the yellowness a bit. It would only need to be very low on the opacity level to achieve this. It is all about subtleness and variation that turn it from "flat" to "fat". :D
On a side note, Whereas most mapmakers do not appreciate my kibitzing on there projects, I am glad to see that you are not so insecure in this respect. Keep up with the open mind, and keep up the good work.
This map is progressing nicely, and it is my opinion that it is up to the level of the best at CC. ;)

Also something to think about, Maybe you could do without the "the" in some of the names. IE; "the" skull peninsula, "the" sea of this and that. less clutter if you get my meaning.
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