Malta [Quenched]

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Postby Lupo on Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:23 pm

I my opinion, you shouldn't mix in the poll the map style and the number of countries, 'cause are 2 different issues. for example i like the "pencil" style, but at the same time i could consider to take in account a major number of countries, if this would help map playability.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:29 pm

Ok I have decided to stick with Version 1 since the majority prefer it. I have tweaked it a bit. I changed the impassable objects as well as the capital city, main cities and land's end images.

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Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:55 pm

Alright, I've got a little more time on my hands now! A few things I'd like to cover...


I'll start off with the visuals, as they are the easiest to comment on without thinking and pondering too hard.
    First off...ah! The map is bright! Not that is necessarily a bad thing, but I think you need a good balance, and a good eye, to make brighter maps work. One thing I am not to fond of, is the White/Cream/Yellow borders. I think you should either look into a black, or gray, to offset some of the brightness in the continents and the ocean.

    While we are on the topic of the border lines, they look a little jagged and unprofessional. I'd suggest cleaning them up a little, and making them a little more uniform and crisp perhaps.

    Now, on to colors--a few are hideously bright. Actually, I'd all of them toned some, but a few need much more help than the others. Particularly Cyan, Green, and Pink. But as I stated, try going for perhaps something not so glaringly bright, but if you like, look to keep the 'light' feel of you have going on.

    The ocean sure is interesting. The texture, I can live with, and perhaps grow to like. But the color might just be too overwhelming, as it covers such a large area. Look into various shades and tones.

    Compass, nice little addition. Perhaps stray away from a bright white, and look to an off white or gray.

    Bonus Legend, again I say stray away from bright, pure white. Once you get the continent colors fixed and changed, then you can perhaps play with the Bonus Legend background and other visuals.

    I'm not too keen on your impassable border graphics. They look out of place in this map. I say keep the 'fence' looking idea, but look for graphics that seem proper and fitting.

    The castles are alright, but perhaps look into other graphics or possibilities.

I'll look deeper into the map, playability wise, later.


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Postby hulmey on Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:18 pm

WEll done great map. Me and my friedns live in Malta. We are about 8 friends working in a office and when we saw the map loved everything about it. The only thing i would like u to work on is adding more towns and cities. You missed out the most populated and largest town B'kara. Me and my friends are going to have a look at the maltese map and get back to you. Again fantastic map. And like the pencil effect.
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Postby Marvaddin on Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:47 pm

I agree about almost all Andy said. Really, this map should be a bit darker, mainly the ocean and cyan and green continents.

Number of countries: really not 44, but maybe 36 would be a good number.

For what that lands end bonus? Is there a reason to it? I think it can be a good idea, but the important cities feature is already enough, I think. By the way, by the legend its not clear the capitol is included in that bonus.

And Gozo area (what a name, in Portuguese it would be ridiculous :lol: ) is toooo strong. Bonus of 3 for 5 countries and 1 border? For what those unpassable making N. Gozo so powerfull? And please note, once you get it, no one else can have cities bonus, or lands end bonus.

Your unpassable are placed in bad places: not many important block Valletta to Fgura, once both are still border countries. By the way, a route makes possible for the Gozo owner attack directly the capitol, too.

So, you need rethink it, the map is unbalanced. Beyond Gozo, South Malta is maybe a good area, and all the rest is wasted. Maybe you could consider add surrounding areas, maybe it could be more interesting, huh?
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:57 pm

Marvaddin wrote:I agree about almost all Andy said. Really, this map should be a bit darker, mainly the ocean and cyan and green continents.

Number of countries: really not 44, but maybe 36 would be a good number.

For what that lands end bonus? Is there a reason to it? I think it can be a good idea, but the important cities feature is already enough, I think. By the way, by the legend its not clear the capitol is included in that bonus.

And Gozo area (what a name, in Portuguese it would be ridiculous :lol: ) is toooo strong. Bonus of 3 for 5 countries and 1 border? For what those unpassable making N. Gozo so powerfull? And please note, once you get it, no one else can have cities bonus, or lands end bonus.

Your unpassable are placed in bad places: not many important block Valletta to Fgura, once both are still border countries. By the way, a route makes possible for the Gozo owner attack directly the capitol, too.

So, you need rethink it, the map is unbalanced. Beyond Gozo, South Malta is maybe a good area, and all the rest is wasted. Maybe you could consider add surrounding areas, maybe it could be more interesting, huh?


Gozo is the English name of an island in the Maltese archipelago. In Maltese it's Ghawdex. Few people know this but it's derived from Gaudos in Latin.

I think I will redesign the map a bit and include 36 regions in fact. There are two borders not one in North Gozo. However I will try to re-balance the map a bit.
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Re: malta map

Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:59 pm

hulmey wrote:WEll done great map. Me and my friedns live in Malta. We are about 8 friends working in a office and when we saw the map loved everything about it. The only thing i would like u to work on is adding more towns and cities. You missed out the most populated and largest town B'kara. Me and my friends are going to have a look at the maltese map and get back to you. Again fantastic map. And like the pencil effect.


Thanks. I will add more regions in fact and B'Kara will be one of them. I did not add more mainly for visual purposes and to a certain extent to ensure that the map is playable.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:27 pm

Ok guys. I have heard you complaints and suggestions and have worked on a new version of the map for the past few days. This is it:

Image

New Features:

1. Map background has been changed and map colours are less bright.
2. Map is more defined and refined.
3. New bonuses and Bonus Legend.
4. Added regions...now there are 42 in total.
5. Added helipad feature. Whoever controls one of the two helipad regions (Luqa or Xewkija) can attack from that region to the other. This also creates another link between the two islands.

I am still not satisfied with the impassible objects, so if there is anyone who can send me an image that I can evaluate and maybe use instead of them I would appreciate it. I am actaully trying to create a rubble wall that are typical of the Maltese islands. This is an image of one of them:

Image

Thanks in advance for your help and feedback!

Andy I will be waiting for your comments as well!
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Postby Wisse on Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:07 pm

i like it ;)
one question: why isn't there any see connection to st. paul's bay?
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:25 pm

Wisse wrote:i like it ;)
one question: why isn't there any see connection to st. paul's bay?


Thanks! Hmm...I didn't want to add too many sea connections cause it makes the map a bit too cluttered but I will think about.
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Postby cowshrptrn on Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:35 pm

first off, change the color of eastern gozo and comino, it looks terrible, maybe go with one of your other textures, those are really nice, i like southern gozo's color-texture mix a lot.

Also, a suggestion for sea routes:

get rid of Qala-Valletta

Add in Xaghra-Valletta, and Qala-St Pauls or Nadur-St. Pauls

Gozo needs more connectivity w/ the rest of the map, and it will also add a more open feel to the map i think.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:08 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:first off, change the color of eastern gozo and comino, it looks terrible, maybe go with one of your other textures, those are really nice, i like southern gozo's color-texture mix a lot.

Also, a suggestion for sea routes:

get rid of Qala-Valletta

Add in Xaghra-Valletta, and Qala-St Pauls or Nadur-St. Pauls

Gozo needs more connectivity w/ the rest of the map, and it will also add a more open feel to the map i think.


Ok point noted, but don't forget that Gozo is connected to Malta with the helicopter route from Luqa to Xewkija.
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Postby Lupo on Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:34 pm

I have a suggestion about Comino. why don't you make this territory belonging to both Eastern gozo and Northen Malta, as it happens for the space stations in the space map?

Or, if you prefer, you could transform Comino into a territory that is not part of any continents, but if someone holds it plus at least another continet gets a +1 bonus...
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Postby cowshrptrn on Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:37 pm

Ruben Cassar wrote:Ok point noted, but don't forget that Gozo is connected to Malta with the helicopter route from Luqa to Xewkija.


good point, point retracted. Forgot about the heli pads. You might want to make it clearer in the legend that heli-pads can attakc each other
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Postby hulmey on Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:05 pm

nthe map is looking really good. Can i suggest having a sea attack from fifla to northern gozo!!
Or, if you prefer, you could transform Comino into a territory that is not part of any continents, but if someone holds it plus at least another continet gets a +1 bonus...

This is also a great idea and you. But also like the idea of the heli-pad. Cant wait to start playing it :)
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:25 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Ok point noted, but don't forget that Gozo is connected to Malta with the helicopter route from Luqa to Xewkija.


good point, point retracted. Forgot about the heli pads. You might want to make it clearer in the legend that heli-pads can attakc each other


Yes, good point. I will definetely make it clearer in the legend.
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Postby hulmey on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:29 pm

hi, western malta's colour code doesnt match the one on the bonus board!!
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:05 pm

hulmey wrote:hi, western malta's colour code doesnt match the one on the bonus board!!


Yes, thanks for pointing that out. In fact I have already implemented some of the issues you all mentioned.

Updated map:

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Postby gavin_sidhu on Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:58 pm

Wow, this update is much nicer than your crayon one. I suggest you keep the thickness of the borders uniform, currently the borders of Eastern Malta are really thick while Northern Malta is so thin,

I like how you have so many continents, what i dont like about them is that in most your continents all countries are borders. Do you have better names then Western, Central, Southern, Northern Malta?
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Postby sfhbballnut on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:06 pm

not bad, I'm not a fan of the textured multicolor, eastern gozo and central malta, but that's pretty much a matter of tastes
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:42 am

A minor minor MINOR country like Malta divided in 9 areas? if you split a bit more we will fight for houses.

Dont exagerate, to 42 countries, 7 areas at maximum. This way it remember world 2.0, with tons of fucking tiny continents. Look at those areas. Red, 5 countries, 5 borders; Yellow, 4 countries, 4 borders; Pink, 6 countries, 5 borders >>> very bad.

Land End: bad, is there any reason to it?
Capitol bonus: bad, its not fair give to one player a bonus when he did nothing. I know, we have it in other map, just one more reason to dont do it again.
Main cities: ok, but you could have one more, or move that one from N. island.
Helipad: ok; maybe you could mix this idea with land end one.

For now, I think you need completely redesign the continents, or add so much unpassable that the map would seem a labirinth. Just my opinion.
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:49 am

The 9 continents give the map something different to the 30ish that are already out there, you require a different tactic to win on this map, dont go change it Ruben
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:54 am

Yeah, but Im sure he can improve it even to maintain 9 continents. 5 borders for a continent of 5 or 6 countries really sucks. And, of course, with this differences, just to remember, it will get some lovers but will be a rarely played map, because people loves classic. :?
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:24 am

Marvaddin wrote:Yeah, but Im sure he can improve it even to maintain 9 continents. 5 borders for a continent of 5 or 6 countries really sucks. And, of course, with this differences, just to remember, it will get some lovers but will be a rarely played map, because people loves classic. :?
Yah something needs to be done about the borders.

Alot of the classic-like maps get forgotten too, unless they are nice visually (like Middle-Earth and Europe). Germany, Canada and Ancient Greece are maps like Classic that have been forgotten.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:56 am

I want to add more impassable borders but I am not satisfied with the graphichs that I am using for the rubble walls.

If you look on the previous page I posted a picture of a rubble wall and asked for someone to help me and send me a better graphic if possible.

Once I manage to get better graphics for the rubble walls I will work a bit on the borders.
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