Malta [Quenched]

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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 5:25 pm

cowshrptrn wrote:
Ruben Cassar wrote:Ok point noted, but don't forget that Gozo is connected to Malta with the helicopter route from Luqa to Xewkija.


good point, point retracted. Forgot about the heli pads. You might want to make it clearer in the legend that heli-pads can attakc each other


Yes, good point. I will definetely make it clearer in the legend.
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Postby hulmey on Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:29 pm

hi, western malta's colour code doesnt match the one on the bonus board!!
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:05 pm

hulmey wrote:hi, western malta's colour code doesnt match the one on the bonus board!!


Yes, thanks for pointing that out. In fact I have already implemented some of the issues you all mentioned.

Updated map:

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Postby gavin_sidhu on Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:58 pm

Wow, this update is much nicer than your crayon one. I suggest you keep the thickness of the borders uniform, currently the borders of Eastern Malta are really thick while Northern Malta is so thin,

I like how you have so many continents, what i dont like about them is that in most your continents all countries are borders. Do you have better names then Western, Central, Southern, Northern Malta?
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Postby sfhbballnut on Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:06 pm

not bad, I'm not a fan of the textured multicolor, eastern gozo and central malta, but that's pretty much a matter of tastes
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:42 am

A minor minor MINOR country like Malta divided in 9 areas? if you split a bit more we will fight for houses.

Dont exagerate, to 42 countries, 7 areas at maximum. This way it remember world 2.0, with tons of fucking tiny continents. Look at those areas. Red, 5 countries, 5 borders; Yellow, 4 countries, 4 borders; Pink, 6 countries, 5 borders >>> very bad.

Land End: bad, is there any reason to it?
Capitol bonus: bad, its not fair give to one player a bonus when he did nothing. I know, we have it in other map, just one more reason to dont do it again.
Main cities: ok, but you could have one more, or move that one from N. island.
Helipad: ok; maybe you could mix this idea with land end one.

For now, I think you need completely redesign the continents, or add so much unpassable that the map would seem a labirinth. Just my opinion.
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:49 am

The 9 continents give the map something different to the 30ish that are already out there, you require a different tactic to win on this map, dont go change it Ruben
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Postby Marvaddin on Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:54 am

Yeah, but Im sure he can improve it even to maintain 9 continents. 5 borders for a continent of 5 or 6 countries really sucks. And, of course, with this differences, just to remember, it will get some lovers but will be a rarely played map, because people loves classic. :?
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Postby gavin_sidhu on Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:24 am

Marvaddin wrote:Yeah, but Im sure he can improve it even to maintain 9 continents. 5 borders for a continent of 5 or 6 countries really sucks. And, of course, with this differences, just to remember, it will get some lovers but will be a rarely played map, because people loves classic. :?
Yah something needs to be done about the borders.

Alot of the classic-like maps get forgotten too, unless they are nice visually (like Middle-Earth and Europe). Germany, Canada and Ancient Greece are maps like Classic that have been forgotten.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:56 am

I want to add more impassable borders but I am not satisfied with the graphichs that I am using for the rubble walls.

If you look on the previous page I posted a picture of a rubble wall and asked for someone to help me and send me a better graphic if possible.

Once I manage to get better graphics for the rubble walls I will work a bit on the borders.
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Postby happysadfun on Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:34 pm

Very good! Just wondering, why isn't B'kara a "main city"?
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Postby Lupo on Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:05 pm

Lupo wrote:I have a suggestion about Comino. why don't you make this territory belonging to both Eastern Gozo and Northen Malta, as it happens for the space stations in the space map?

Or, if you prefer, you could transform Comino into a territory that is not part of any continents, but if someone holds it plus at least another continet gets a +1 bonus...
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:38 pm

happysadfun wrote:Very good! Just wondering, why isn't B'kara a "main city"?


Valletta is the capital of Malta. Victoria is the main city of Gozo. Mdina is the old capital from the times of the Knights. B'Kara is the most populated city on Malta but apart from that it has no historical relevance.
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Postby qeee1 on Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:49 pm

Ok, graphically, it's so much nicer than before, the sea is beautiful... but I don't like the sort of speckled shading on some of the continents, like central malta and southern malta. Also as Andy said, the black lines between continents need to be all the same thickness.

Gameplay wise it's a bit of a mess, I agree we need to reduce continent numbers and borders. Have a look at the Japan map thread to see how it was accomplished there. Also, I'd avoid having too many bonus things-lands end, capital city, main city, helipad. A map should only have maybe one or two. I'd go for the helipad and capital if I was to choose, but the placement of continents should ultimately make the decision.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:34 pm

qeee1 wrote:Ok, graphically, it's so much nicer than before, the sea is beautiful... but I don't like the sort of speckled shading on some of the continents, like central malta and southern malta. Also as Andy said, the black lines between continents need to be all the same thickness.

Gameplay wise it's a bit of a mess, I agree we need to reduce continent numbers and borders. Have a look at the Japan map thread to see how it was accomplished there. Also, I'd avoid having too many bonus things-lands end, capital city, main city, helipad. A map should only have maybe one or two. I'd go for the helipad and capital if I was to choose, but the placement of continents should ultimately make the decision.


Yes, I have fixed the thickness problem in a revised map that I haven't put on yet but it wasn't Andy who pointed that out.

Vis-a-vis borders and bonuses...I am trying to create something different from the other maps here. A player will have to think a lot while playing this map as defending you territory is an important factor to take into consideration. It is harder to defend because of the sea routes and the helipad and the many borders.

Also it makes the game more unpredictable in my opinion as someone who is losing could make a comeback because of these features.

Of course I am not assuming that everyone will like it but that's ok because I am sure no one likes all the maps that are available. Some will like it, others will not but the response has been quite positive until now.
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Postby Qwert on Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:29 pm

you request help.
Here map with stone wall.

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Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:04 pm

Thanks Qwert! The rubble walls actually look better now.
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Postby steve monkey on Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:22 pm

i think the walls look a bit 'turd like'.

The map could turn into a good one though.
Marvaddin, it's true that Malta is a minor country, but it's also one of the most beautiful I've ever been to
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:34 pm

steve monkey wrote:i think the walls look a bit 'turd like'.

The map could turn into a good one though.
Marvaddin, it's true that Malta is a minor country, but it's also one of the most beautiful I've ever been to


Thanks Steve. Don't you think the walls that qwert gave me are better than the ones I used before?
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Postby Lupo on Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:07 am

about the wall, I think the best solution with be something between your previous version and the last one: I mean a medium size wall stones would fit better with your map.

Anyway, I didn't obtain neither a negative feedback about my previous proposal: does it mean that it was too bad or that you didn't notice it?
Moreover in this way the number of continents would reduce (at least virtually)

Lupo wrote:
Lupo wrote:I have a suggestion about Comino. why don't you make this territory belonging to both Eastern Gozo and Northen Malta, as it happens for the space stations in the space map?

Or, if you prefer, you could transform Comino into a territory that is not part of any continents, but if someone holds it plus at least another continet gets a +1 bonus...
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:16 am

Lupo wrote:about the wall, I think the best solution with be something between your previous version and the last one: I mean a medium size wall stones would fit better with your map.

Anyway, I didn't obtain neither a negative feedback about my previous proposal: does it mean that it was too bad or that you didn't notice it?
Moreover in this way the number of continents would reduce (at least virtually)

Lupo wrote:
Lupo wrote:I have a suggestion about Comino. why don't you make this territory belonging to both Eastern Gozo and Northen Malta, as it happens for the space stations in the space map?

Or, if you prefer, you could transform Comino into a territory that is not part of any continents, but if someone holds it plus at least another continet gets a +1 bonus...


Ok Lupo I have tried to do something in between vis-a-vis the walls. I will post the updated image at a later stage.

About the regions I keep receiveing feedback by people who want to increase them and others who want to decrease them. Originally I had a 32 region map and people told me to increase them Now I have a 42 region map and some people are telling me to reduce them. I decided that I am going to stick with 42 as I explained in a previous post, for gameplay reasons. About Comino I think it's fine as it is, however I have never played the space map cause to be honest I was never attracted by it. I will try to play it and see if I can gather something from it. Thanks for the suggestions Lupo and sorry for not replying before!
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:25 am

Here is the latest updated map:

1. I have smoothened the borders of the regions as suggested by Gavin
2. I have created new impassable borders

Andy I am waiting for you to give me a verdict on the map. Where are you!?

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Postby gavin_sidhu on Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:44 am

Well now you can start working on the impassables, your current ones are terrible. There is so many things you can do to improve as your continents are so weird, all of them except Northern Gozo have too many border countries. I was trying to think of borders, but you can do too many things so I'll let you figure it out on your own.

Edit: Border of Medina a bit thick and i didn't know today was the 14th.
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Postby Ruben Cassar on Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:52 am

gavin_sidhu wrote:Well now you can start working on the impassables, your current ones are terrible. There is so many things you can do to improve as your continents are so weird, all of them except Northern Gozo have too many border countries. I was trying to think of borders, but you can do too many things so I'll let you figure it out on your own.

Edit: Border of Medina a bit thick and i didn't know today was the 14th.


Tzk tzk. Are you being a bit sarcastic now Gavin! :p Maybe I live in the past. I guess it's 17th where you live or end of 16th!

About the impassables I am still pondering about them. Send me a graphic for evaluation if you feel like it.
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Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:18 pm

Lets see what we've got so far!

Visual Appeal:
    Hm, well where to begin here!

  • I'll start with the Bonus Legend...the black background is horrendous. It stands out, and the black box distracts from the general 'lightness' of the map. Definitely consider removing it, and going with the background of the legend, or atleast some sort of gray, or paper color. The colors and names in the legend aren't so well off either. I'd consider bolding the names, and perhaps making them larger...you might also have to fiddle with colors.
  • The title and compass are...alright. Regarding the compass, I might the background of it a little less bright white, and perhaps make the Cardinal directions larger in font size. The title works, but perhaps if you secluded it from the rest of the map, by putting a border or such around it, it might make it a little more attractive. And as some people know, I hate 'main focus names'... meaning that I personally like the way painter's sign their works...unobtrusively and inconspicuously placed. I know you as the cartographer are proud of creating the map, but I'm sure all the great artists were proud of their works also, and I see each map as a great work of art.
  • As for the various icons and imagery you have on the map, I actually don't mind the current impassable border icons you have now...though they sort of look like stacks of tires used as walls. If you could edit it to make it look SLIGHTLY more rocky, and less tire-like...that would be wonderful. Regarding the castles and other icons...you've got to consider the perspective you are using. It's best to have a uniform visual point. Take a look at the Capital, frontal view. And now the City and Land End, side perspective view. And regarding the helipad...top down side view.
  • Textures, textures, textures! I like them, but not so many different ones. The 'Sandy Dot-Dot' textures(Central Malta, Gozo & Comino, Southern Malta) are my LEAST favorite of all. They don't seem to work very well. The 'Sea Flood' textures (Northern Gozo, Northern Malta, Western Malta, Grand Harbour) remind me too much of the current ocean. Kind of reminds me of a napkin or paper towel that is grease soiled after cooking bacon or some other greasy food. The 'Termite' textures (Southern Gozo, Eastern Malta) don't seem very realistic. I suggest looking into new textures, perhaps more uniform ones that are more realistic, or at least flow better with the map.
  • I'm not a big fan of the color choices, at least the tones of them. One thing you might want to consider...not grouping main colors near each other... I.E. Red, blue, green. Definitely look into different shades and tones, and perhaps placement of the colors.
  • The ocean..agh! What is it? It looks like a blurred image of an aerial photograph of the ocean. I'd definitely consider using a different image, or different texture idea. The color isn't too bad, but try t make it flow well with the other land areas...so it can actually feel like an ocean, and not a table cloth upon which the continents are sitting.
  • The country lines are alright. Try to keep the uniform in thickness...and how you use them. It looks like Southern Gozo has a border between land and sea, but other areas do not. I suggest making more of those borders, so it doesn't look like the sea is eating the land slowly. Also, what the heck is going on with the Grand Harbour area near the sea? It looks like it's getting burned...as does the tip St. Paul's bay.
  • Font of the map, simple and plain. It is alright. If at all possible, try to keep uniform color choices. Specifically regarding 'Land's End'...they seem to hidden almost...and hard to notice. I'd make them bigger and bolder, though it may be hard the right hand corner. Also, I'd make 'Malta' and 'Gozo' perhaps a little larger.
  • Names...I've got a big dislike for 'Directional Area' names. I'm glad you didn't use such things for countries, but you did for your continents! Are there any names you can use instead of 'Eastern, Northern, Southern, Western... etc? I like 'Grand Harbour'.
  • Attack routes...Eh alright. Nothing really spectacular about them. Though I really do dislike the long routes...Perhaps if you spaced out the line segments, it would make it easier on the eye, and still easy enough to follow.
Gameplay:
  • I enjoy your enthusiasim to put all the bells and whistles into this map, but perhaps having all those extra bonuses, along with the heli-pad, is a bit too much. I like the Land's End idea, because of the placement. I could say the same about the Cities, but I am not too fond of that idea, and I'd get rid of it. I do like the Capital idea, perhaps could keep that one. Regarding the helipad, essentially you've already got sea ports, and I know you are trying to make for easy movement around the map, making so it isn't possible to easily take and defend all of Gozo area...but maybe consider using only a port idea, or a helipad idea.
Specifics:
    (Not including Capital, Cities, or Land's End, or Helipads)

  • Grand Harbour -- 5 Countries, 4 Borders, Bonus of 4.
  • Southern Malta -- 5 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 3.
  • Western Malta -- 6 Countries, 4 Borders, Bonus 5.
  • Central Malta -- 6 Countries, 5 Borders, Bonus of 5.
  • Eastern Malta -- 4 Countries, 4 Borders, Bonus of 3.
  • Northern Malta -- 3 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 2.
  • Eastern G. & C. -- 4 Countries, 4 Borders, Bonus of 3.
  • Southern Gozo -- 3 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 2.
  • Northern Gozo -- 6 Countries, 3 Borders, Bonus of 4.
      ** Now, the idea behind the map, of a quite a few little continents and no real large continents, is one of the newer ideas that has popped up on CC. The World 2.0 map used it, with sub continents and continents. It worked pretty well with that map, due to the fact it had a larger country number to work with. We'll see how it works on a 'small' map in comparisson to it. Border amounts are a big issue. It almost makes trying to grab a continent useless...except for maybe Northern Gozo, as it is a decent area to start and expand. There are a few plans of action out there. You can of course make continents with a few less borders (but still keep in a number that are similar to the current status), or play with the bonus values, to make continents an attractive option to capture. Incentive is an idea to look into...things need to be attractive to capture, or why attempt at all?

Hm, I'll come back and comment more later on the specifics of it all.


--Andy
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Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25532
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

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