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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby iceco on Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:12 pm

Sweet, really a map to brighten up your day. Also love the originality and very sleek design.

One question though:
What is it that resets to neutral? And what then gets the autodeploy?
You surely need to write that a bit clearer.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:28 pm

iceco wrote:One question though:
What is it that resets to neutral? And what then gets the autodeploy?
You surely need to write that a bit clearer.


How's this?

Click image to enlarge.
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http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_8b.png

By the way, guys, tell me if any of these backgrounds strike you as improvements over the white.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:18 am

Oh, and of course the poll wouldn't be complete without the combo option:

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http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_9.png

I'm uncertain about how the records would start out -- neutral, starting positions, or what not -- but there's plenty of time to figure that out.


The other options I'd include in the poll are (and I can pretty the older ones up a bit if necessary):
--] Six players only: http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_6.png
--] Eight, option 1: http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_8b.png
--] Eight, option 2: http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_7a.png
--] Another scheme (specify in post)
--] Multiple versions (specify in post)

Any comments before I put this up?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby iceco on Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:25 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:
iceco wrote:One question though:
What is it that resets to neutral? And what then gets the autodeploy?
You surely need to write that a bit clearer.


How's this?

http://www.freewebs.com/dimagic/ConquerClub/Woodboro_8b.png

By the way, guys, tell me if any of these backgrounds strike you as improvements over the white.

Yes, now it's clear.

As background, why don't you try (orangy) yellow on top and then to the green below? Kind of makes you think of the sun rising at morning.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby RjBeals on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:18 am

nice map - cool 3d style, and very original. Nice job (again) E.D.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:07 pm

I'm liking the progress evil - I reckon you can safely go for the poll - making sure the options are in post 1 for folks to easy find them.

6-player option would prob not be allowed of course but definitely worth having as an option just to show what people think - maybe worth having as a seperate question though (as these folks would no doubt go for one of the allowed options too)?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V3)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Aug 30, 2009 5:31 pm

I guess that's what the multiple versions
iceco wrote:As background, why don't you try (orangy) yellow on top and then to the green below? Kind of makes you think of the sun rising at morning.


That's pretty much what I went for with 8a's background. I tried a more pronounced yellow but it was far too dominant for my taste.

DJ Teflon wrote:6-player option would prob not be allowed of course but definitely worth having as an option just to show what people think - maybe worth having as a seperate question though (as these folks would no doubt go for one of the allowed options too)?


I guess that's what the multiple versions option is for?

Anyway, poll's up! Democracy for everyone!
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby The Neon Peon on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:43 pm

I am fairly there is rule in the foundry that new maps have to accommodate at least 8 people.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:55 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:I am fairly there is rule in the foundry that new maps have to accommodate at least 8 people.


The closest rule to that seems to be

oaktown wrote:Game type flexibility. The map should support various game types and not be designed with specific/limited game settings in mind (standard, assassin, fog of war, 2-8 players, etc.).


A 6-player-limit map supports 70% of possible game settings; and there are enough extant maps with this limit that it wouldn't be unusual if a new one came out. I suppose this rule is up to interpretation. Any foundry sages care to opine?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby Teflon Kris on Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:01 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:there are enough extant maps with this limit that it wouldn't be unusual if a new one came out. I suppose this rule is up to interpretation. Any foundry sages care to opine?


Just wondering what an 'extant map' is?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:20 am

DJ Teflon wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:there are enough extant maps with this limit that it wouldn't be unusual if a new one came out. I suppose this rule is up to interpretation. Any foundry sages care to opine?


Just wondering what an 'extant map' is?


Those that have been published already. Referring to Feudal War, Age of Realms, et al. I'm not sure how many there are -- are there any that were made after the 7 and 8-player options were added?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby captainwalrus on Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:24 pm

I definitely thought that you weren't allowed to make new maps only for six players, and I think that if you do allow this one through, you will end up setting a bad precedent. That being said, I think the idea of the pirate stations is brilliant.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:45 pm

captainwalrus wrote:I definitely thought that you weren't allowed to make new maps only for six players, and I think that if you do allow this one through, you will end up setting a bad precedent.


Would I? I figure if a six player limit is permissible for me it's permissible for anyone. In that case what would be so bad about a bunch of 6-player maps being released? Or specifically 3- or 4-player maps, for that matter?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby captainwalrus on Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:47 pm

Well, personally, I just like 8 player maps, but there have been other maps that have only allowed for less than 8 players and the mapmakers have been told by the foundry staff that all maps need to be playable on all settings. The only reason there are some 6 player only maps is that the most amount of players per game used to be 6. Since they have not let other people make less than 8 player maps, they most likely won't let you.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby sully800 on Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:01 pm

I still think we should be allowed to make 2 player only maps, but I guess that is far beyond the scope of this discussion.

I believe all new maps are supposed to accommodate 8 players, but I personally don't think they should have to.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V?)! -- POLL!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:32 pm

sully800 wrote:I still think we should be allowed to make 2 player only maps, but I guess that is far beyond the scope of this discussion.


Well, as long as we're waiting for the poll, I'd absolutely welcome another controversial discussion on map design limits. Last time it was territory count, now it's player count -- maybe for my next map I'll challenge the established trope that players should be able to attack.
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby captainwalrus on Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:43 pm

I like 8 player games best, but I also agree that there is no reason that you shouldn't be able to haveonly 2 player games if you really want, and I think they would be able to be better for 1v1 than maps that have to be usable for eight players. I am not really sure the reasoning behind having that rule, but they have always seemed pretty set on keeping it.
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:48 pm

Well, the technical bottom limit would have to be 3 since 2-player games divide into 3 parts anyway.
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:02 am

I like option 1, but I think the dish houses are at some disadvantage with a bombard only while the bases have a one way attack. Might have to figure out how to balance that a little more... maybe have the dishes act like antennas and start 1 killer neutral? Or, just make the dish houses radio stations.

Otherwise... if you for some reason get away with having a 6 player map, I would endorse this as the best possible option.

I don't see why every game ought to be available to 8 players... CC will have more flexibility in having games that are suitable for limited players.
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:21 pm

Analysing the 6-player situation, we can state that:

This map has support through its poll for being 6-player.

The advantages of the 6-player option are:
    The map can stick with its' original design as a small map.

    When adding / changing features to accommodate 8-players the map would not be able to follow its original gameplay structure and play would be congested in the central areas in a 7/8-player game.

There are already a number of maps which can accommodate max. 6-players, adding one more would make little difference to the overall choice of maps available for 7/8-player games. :D

I am personally inclined to support the 6-player option, especially as this is a relatively small map with single starting positions. =D> The preference for maps being designed to 8-players is entirely right for larger maps, or maps with more classic-style gameplay. However, if the requirement is universally implemented it means that map-makers are restricted in their ability to construct smaller maps with starting positions - a style of map which would be both interesting and popular. :D

I'll double-check for a second opinion on this as I wouldn't wish for loads of graft to go into the 6-player version only for this issue to come back at a later stage. That would be a nightmare. :(
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:24 pm

Come to think of it, another way to support 8 players without getting rid of significant gameplay elements might look like

Click image to enlarge.
image


Here Roma and Lapid are receiver dishes that work just like in the 6-player option, while Klein and Carlin are the pirates. I'm not sure how they'd behave but I'm not too worried about balancing them against the tower stations because they're only starting positions in 7-8 player matches. However, they would necessarily have 3 neutral to begin with so their abilities would have to be appropriate. Probably they auto-deploy +1 and remotely attack something-or-other-I'm-not-sure. The biggest drawback, I think, is that since the pirates are right next to the dishes, and each station player starts their first turn with 8 troops on their station, it might be too easy to eliminate a pirates right off the bat -- especially annoying in Assassin games. That could be fixed by raising the dish house neutral value to 4, maybe?

Either way I do tend to think the 6-player option as I have it up now might be a bit too simplistic for my taste, anyway. There's room for another gameplay feature, or possibly two small ones.
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:10 pm

Evil DIMwit wrote:
oaktown wrote:Game type flexibility. The map should support various game types and not be designed with specific/limited game settings in mind (standard, assassin, fog of war, 2-8 players, etc.).


A 6-player-limit map supports 70% of possible game settings and there are enough extant maps with this limit that it wouldn't be unusual if a new one came out..


Map with less than 8 players aren't forbidden, but discouraged.

lackattack wrote:Since the precedent has been set for hard-coding players per map, I wouldn't say it is forbidden. But it should be discouraged and only approved if the map is really something special.


You've already found some possible variants that support 8 players and my advice is to develop one of these options.
Generally, maps limited to less than 8 players are welcome only in execeptional cases and if the gameplay is affected by the presence of two additional players.
However,it is good practice to develope each map without a specific limit for type or number of players (specially with your good, and working, variants ;) )

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With all these versions i'd like to postpone a bit any suggestions, but my personal choice was for 8 players combo.

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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:18 pm

Loud and clear. Looks like we have plenty of 8-player possibilities to go around which I would not mind implementing at all. Maybe one day I'll try for a map exceptional enough for the limit, but not today.
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Re: Woodboro (POLL, Spirited Discussion of Foundry Conventions)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:25 pm

It looks like the leaders in the poll are allowing only 6 players (which I think isn't vital enough for this map to justify) or the 8-player combo option. Thanks to everyone who's voted so far. My question for you now: What about these versions made them preferable for you?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (POLL; V???)!

Postby captainwalrus on Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:38 am

I really like the concept of the pirate radio stations, and they seem balanced, since they have more places that they can easily attack things and are in the middle of everything, kind of like china in classic.
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