Good Morning Woodboro (V7.X) -- Home for the Holidays

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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4)! -- Enough with the poll already

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:25 am

Poll Result

Which gameplay version would you prefer?

6 players is enough for me.....8.....47%

8-player option 1, matey!.....2.....12%

8-player option 2, homeslice!.....2.....12%

8-player combo, reminds me of pizza.....4.....24%

Another scheme; I'll tell you about it in a post......0.....No votes

You should have multiple versions; I'll tell you which in a post......1.....6%

Total votes : 17

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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4)!

Postby Teflon Kris on Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:03 pm

Cool - good work Evil - the map is looking pretty damn good in my view =D>

I agree with nobodies comment earlier - extra features are up to you but certainly not a necessity. :D

The big gameplay consideration is whether player 1 gets a big advantage - to be at that stage of thinking is pretty advanced considering you are still in the drafting room. I cant see any major adjustments needed, possibly just neutral values tinkering as nobodies said.

Thinking it through quickly (2-6 player scenario) - player 1 starts with 8 - he has to defeat 9 altogether (leaving doods behind along the way) to take another station. Unlikely enough to not be a problem. By the second round the chances are not really any better if the others have started cautiously and have doods on their bases. I can't see a problem - battles over the sponsors and pirates are most likely after a couple of rounds where everyone has had some auto-deploys to be able to compete, regardless of starting order. Single starting positions eliminate drop-worries and the varying value of neutrals, and the antenna killer neutral, means getting a card is equally really easy in card games. :D Anyone disagree and see any problems?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:17 pm

Yarr, this map 's it is be lookin' 's hectic as a mess deck short o' rum. I'm thinkin' o' bringin' every neutral tarrritory's count up by one. 'Tbe a slightly slower game but battles o' eight would no longer leave unlucky playarrrs walkin' th' plank. I smell in this map good p'tential fer 4-man crews, an' I be loath t'waste it.

What do ye think, mateys? Be five neutral men too many t'make a sponsarrr worth takin'?
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Re: Good Marrrning Woodboro (V4)! - Happy Talk Like A Pirate Day

Postby iceco on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:12 am

't might be too much rum fer one sailor, matey. D'ye think it'a be possible to only do that fer 8 player games and leave et out fer the other gameys.
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Re: Good Marrrning Woodboro (V4)! - Happy Talk Like A Pirate Day

Postby Teflon Kris on Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:01 am

Sadly cant see the xml allowing different neutral values for different player #s.

Increasing the sponsors value isn't a bad idea. :D Although, I would advocate keeping the antennas as 1s - medium-sized neutrals are where bad luck can deplete players.

Bear in mind, that however hard you try to make the game work for 8-players, quads on non-huge maps are all about eliminating a target quickly. On this kind of map - the team going first will possibly load up the 4th player in their team who will then attack the fourth opponent before he has had his turn - pushed along and off tha plank beefore ee eeven aad charnse too wake aap and take a shotta tha ole rum. To legislate against this might seriously undermine your gameplay for other games. If doods want to play quads they should be looking at the big maps really.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:33 am

DJ Teflon wrote:Increasing the sponsors value isn't a bad idea.

I dunno, I feel like by the time you get to conquering sponsors the games will move fast enough that having to wait three turns to break even on your troop investment (assuming a 1:1 troop loss in the assault) wouldn't be worth it -- but two might. I'm keeping it 4 for now unless someone wants to prove me wrong with some math.

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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:40 pm

So, uh, what's next? Any other potential improvements? Community support? Just kinda waiting around? I dunno if I can think of any major changes to make.

Edit: Woo.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:52 pm

Is there anyway to make the antennas on the Pirate Stations stand out a little more. I think once you have color coded numbers in there then it will be obvious where the starting positions are, but as it stands now, there's quite a bit of looking involved in finding the Pirate Stations (for example, the first antenna on Carlin is a bit blurred with the grass on Dean's house). Perhaps you could make them white antennas or something?

Is it really necessary that the pirate stations can one way attack the dish houses? I mean, they're right next to them...

To be honest, I think everything looks good enough on this to move on to the main foundry. The graphics are great save for a few touch ups and the gameplay seems pretty solid at this point.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:49 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Is there anyway to make the antennas on the Pirate Stations stand out a little more. I think once you have color coded numbers in there then it will be obvious where the starting positions are, but as it stands now, there's quite a bit of looking involved in finding the Pirate Stations (for example, the first antenna on Carlin is a bit blurred with the grass on Dean's house). Perhaps you could make them white antennas or something?


Y'know, it so happens I don't fully like representing the pirates with extra antennas but sadly I haven't found any way better to make them distinct in their outline from all of the regular houses (I tried the antennas in white and believe me it didn't look better). However it should be the color that really distinguishes pirates from all of the rest so unless someone thinks there's a problem it doesn't seem too bad that all the antennas on Carlin and Klein aren't as visible as they could be.

Industrial Helix wrote:Is it really necessary that the pirate stations can one way attack the dish houses? I mean, they're right next to them...

You see, each pirate station can also connect to the dish house away from it, forming a bridge that goes over the lake in the middle thus taking some pressure off Grass Land and Slaydio (though to be fair this extension's a lot more significant going from Carlin to Roma than going from Klein to Lapid and perhaps I should just make the dishes connect to each other instead).
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:29 pm

I don't see big problems.
This one is a nice and funny map.
A good idea, a good development....

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Onward and Upward!

;)

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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby MrBenn on Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:01 pm

I like the idea of this, but am struggling to get my head around which territories are your planned starts?

For the sponsor territories, have you thought about a more industrial looking building of some description?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:23 pm

MrBenn wrote:For the sponsor territories, have you thought about a more industrial looking building of some description?


Hm. The icons currently on the map are meant to represent the sponsors' private homes, the wealthier ones in the neighborhood. Actually representing businesses is a good idea, though, and I'll see if I can put together a decent-looking picture.

MrBenn wrote:I like the idea of this, but am struggling to get my head around which territories are your planned starts?


It's like this:
- Every territory is coded with a neutral value to start with except the six radio station bases and the two pirate stations
- The radio station bases are coded as a set of starting positions. We'll represent them with square brackets below, with the pirate as round brackets: [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]( )( )
- If there are more than 6 players, there aren't enough starting positions for all the players so they get ignored, and all types of stations are pooled together and each player gets one.
7: [r][g][b][y][p][c](o)(N) or [r](g)[b][y](p)[c][o][N] or [r][g][b](y)[p][c](o)[N], etc.
8: (r)(g)[b][y][p][c][o][s] or [r](g)[b][y][p][c](o)[s] or [r][g](b)(y)[p][c][o][s], etc.

- If there are 6 or fewer players, the main stations are divided evenly:
2: [r][g][r][g][r][g]( )( )
3: [r][g][b][r][g][b]( )( )
4: [r][g][b][y][ ][ ]( )( )
5: [r][g][b][y][p][ ]( )( )
6: [r][g][b][y][p][c]( )( )

In four of these situations, there aren't enough territories remaining to split up among the players, so the remainder become neutral:
2: [r][g][r][g][r][g](N)(N) (since the 'neutral player' is now considered)
3: [r][g][b][r][g][b](N)(N)
5: [r][g][b][y][p][N](N)(N)
6: [r][g][b][y][p][c](N)(N)

In 4-player games (and this is something I just noticed but I can't think of a way to fix it) the remaining four non-neutral territories get split among the four players:
4: [r][g][b][y] [r][g](b)(y) or [r][g][b] [y](r)[g][b](y) or [r][g][b][y] [r](g)(b)[y], etc.

(Each set of brackets above represents a random station, of course)

The upshot: The pirate stations both necessarily start neutral for 2,3,5, and 6-player games. Otherwise they are distributed along with the regular stations (and in a 4-player game it's impossible for one player to start with both pirate stations).
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby MrBenn on Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:14 pm

Thanks for that ;-)

The starting positions don;t quite work like that - the positions are randomly assigned to players, so there is the possibility that the same player could get both pirate stations in 2, 3 or 4 player games...
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:36 pm

MrBenn wrote:The starting positions don;t quite work like that - the positions are randomly assigned to players, so there is the possibility that the same player could get both pirate stations in 2, 3 or 4 player games...


Code: Select all
<positions>
   <position>
      <territory>Slaydio</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Polka Spot</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Ball Pit</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Grass Land</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Urbanicity</territory>
   </position>
   <position>
      <territory>Chat Channel</territory>
   </position>
</positions>


So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby MrBenn on Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:05 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

No - the starting positions are randomly assigned. Any surplus are then put into the standard pot to be dished out, unless they are coded as underlying neutral starts.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:37 am

MrBenn wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

No - the starting positions are randomly assigned. Any surplus are then put into the standard pot to be dished out, unless they are coded as underlying neutral starts.


So much I understand; that implies that the program's process is:
A) Randomly assign as many starting positions as possible to the players such that every player gets an equal amount
B) Put the surplus of these into the standard pot
C) Divide the standard pot equally among the number of players (or the number of players plus 1 for 2-player games)
D) Make the remainder neutral

Is this inaccurate?
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:49 pm

As far as sponsors go, what do people think of this for more commercial icons:
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Or alternatively a more industrial ground:
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:49 pm

Second one would be better IMO.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby targetman377 on Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:29 pm

the last one is better easier to see where they are.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Teflon Kris on Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:45 pm

Starting Positions

Would it work if:
    * The 6 legal stations are start positions

    * The 2 pirate stations are set as normal territories to be dished-out

    * Everything else is coded neutral.


I would imagine that in this scenario:
    * In 1-6 player games the pirates start neutral since 2 territories cant be shared out (remainder 2 start neutral). So everyone gets a share of the legal stations (1,2 or 3).

    * In 7-8 player games there aren't enough starting positions so they get thrown in the 'pot', along with the 2 pirate stations, making 8 teritories to be shared-out - 1 each :D (1 remainder being neutral in 7-player games).


Objective

The first post suggests the objective might be to hold 5 of the 6 legal stations? If so, whack in a one-liner for the wannabe air-wave comtrollers. Holding 5 of the 6 stations is pretty much a guarantee of winning - a bit like the Europe 1914 or Peloponnesian War objectives - and so maybe not necessary?


General Gameplay

Single-territory starts reduce player 1 advantages (and that it is not realistically possible to attack an oppoment first turn) - the more turns the players are kept apart the more any advantage diminishes, The only trouble could be in trips or quads where teams load up one player to take out aN opponent quickly - however, this wouldn't be an issue unique to this map.

Advancing in the game would most likely revolve around holding sponsors and pirate stations - and timing when to attack them. With legal stations being protected behind neutrals, player 1 may be able to hain an advantage by taking a pirate and leaving all his/her troops there? It would probably be risky though. Hmmm. What do you think?

It would all be much different in 7/8 player games as the pirate stations would be closer to sponsors, but also easy to attack at the start of the game. I imagine gameplay for 7/8 players wouldn't be as good as for fewer players, but a drawback I would like to think can be accepted given the uniqueness of the map as a small base-style map.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:42 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:Starting Positions

Would it work if:
    * The 6 legal stations are start positions

    * The 2 pirate stations are set as normal territories to be dished-out

    * Everything else is coded neutral.


I would imagine that in this scenario:
    * In 1-6 player games the pirates start neutral since 2 territories cant be shared out (remainder 2 start neutral). So everyone gets a share of the legal stations (1,2 or 3).

    * In 7-8 player games there aren't enough starting positions so they get thrown in the 'pot', along with the 2 pirate stations, making 8 teritories to be shared-out - 1 each :D (1 remainder being neutral in 7-player games).


That's essentially what I described above; I'm waiting to Benn to confirm whether or not this would work.

DJ Teflon wrote:Objective

The first post suggests the objective might be to hold 5 of the 6 legal stations? If so, whack in a one-liner for the wannabe air-wave comtrollers. Holding 5 of the 6 stations is pretty much a guarantee of winning - a bit like the Europe 1914 or Peloponnesian War objectives - and so maybe not necessary?


Pretty much dropped the objective. No need to overcomplicate things.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:56 am

Evil DIMwit wrote:
MrBenn wrote:
Evil DIMwit wrote:So the regular stations should be distributed before the pirates, no?

No - the starting positions are randomly assigned. Any surplus are then put into the standard pot to be dished out, unless they are coded as underlying neutral starts.


So much I understand; that implies that the program's process is:
A) Randomly assign as many starting positions as possible to the players such that every player gets an equal amount
B) Put the surplus of these into the standard pot
C) Divide the standard pot equally among the number of players (or the number of players plus 1 for 2-player games)
D) Make the remainder neutral

Is this inaccurate?


No it's correct.
A)true, equally and randomly assigned to players
B)True, if not coded as an underlying neutral
C)True
D)True

But, in a 4players game, with 6 SP, 2 standard regions and everything else neutral.

A) each player will receive 1 SP
B)2 SP will be put in the standard drop
C)4 regions in the pot for 4 players --> 1 for each player no neutral

in a 4 player game each player will start with 2 regions, so pirate stations aren't assigned only in 8 players games and a player could start with 2 pirate stations...maybe this is what Mr.Benn was referring to... :-k

Nobodies ;)

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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Teflon Kris on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:04 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:But, in a 4players game, with 6 SP, 2 standard regions and everything else neutral.

A) each player will receive 1 SP
B)2 SP will be put in the standard drop
C)4 regions in the pot for 4 players --> 1 for each player no neutral

in a 4 player game each player will start with 2 regions, so pirate stations aren't assigned only in 8 players games and a player could start with 2 pirate stations...maybe this is what Mr.Benn was referring to... :-k

Nobodies ;)


If the normal stations were SPs then in this 4-player scenario, wouldn't each player get 1 SP & their 2nd region being either a SP or a pirate? If the pirates were the SPs then one player could get both in 4P games.

Either way, it is a good point, pirates would enter the popular 4-player format (incl. 4P Dubs) - ouch !
Last edited by Teflon Kris on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:10 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:But, in a 4players game, with 6 SP, 2 standard regions and everything else neutral.

A) each player will receive 1 SP
B)2 SP will be put in the standard drop
C)4 regions in the pot for 4 players --> 1 for each player no neutral

in a 4 player game each player will start with 2 regions, so pirate stations aren't assigned only in 8 players games and a player could start with 2 pirate stations...maybe this is what Mr.Benn was referring to... :-k

Nobodies ;)


In this 4-player scenario wouldnt each player get 1 SP & their 2nd region being either a SP or a pirate?

Either way, it is a good point, pirates would enter the popular 4-player format (incl. 4P Dubs) - ouch !


yes, 1SP and 1 pirate
Sorry ;)

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Re: Good Morning Woodboro (V4.1)!

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:34 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:Either way, it is a good point, pirates would enter the popular 4-player format (incl. 4P Dubs) - ouch !


I guess there'd be a 1/3 chance of one team holding both pirates. I'm not quite sure if that's a problem, though, and if it is, how to fix it.
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