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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Risky_Stud on Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:24 pm

Great job! But.
2 thing's, i feel the canada bonus is to large to try and hold and
nobody is even gonna try for it. Maybe try spliting between manitoba
and saskatchewan and call them canada east and canada west.
the other is the color of the water. it's ok everywhere except the
river going in by arizona. it's a little blurring.

Other than that it's thumb's up from me. :D
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4* - pg.7

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:26 pm

isaiah40 wrote:All regions are randomly assigned? Yes all regions are randomly assigned
There are some neutrals or starting positions? All capitals start with 10 neutral - possibly 5 neutral.
How capitals will be assigned to players? See above answer ;)

waseemalim wrote:its too onerous to have 5 neutrals on capitals. the east europe WW2 map has only 3 neutrals on the capitals -- and they never come into play. Granted that capitals are essential for bonuses in this case, but the neutrals really make it a pain -- especially in team games. My bet would be that most teams would ignore the capitals and try to go for elims, given the high terr count of this map.

Suggestion -- make capitals a neutral 1 or 2.


I'll try to mix the two things ;)
88 regions is a good number, but you have 14 neutral regions (capitals)
88-14=74 regions (starting pot)

74 isn't a good number, because the first player could take an advantage taking only one territory from his opponent.

1vs1 and 1vs1vs1
each player will start with 24 regions
4 players
each player will start with 18 regions
6 players (less important)
each player will start with 12 regions

You could code 8 capitals as starting positions and leave only 6 regions neutral.
First each player will start with
1vs1 28 regions
1vs1vs1 26 regions
4 players 20 regions
etc etc

But i have to think better about how bombardments will work in this way :-k

I have to agree with waseemalim, specially if you have to fight against 5 neutral troops and then be bombarded when you ended your turn.

My opinion (feel you free not to follow it ;) ) is to code the capitals as S.P. and to get rid of bombardments.
Maybe leave the capitals with 5 neutral but increase the bonus (maybe 2)?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:52 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
I'll try to mix the two things ;)
88 regions is a good number, but you have 14 neutral regions (capitals)
88-14=74 regions (starting pot)

74 isn't a good number, because the first player could take an advantage taking only one territory from his opponent.

1vs1 and 1vs1vs1
each player will start with 24 regions
4 players
each player will start with 18 regions
6 players (less important)
each player will start with 12 regions

You could code 8 capitals as starting positions and leave only 6 regions neutral.
First each player will start with
1vs1 28 regions
1vs1vs1 26 regions
4 players 20 regions
etc etc

But i have to think better about how bombardments will work in this way :-k

I have to agree with waseemalim, specially if you have to fight against 5 neutral troops and then be bombarded when you ended your turn.

My opinion (feel you free not to follow it ;) ) is to code the capitals as S.P. and to get rid of bombardments.
Maybe leave the capitals with 5 neutral but increase the bonus (maybe 2)?


Okay, so how about we have 8 capitals as SP, can we code it so that only the number of players in the game get one capital each and the rest are at 5 neutral? We can do that. If we do it then yes we will have to get rid of the bombardments.

Bonus for the capitals then would be set at +2 for two? Hmmm ... How about for every capital you hold there will be a +1 or a +3 auto deploy? Instead of the capitals bombarding each other we could have them attack each other and then you would have to conquer the whole map instead of holding all the capitals?

In my opinion, whatever the best game play is I'll just about go for it.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby RedBaron0 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:39 pm

Looking pretty good Isaiah, starting positions might be the best way to go here, and the other capitals starting as neutrals will be best, but you don't need to have them be at 5, 2 or 3 should be fine, it give a player a change to conquer on the first turn, but also a chance that the 3 neutral to kick the players ass too. ;) Autodeploy I think is best for the capitals, think of it as a recruiting station and the strongest influence is going to be at the capital itself and the armies are raised there. And don't have the capitals bombard each other, would make the game too imbalanced to players going first and getting the first sets in Flat and escalating games. Perhaps capturing the capitals can be a game objective?

Some nitpicks on the map itself...
Drop the opacity on the army circles some, let them blend into the map somewhat, the circles are just supposed to be light enough to allow us to see the numbers, try putting some "88"s on the map and you'll see what I mean. Find something besides those stars to mark the capitals, they seem kinda eh... either something unique in each capital territory or a uniform marker, like you have, but the star you have just isn't that good looking to me. Area 51 is in New Mexico, (or... it's not there depending on who you listen to. :lol: 8-[ ) not Nevada... if you want a short name to fit in there, I suggest "Reno" And think about adding a legend somewhere that explains your abbreviations, most people in America take for granted the use of 2 letter codes representing the states, not everyone is going to recognize them.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:59 pm

RedBaron0 wrote:Looking pretty good Isaiah, starting positions might be the best way to go here, and the other capitals starting as neutrals will be best, but you don't need to have them be at 5, 2 or 3 should be fine, it give a player a change to conquer on the first turn, but also a chance that the 3 neutral to kick the players ass too. ;) Autodeploy I think is best for the capitals, think of it as a recruiting station and the strongest influence is going to be at the capital itself and the armies are raised there. And don't have the capitals bombard each other, would make the game too imbalanced to players going first and getting the first sets in Flat and escalating games. Perhaps capturing the capitals can be a game objective?

Some nitpicks on the map itself...
Drop the opacity on the army circles some, let them blend into the map somewhat, the circles are just supposed to be light enough to allow us to see the numbers, try putting some "88"s on the map and you'll see what I mean. Find something besides those stars to mark the capitals, they seem kinda eh... either something unique in each capital territory or a uniform marker, like you have, but the star you have just isn't that good looking to me. Area 51 is in New Mexico, (or... it's not there depending on who you listen to. :lol: 8-[ ) not Nevada... if you want a short name to fit in there, I suggest "Reno" And think about adding a legend somewhere that explains your abbreviations, most people in America take for granted the use of 2 letter codes representing the states, not everyone is going to recognize them.


I am still thinking of capturing all the capitals as the objective. I know they are spread out enough to where you have to go through a lot of men to get the objective.

So 3 neutral it would be then on the other capitals.

AS for the army circles, I know they have to be done just didn't do it on the large map. I did it on the small map and everything looked fine, but I am concentrating on the large one.

And a little nitpick for you: Arrea 51 is in Nevada not New Mexico. I was in the Air Force in New Mexico and the talk put it in Nevada. Besides, who wants to go out into the middle of nowhere to try and find it. Of course the best place to find would be right under our noses :lol:
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby soundman on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:19 pm

I'm thinking if you go with 8 capitals as starting points then they shouldn't be able to bombard or attack one another. And I like the auto-deploy on them. I agree with RedBaron0 that you should try and find something different than the stars. I'm wondering if you could do something fun with "Area 51".... Also I noticed when you did the 4.2 update you only showed the map on the first page, could you also put it in your current post so I can look at it as I read your changes? Thanks.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:15 pm

You have some 4 way corner borders (Metis area and Cuba area)
this might cause confusion and game-play concerns but should be easy to fix
Risky_Stud wrote:2 thing's, I feel the canada bonus is to large to try and hold and
nobody is even gonna try for it. Maybe try splitting between Manitoba
and Saskatchewan and call them Canada east and Canada west.

Where have i seen that before ;)
Now that the the Canadian national hover train has been removed i have to agree that maybe another bonus up north might be a good idea but I thing since Canada only has one road I'm more in favor of having a road bonus making the large bonus more attractive.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:26 pm

Danyael wrote:You have some 4 way corner borders (Metis area and Cuba area)
this might cause confusion and game-play concerns but should be easy to fix

Where have i seen that before ;)
Now that the the Canadian national hover train has been removed i have to agree that maybe another bonus up north might be a good idea but I thing since Canada only has one road I'm more in favor of having a road bonus making the large bonus more attractive.


So are you in favor of leaving Canada the way it is, or would you like it split up?

AS far as the four way's I'll get them fixed on my next revision.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:43 pm

isaiah40 wrote:So are you in favor of leaving Canada the way it is, or would you like it split up?

Well as your map is slightly all ready split I'm kinda not sure myself which way to go
since you do not need to be strapped by history I'm interested in seeing what you would add if another area and your legend is missing a spot
if your stuck on ideas for it i could think off some but i'd like to see your ideas first as all the other areas are awesome
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:10 pm

Hello,

I will first off say that I will not be commenting on GP. SO here we go.

    1) Color
    I think the colors you have picked are too close together. You have many bonus group so you need them but they need to be spread out more visually.
    With 14 groups it will be tricky. I suggest that we start talking about colors now before you make any other changes
    2) Legend
    The legend and all the rules need to be in 1 box.

    3) Bonus boxes

    I don't prefer the 5/5/4 layout you have. Would it be possible to make 2 rows of 7 boxes and shrink the font a bit. That way they are symmetrical and there is more space for rules above or below the boxes. Also teh bonus boxes should be lined up (as much as possible ) from left to right as they appear on teh map.

    4) Title
    The font does not do it for me. When I think of fractured I think of broken glass. Maybe try to work something like that into the feel of the map.

    5) Map items (text, arrows)
    The arrows are fuzzy and the font could use a glow around it to help the letters pop off the page

    6) Bonus group borders

    Maybe add a darker shade of the color in the interior of each group. That visually helps pull each one apart.

It is a cool map and looks really nice. I am still concerned about the Eastern coast in the small map but I am sure you can work that out eventually.
These updates are looking better each time.

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:23 pm

Just got to thinking. I should split Canada into east and west, then I can have all the capitals be S.P. Then at the start of the game (depending on how many players) you would get at least 2 capitals, and with a +1 auto deploy I think it would work out. How about it?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:26 pm

as some have added if caps are starts then they shouldn't be able to attack each other at all

So are these starting spots and the rest of the places are evenly distributed or its gonig to be like a conquest map?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:29 pm

Danyael wrote:as some have added if caps are starts then they shouldn't be able to attack each other at all

So are these starting spots and the rest of the places are evenly distributed or its gonig to be like a conquest map?


If I split Canada, all capitals become starting places, then the capitals would not attack or bombard each other. Good point on a conquest map. It might make play interesting.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:12 pm

I think we could use some more non-conquest maps in the 80s-90s territory range.

I think the colors you have now work fairly well, except for:
    Metis, where the flag in the background makes the territory seem light red rather than the white represented in the bonus key.
    Aztlan, which is too close to the Mormons and the Outfit (especially since the latter has green on its background flag)
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:19 pm

i'm not a fan of conquest maps(i'm pretty bad at some of them) but its up to you which kind of map you want it to be
i was hoping the gameplay would be more standard if you had the caps start neutral it would stop some easy drops
but If you want to move ahead it would be good to figure out what kind of game you want it to be then gameplay tweaks will be not be far off helping you move forward ;)
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:49 pm

Okay, Version 4.3 is here and raring to go!

Changes made:

- Changed title font and layout
- changed the way the legend is laid out
- Put a inside glow on the bonus areas to make them stand out more
- Removed stars as capitals and replaced them with the top of the capital bldg
- changed the appearance of the arrows
- Connected Arizona with Area 51
- Changed a couple of the bonuses colors so as to have a wider variance of color
- Subdued the army circles
- Slightly changed the appearance of the mountains

(Well okay I didn't do it all, as I had a little help from Widowmakers on some of the stuff)

Things to do:
Iron out game play

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.3* - pg.8

Postby WidowMakers on Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:16 pm

1) Good colors. Much better

2) A suggestion about the capitals. Army circles for standard and Army stars for capitals. Why not get rid of the building 100% and make a new army circle. I did that in the USA map pack. That way the map is less cramped and the map feel is better ( since the capitals don't have the same cartoony feel)

3) As far as GP ( i know I said I would not comment :D )
    I don't think it should be conquest.
This is a cool map and with all the territories, it will be very fun as a standard map.

4) One suggestion for capital bonuses is similar to the lakes in Great lakes and Capitals in the USA map pack
    +4 for 7
    +6 for 8
    +7 for 9
    +8 for 10
    +10 for 11
    +12 for 12
    +15 for 13
    +20 for 14

There is plenty of room at teh bottom now for these numbers.

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.3* - pg.8

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:44 pm

WidowMakers wrote:1) Good colors. Much better

2) A suggestion about the capitals. Army circles for standard and Army stars for capitals. Why not get rid of the building 100% and make a new army circle. I did that in the USA map pack. That way the map is less cramped and the map feel is better ( since the capitals don't have the same cartoony feel)


So olive drab army circles and stars? hmmm ...

3) As far as GP ( i know I said I would not comment :D )
    I don't think it should be conquest.
This is a cool map and with all the territories, it will be very fun as a standard map.


I totally concur!

4) One suggestion for capital bonuses is similar to the lakes in Great lakes and Capitals in the USA map pack
    +4 for 7
    +6 for 8
    +7 for 9
    +8 for 10
    +10 for 11
    +12 for 12
    +15 for 13
    +20 for 14

There is plenty of room at the bottom now for these numbers.

WM


Good idea! I'll incorporate those bonuses into the map.

I like standard play as well so that is what I was thinking on having. So standard play it is I guess!
Any other gp suggestions, let me know! ;)
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.3* - pg.8

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:28 pm

Version 4.4

Changed capitals and army circles, and added capital bonuses per widowmakers suggestion.

This game will be standard play with the possibility of a +1 autodeploy on any capital held. Suggestions on this would be very greatfull!

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.4* - pg.8

Postby colton24 on Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:54 pm

I liked the last captial look. Looked different and less dull.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.4* - pg.8

Postby Evil DIMwit on Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:47 pm

colton24 wrote:I liked the last captial look. Looked different and less dull.


I tend to agree. How about army shadows shaped like capitol domes?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.3* - pg.8

Postby WidowMakers on Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:17 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:1) Good colors. Much better

2) A suggestion about the capitals. Army circles for standard and Army stars for capitals. Why not get rid of the building 100% and make a new army circle. I did that in the USA map pack. That way the map is less cramped and the map feel is better ( since the capitals don't have the same cartoony feel)


So olive drab army circles and stars? hmmm ...

Sorry. That is not what I meant. I meant the circles that the 88's are in should be stars for teh capitals.

Here is the USA West map. The standard cities are just 20x20 pixel circles. The state capitals are stars. This way you do not need to have two graphics in your "capital territory.
Sorry for the "army" confusion. I have just always called the circles "army circles"
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.4* - pg.8

Postby whitestazn88 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:51 am

the update is incredible. thank god. its a great improvement, and looks amazing. should be decent gameplay as well
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.4* - pg.8

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:48 am

Version 4.5

Changes
- Changed army circles back to the white
- Used Capital Stars instead of army circles
- Removed army circles from capital territs

Things to do:
- Decide whether or not to have capitals have a +1 auto deploy or just leave the map as a standard game play. I'm thinking remove the +1 auto deploy and leave it at that since I have the capitals as an added bonus for holding them. What do you think?

Did up another small map as well.

Click image to enlarge.
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Tell me what you think!
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.5* - pg.9

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:08 pm

It depends on how important you want capitals to be. Having auto-deploy also makes some capitals better to hold than others: Iowa and Montana, for example, are border territories, while Zacatecas is snugly out of the way. This may not mean much in Unlimited but in an Adjacent game it could make a big difference.
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