Fractured America [Quenched]

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Re: Fractured America

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:24 pm

Version 4

Here are the changes to this version:

- Changed army circles with #'s to just plain army circles
- Changed bonus for Quebec from 3 to 4
- Changed my ugly attack routes with arrows

That's it for this revision :D
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Small map

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Hope you all are liking the changes!
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4* - pg.7

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:10 pm

Wow great improvements!
With the new layout zones are very clear. Well done!
Bonuses seem balanced, maybe you could increase texas due its central position...9/10 ?
Some borders aren't clear:
  • Dakota-Saskatchewan-Montana
  • Maryland-VA-WY-Penn

I have a couple of questions:
All regions are randomly assigned?
There are some neutrals or starting positions?
How capitals will be assigned to players?

Continue on this way =D>
Nobodies

p.s. Update the first post could be a good idea ;)

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:19 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:Wow great improvements!
With the new layout zones are very clear. Well done!

Continue on this way =D>
Nobodies

Thank you nobodies 8-)

Here is Version 4.1 ...

Changes:

- Made the borders between Maryland and Virginia clearer, redrew the border between dakoda, Montana and Saskatchewan to show Dakoda and Montana are connected

In answer to nobodies questions
I have a couple of questions:
All regions are randomly assigned? Yes all regions are randomly assigned
There are some neutrals or starting positions? All capitals start with 10 neutral - possibly 5 neutral.
How capitals will be assigned to players? See above answer ;)

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.1* - pg.7

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:06 pm

This is looking really good.
+6 for republicans seems a bit much. The big blured borders of canada are a little off, why are they so much thicker?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.1* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:15 pm

captainwalrus wrote:This is looking really good.
+6 for republicans seems a bit much. The big blured borders of canada are a little off, why are they so much thicker?

That is from all connecting borders Canada - Metis, Canada - Freemen etc..

The Republicans get +6 because Iowa can be attacked from all directions, so I figured I'll add 1 extra for the bonus. :)
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.1* - pg.7

Postby soundman on Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:16 pm

Saw you put the flag/symbols into the map. Looks great! :D Bridges are much better. The star on "Fort Albany" needs to be moved down because it's over the name. Also, "PEI" is all dark, maybe you should add some orange to it?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.1* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:24 pm

soundman wrote:Saw you put the flag/symbols into the map. Looks great! :D Bridges are much better. The star on "Fort Albany" needs to be moved down because it's over the name. Also, "PEI" is all dark, maybe you should add some orange to it?


DOH! Didn't realize about Fort Albany! Thanks! I'm working on a new revision as I am replying. Redrawing New England - actually deleting one territory - and getting rid of all the extra thick borders! :D
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.1* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:38 pm

Version 4.2

Changes made:

- Looking at other maps I decided to remove all the thick borders since there was enough color difference between bonuses that the thick border wasn't warranted.
- Cleaned up New England by removing MA and expanding VT
- Expanded Abilene so the text, star and army circle could fit in and not be crowded
- Expanded WA into British Columbia for the same reason as previous point
- Removed mountains between VA - WV - PA & Maryland so that it was cleaner and you can see the connections better
- Removed mountains between WY and Ida. for same reason as previous point

So now it should be clean and easy to read and follow! :D
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby waseemalim on Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:40 am

its too onerous to have 5 neutrals on capitals. the east europe WW2 map has only 3 neutrals on the capitals -- and they never come into play. Granted that capitals are essential for bonuses in this case, but the neutrals really make it a pain -- especially in team games. My bet would be that most teams would ignore the capitals and try to go for elims, given the high terr count of this map.

Suggestion -- make capitals a neutral 1 or 2.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:21 am

waseemalim wrote:its too onerous to have 5 neutrals on capitals. the east europe WW2 map has only 3 neutrals on the capitals -- and they never come into play. Granted that capitals are essential for bonuses in this case, but the neutrals really make it a pain -- especially in team games. My bet would be that most teams would ignore the capitals and try to go for elims, given the high terr count of this map.

Suggestion -- make capitals a neutral 1 or 2.


True that a lot of teams probably would just go for the elim, but I'm looking at I think would be the majority who don't play teams. That is why I think starting the capitals at 5 is a good number because in an 8 player game each player would get 3 men. So if a player gets 3 men they could easily put them down on an adjacent territory and take it if the starting amount is 1, 2, or 3 men. I wanted to make it harder to gain a capital or two the first round or two. In a 1v1 each player would get 12 men a piece.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Risky_Stud on Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:24 pm

Great job! But.
2 thing's, i feel the canada bonus is to large to try and hold and
nobody is even gonna try for it. Maybe try spliting between manitoba
and saskatchewan and call them canada east and canada west.
the other is the color of the water. it's ok everywhere except the
river going in by arizona. it's a little blurring.

Other than that it's thumb's up from me. :D
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4* - pg.7

Postby thenobodies80 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:26 pm

isaiah40 wrote:All regions are randomly assigned? Yes all regions are randomly assigned
There are some neutrals or starting positions? All capitals start with 10 neutral - possibly 5 neutral.
How capitals will be assigned to players? See above answer ;)

waseemalim wrote:its too onerous to have 5 neutrals on capitals. the east europe WW2 map has only 3 neutrals on the capitals -- and they never come into play. Granted that capitals are essential for bonuses in this case, but the neutrals really make it a pain -- especially in team games. My bet would be that most teams would ignore the capitals and try to go for elims, given the high terr count of this map.

Suggestion -- make capitals a neutral 1 or 2.


I'll try to mix the two things ;)
88 regions is a good number, but you have 14 neutral regions (capitals)
88-14=74 regions (starting pot)

74 isn't a good number, because the first player could take an advantage taking only one territory from his opponent.

1vs1 and 1vs1vs1
each player will start with 24 regions
4 players
each player will start with 18 regions
6 players (less important)
each player will start with 12 regions

You could code 8 capitals as starting positions and leave only 6 regions neutral.
First each player will start with
1vs1 28 regions
1vs1vs1 26 regions
4 players 20 regions
etc etc

But i have to think better about how bombardments will work in this way :-k

I have to agree with waseemalim, specially if you have to fight against 5 neutral troops and then be bombarded when you ended your turn.

My opinion (feel you free not to follow it ;) ) is to code the capitals as S.P. and to get rid of bombardments.
Maybe leave the capitals with 5 neutral but increase the bonus (maybe 2)?

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:52 pm

thenobodies80 wrote:
I'll try to mix the two things ;)
88 regions is a good number, but you have 14 neutral regions (capitals)
88-14=74 regions (starting pot)

74 isn't a good number, because the first player could take an advantage taking only one territory from his opponent.

1vs1 and 1vs1vs1
each player will start with 24 regions
4 players
each player will start with 18 regions
6 players (less important)
each player will start with 12 regions

You could code 8 capitals as starting positions and leave only 6 regions neutral.
First each player will start with
1vs1 28 regions
1vs1vs1 26 regions
4 players 20 regions
etc etc

But i have to think better about how bombardments will work in this way :-k

I have to agree with waseemalim, specially if you have to fight against 5 neutral troops and then be bombarded when you ended your turn.

My opinion (feel you free not to follow it ;) ) is to code the capitals as S.P. and to get rid of bombardments.
Maybe leave the capitals with 5 neutral but increase the bonus (maybe 2)?


Okay, so how about we have 8 capitals as SP, can we code it so that only the number of players in the game get one capital each and the rest are at 5 neutral? We can do that. If we do it then yes we will have to get rid of the bombardments.

Bonus for the capitals then would be set at +2 for two? Hmmm ... How about for every capital you hold there will be a +1 or a +3 auto deploy? Instead of the capitals bombarding each other we could have them attack each other and then you would have to conquer the whole map instead of holding all the capitals?

In my opinion, whatever the best game play is I'll just about go for it.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby RedBaron0 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:39 pm

Looking pretty good Isaiah, starting positions might be the best way to go here, and the other capitals starting as neutrals will be best, but you don't need to have them be at 5, 2 or 3 should be fine, it give a player a change to conquer on the first turn, but also a chance that the 3 neutral to kick the players ass too. ;) Autodeploy I think is best for the capitals, think of it as a recruiting station and the strongest influence is going to be at the capital itself and the armies are raised there. And don't have the capitals bombard each other, would make the game too imbalanced to players going first and getting the first sets in Flat and escalating games. Perhaps capturing the capitals can be a game objective?

Some nitpicks on the map itself...
Drop the opacity on the army circles some, let them blend into the map somewhat, the circles are just supposed to be light enough to allow us to see the numbers, try putting some "88"s on the map and you'll see what I mean. Find something besides those stars to mark the capitals, they seem kinda eh... either something unique in each capital territory or a uniform marker, like you have, but the star you have just isn't that good looking to me. Area 51 is in New Mexico, (or... it's not there depending on who you listen to. :lol: 8-[ ) not Nevada... if you want a short name to fit in there, I suggest "Reno" And think about adding a legend somewhere that explains your abbreviations, most people in America take for granted the use of 2 letter codes representing the states, not everyone is going to recognize them.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:59 pm

RedBaron0 wrote:Looking pretty good Isaiah, starting positions might be the best way to go here, and the other capitals starting as neutrals will be best, but you don't need to have them be at 5, 2 or 3 should be fine, it give a player a change to conquer on the first turn, but also a chance that the 3 neutral to kick the players ass too. ;) Autodeploy I think is best for the capitals, think of it as a recruiting station and the strongest influence is going to be at the capital itself and the armies are raised there. And don't have the capitals bombard each other, would make the game too imbalanced to players going first and getting the first sets in Flat and escalating games. Perhaps capturing the capitals can be a game objective?

Some nitpicks on the map itself...
Drop the opacity on the army circles some, let them blend into the map somewhat, the circles are just supposed to be light enough to allow us to see the numbers, try putting some "88"s on the map and you'll see what I mean. Find something besides those stars to mark the capitals, they seem kinda eh... either something unique in each capital territory or a uniform marker, like you have, but the star you have just isn't that good looking to me. Area 51 is in New Mexico, (or... it's not there depending on who you listen to. :lol: 8-[ ) not Nevada... if you want a short name to fit in there, I suggest "Reno" And think about adding a legend somewhere that explains your abbreviations, most people in America take for granted the use of 2 letter codes representing the states, not everyone is going to recognize them.


I am still thinking of capturing all the capitals as the objective. I know they are spread out enough to where you have to go through a lot of men to get the objective.

So 3 neutral it would be then on the other capitals.

AS for the army circles, I know they have to be done just didn't do it on the large map. I did it on the small map and everything looked fine, but I am concentrating on the large one.

And a little nitpick for you: Arrea 51 is in Nevada not New Mexico. I was in the Air Force in New Mexico and the talk put it in Nevada. Besides, who wants to go out into the middle of nowhere to try and find it. Of course the best place to find would be right under our noses :lol:
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby soundman on Mon Sep 14, 2009 7:19 pm

I'm thinking if you go with 8 capitals as starting points then they shouldn't be able to bombard or attack one another. And I like the auto-deploy on them. I agree with RedBaron0 that you should try and find something different than the stars. I'm wondering if you could do something fun with "Area 51".... Also I noticed when you did the 4.2 update you only showed the map on the first page, could you also put it in your current post so I can look at it as I read your changes? Thanks.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:15 pm

You have some 4 way corner borders (Metis area and Cuba area)
this might cause confusion and game-play concerns but should be easy to fix
Risky_Stud wrote:2 thing's, I feel the canada bonus is to large to try and hold and
nobody is even gonna try for it. Maybe try splitting between Manitoba
and Saskatchewan and call them Canada east and Canada west.

Where have i seen that before ;)
Now that the the Canadian national hover train has been removed i have to agree that maybe another bonus up north might be a good idea but I thing since Canada only has one road I'm more in favor of having a road bonus making the large bonus more attractive.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:26 pm

Danyael wrote:You have some 4 way corner borders (Metis area and Cuba area)
this might cause confusion and game-play concerns but should be easy to fix

Where have i seen that before ;)
Now that the the Canadian national hover train has been removed i have to agree that maybe another bonus up north might be a good idea but I thing since Canada only has one road I'm more in favor of having a road bonus making the large bonus more attractive.


So are you in favor of leaving Canada the way it is, or would you like it split up?

AS far as the four way's I'll get them fixed on my next revision.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:43 pm

isaiah40 wrote:So are you in favor of leaving Canada the way it is, or would you like it split up?

Well as your map is slightly all ready split I'm kinda not sure myself which way to go
since you do not need to be strapped by history I'm interested in seeing what you would add if another area and your legend is missing a spot
if your stuck on ideas for it i could think off some but i'd like to see your ideas first as all the other areas are awesome
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby WidowMakers on Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:10 pm

Hello,

I will first off say that I will not be commenting on GP. SO here we go.

    1) Color
    I think the colors you have picked are too close together. You have many bonus group so you need them but they need to be spread out more visually.
    With 14 groups it will be tricky. I suggest that we start talking about colors now before you make any other changes
    2) Legend
    The legend and all the rules need to be in 1 box.

    3) Bonus boxes

    I don't prefer the 5/5/4 layout you have. Would it be possible to make 2 rows of 7 boxes and shrink the font a bit. That way they are symmetrical and there is more space for rules above or below the boxes. Also teh bonus boxes should be lined up (as much as possible ) from left to right as they appear on teh map.

    4) Title
    The font does not do it for me. When I think of fractured I think of broken glass. Maybe try to work something like that into the feel of the map.

    5) Map items (text, arrows)
    The arrows are fuzzy and the font could use a glow around it to help the letters pop off the page

    6) Bonus group borders

    Maybe add a darker shade of the color in the interior of each group. That visually helps pull each one apart.

It is a cool map and looks really nice. I am still concerned about the Eastern coast in the small map but I am sure you can work that out eventually.
These updates are looking better each time.

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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:23 pm

Just got to thinking. I should split Canada into east and west, then I can have all the capitals be S.P. Then at the start of the game (depending on how many players) you would get at least 2 capitals, and with a +1 auto deploy I think it would work out. How about it?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:26 pm

as some have added if caps are starts then they shouldn't be able to attack each other at all

So are these starting spots and the rest of the places are evenly distributed or its gonig to be like a conquest map?
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby isaiah40 on Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:29 pm

Danyael wrote:as some have added if caps are starts then they shouldn't be able to attack each other at all

So are these starting spots and the rest of the places are evenly distributed or its gonig to be like a conquest map?


If I split Canada, all capitals become starting places, then the capitals would not attack or bombard each other. Good point on a conquest map. It might make play interesting.
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Evil DIMwit on Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:12 pm

I think we could use some more non-conquest maps in the 80s-90s territory range.

I think the colors you have now work fairly well, except for:
    Metis, where the flag in the background makes the territory seem light red rather than the white represented in the bonus key.
    Aztlan, which is too close to the Mormons and the Outfit (especially since the latter has green on its background flag)
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Re: Fractured America - *Updated V4.2* - pg.7

Postby Danyael on Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:19 pm

i'm not a fan of conquest maps(i'm pretty bad at some of them) but its up to you which kind of map you want it to be
i was hoping the gameplay would be more standard if you had the caps start neutral it would stop some easy drops
but If you want to move ahead it would be good to figure out what kind of game you want it to be then gameplay tweaks will be not be far off helping you move forward ;)
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