German/Italian Unif.[D, Gp, Gr] BETA, all files p.1

[lt_oddball]

if a split bonus is held in addition to BOTH zones, then the larger bonus applies.

So if you have france (2) and elzas (+1 or +2) and Rhein Preuss (2) you 'll receive only 4 bonustroops ?

if a split bonus is held in addition to BOTH zones, then the larger SPLITbonus applies

Then you'll have 2 + (2+2) = 6 bonustroops for the lot.

[Industrial Helix]

if a split bonus is held in addition to BOTH zones, then the larger bonus applies.

So if you have france (2) and elzas (+1 or +2) and Rhein Preuss (2) you 'll receive only 4 bonustroops ?

if a split bonus is held in addition to BOTH zones, then the larger SPLITbonus applies

Then you'll have 2 + (2+2) = 6 bonustroops for the lot.

Uh, yeah. I think I get what you're asking. France plus Rhine Provinces plus Alsace/Lothringen equals 6 total.

I really like these maps.

Thanks!

@Natty - Yeah, I'll fix it next version. Thanks!

[iancanton]

two further suggestions for austria, which has 7 regions, all of them borders: the first is to increase the bonus to +6 and the second is to extend the boehmervald-sumava mountains so that prag no longer borders oberpfalz. both make austria slightly stronger. i believe they'll improve the map, whose gameplay is already solid enough to be stamped.

http://www.czech-mountains.eu/sumava-en/guide.html

will u consider doing the above gameplay fix? u are not obliged to do so because we're already in the graphics workshop.

ian.

[Industrial Helix]

Sorry Ian, I did it and didn't update the first post and only posted it on the 9th page. You should see it on the first page now as well.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok... with the general lack of graphics complaints and crits, I went ahead and made up the small versions. There's a few revisions on the small map to accommodate the dots, ect.

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[Industrial Helix]

Uh, so... any graphics suggestions for these maps or...

[natty dread]

Well, this is just my personal opinion, and I'm not sure if this has already been discussed in the thread... sorry if it has..

but on the italy map there's this grey stuff on the ocean, the germany map doesn't have this (actually now that I look closer it does, but is mostly covered by text so it's not so obvious). It makes the ocean look kinda dirty, I don't really like it. If you want the ocean to look "dull" or "worn" (which I suspect is the reasoning for the grey colour) I'd suggest you ditch the grey colour, instead decrease the saturation on the ocean colour.

Or make it the other way around, so that the grey colour is around the shores and the middle of ocean is blue. Either way would work better in my opinion.

[Industrial Helix]

Well, this is just my personal opinion, and I'm not sure if this has already been discussed in the thread... sorry if it has..

but on the italy map there's this grey stuff on the ocean, the germany map doesn't have this (actually now that I look closer it does, but is mostly covered by text so it's not so obvious). It makes the ocean look kinda dirty, I don't really like it. If you want the ocean to look "dull" or "worn" (which I suspect is the reasoning for the grey colour) I'd suggest you ditch the grey colour, instead decrease the saturation on the ocean colour.

Or make it the other way around, so that the grey colour is around the shores and the middle of ocean is blue. Either way would work better in my opinion.

Yeah, now that you mention it I see what you mean. The German map has more a a pop to it and the blue kind of glows. I think I prefer the German style over Italian... I'll see what I can do. Thanks!

[Industrial Helix]

Well, I was waiting on some more crits but seems nobody has em for me. Oceans adjusted.

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[AndyDufresne]

This is definitely one of my newer favorite looking maps (even if I would probably not play very often on these maps).

The only thing I would suggest is that the current title on the Kingdom of Italy map strangely stands outs---I'm assuming because of the white contrast. But it feels pasted on---when the German Map the title feels integrated into the actual map, and that is a plus.

=========================================

I'd also like to advocate for extremely clear rules about objectives, since I know we often receive E-tickets about people complaining they followed the instructions on the map and that they "controlled all the regions" but didn't win. So if you mention, "Control and hold" that would be pleasant...or even if better if you mentioned "Control and hold for one round."

More people will be happy, and we'll receive less e-tickets.


--Andy

[Industrial Helix]

This is definitely one of my newer favorite looking maps (even if I would probably not play very often on these maps).

The only thing I would suggest is that the current title on the Kingdom of Italy map strangely stands outs---I'm assuming because of the white contrast. But it feels pasted on---when the German Map the title feels integrated into the actual map, and that is a plus.

=========================================

I'd also like to advocate for extremely clear rules about objectives, since I know we often receive E-tickets about people complaining they followed the instructions on the map and that they "controlled all the regions" but didn't win. So if you mention, "Control and hold" that would be pleasant...or even if better if you mentioned "Control and hold for one round."

More people will be happy, and we'll receive less e-tickets.


--Andy

Hmm yeah, I see what you mean about Italy's title... maybe a bluer glow would work better... I'll try it out.

As for the clarity of the rules... one would think "control" was implied in hold. Perhaps changing the rules to say "occupy/control/hold for one round..."

Thanks for you time and thoughts Andy!

[AndyDufresne]

Any additional clarification to the rules of objectives would be much appreciated.

The maps look great---unique and fun to play. Keep up the terrific work, I mean it.


--Andy

[RedBaron0]

Sorry posts for the fortnightly reviews didn't go out sooner. It's been tougher this time to get together with thenobodies this time around, both our time has been stretched.

You are definitely looking good. I've noticed a couple things, and I'll list them, but this won't be it. thenobodies, being a native of the region, will have some more to say for sure.

Germany:

• Border between Koln and Trier isn't complete, finish the line all the way to the river. (Both big and small map)
• Another border issue is that there is a 3 way border that can be confusing between Koln, Trier and Lux. Can't quite tell if Lux. and Koln connect or not. (Both big and small map)
• There is a smidgen of white from Munster bleeding into Hanover, more noticeable on the big map, but just barely there on the small.
• Your hyphenations are good to keep the territory names in the territories, but the one for Oberpflaz has a massive gap between the 2 parts where the other hyphenations are much closer together. Just for consistency, match the hyphenations of Oberpflaz to the rest of the hyphenations. (Both big and small map)
• The colors you've got look great and of course you're going for a theme to match the flags of each nation. The black text on the Ostpruben bonus are kinda difficult to make out. Is there a way you think you can get that text to standout a little more that doesn't ruin your theme? Slight glow (in grey perhaps?) to the text maybe?
• Sea connector dots are on top of the land... again. (Both big and small map)

Italy

• Trieste and Krain, do they connect? The mountains don't go all the way to the sea. (Both big and small map)
• Sea connector dots are on top of the land... again. (Both big and small map)
• Nice has that one little bar in it for the 2 bonus indicator. Can you adjust this a little bit to get more than 3 colors inside the territory? Say at least one more change back to green? (Both big and small map)
• You've got some red color or small gaps along the southern coast. Again more noticeable on the big map, not so noticeable on the small.
• There is a bit of a gap in the coastal border of Provence. Again more noticeable on the big map, not so noticeable on the small.
• What is the little square inside Nice? (Both big and small map)
• There's a little chunk of border sticking into Piemonte. (Both big and small map)

[Beko the Great]

I like the design of both maps and I'm really intersted in playing both. I had no time for look better for them but in a first glimpse I see the legend is way too close to the map. For example in German Unification map you have the impassables so close to netherlands that it seems there are mountains on the sea. The river is really hard to distinguish as well. In the Italy map Sardegna is touching a square in the legend. You can put the legend smaller or close it in a box.

Good luck with this! Keep going! Really eager to play this ones!

[Industrial Helix]

Sorry posts for the fortnightly reviews didn't go out sooner. It's been tougher this time to get together with thenobodies this time around, both our time has been stretched.

You are definitely looking good. I've noticed a couple things, and I'll list them, but this won't be it. thenobodies, being a native of the region, will have some more to say for sure.

Germany:

• Border between Koln and Trier isn't complete, finish the line all the way to the river. (Both big and small map)
• Another border issue is that there is a 3 way border that can be confusing between Koln, Trier and Lux. Can't quite tell if Lux. and Koln connect or not. (Both big and small map)
• There is a smidgen of white from Munster bleeding into Hanover, more noticeable on the big map, but just barely there on the small.
• Your hyphenations are good to keep the territory names in the territories, but the one for Oberpflaz has a massive gap between the 2 parts where the other hyphenations are much closer together. Just for consistency, match the hyphenations of Oberpflaz to the rest of the hyphenations. (Both big and small map)
• The colors you've got look great and of course you're going for a theme to match the flags of each nation. The black text on the Ostpruben bonus are kinda difficult to make out. Is there a way you think you can get that text to standout a little more that doesn't ruin your theme? Slight glow (in grey perhaps?) to the text maybe?
• Sea connector dots are on top of the land... again. (Both big and small map)

Italy

• Trieste and Krain, do they connect? The mountains don't go all the way to the sea. (Both big and small map)
• Sea connector dots are on top of the land... again. (Both big and small map)
• Nice has that one little bar in it for the 2 bonus indicator. Can you adjust this a little bit to get more than 3 colors inside the territory? Say at least one more change back to green? (Both big and small map)
• You've got some red color or small gaps along the southern coast. Again more noticeable on the big map, not so noticeable on the small.
• There is a bit of a gap in the coastal border of Provence. Again more noticeable on the big map, not so noticeable on the small.
• What is the little square inside Nice? (Both big and small map)
• There's a little chunk of border sticking into Piemonte. (Both big and small map)

OK, with Germany I fixed just about everything you said. I totally do not get this sea connectors thing though... I mean, i figured they should touch land to perfectly illustrate where they go and that the ships or what have you are landing. Eh well, I really don't care a whole lot

With Italy, I made all the changes though Nice looks a tad stranger now. I prefer it the other way and now that I changed it and you can have a look, do you agree? I think a single stripe through it was much clearer.

And that dot down by Nice is Monaco. I can get rid of it if you really hate it. It was just on the map of the region I traced and I kept it for fun... logically I should add San Marino and Lichtenstein as well. Thoughts? Maybe I'll just get rid of Monaco.... And I did.

Nobodies has been keeping up with this map pretty good, I think. He's already helped me out with a number of things on the Italian map, names, borders, ect.

Edit: I forgot to address Beko's comments. Well, I pulled that box off Sardinia... but I dunno if I can get an outline around all the Key information. It's already crammed in there quite tight. As for the rivers, I'm going to play with them some more and see what I can get out of them. I don't want to create giant gleaming rivers that blow out the colors of the regions though and I don't want to carve out a section similar to your map, which seems incorrect for this period. I'll see what I can do.

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[Evil DIMwit]

I showed this map to my friend and he thought Luxembourg was impassable. Could you perhaps separate the "Impassable" label from the bonus list in the German map?

P.S. Looking forward to playing these. Keep up the good work.

[Industrial Helix]

Yeah, well... tell your friend that's what France thought in 1940 and see what it got them...




... a new map,

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[jefjef]

Trieste mountains aren't as pronounced/distinct as the other mountains.

Also think a mountain barrier at Piemonte & Cote De Azur would be good.

[jefjef]

Hey IH!

Luxembourg is about the same shade as water. looks like a lake.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, did a little work on the mountains... any better? Is there any confusion about the borders there?

As for adding in mountains... i see your point but its a bit late for adding gameplay twists. I'll talk to the mods or they can post here and we'll see what happens. So stay tuned regarding that matter cause I'm not opposed to the idea.

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As for Luxembourg... I think it looks a lot different than the sea... the sea is this gray green mud color and Lux is bright blue. Any ideas on which color to switch it to? Or how to play with the tone? Again, I'm not opposed to change just not sure what to do about it.

[RedBaron0]

Ok, did a little work on the mountains... any better? Is there any confusion about the borders there?

As for adding in mountains... i see your point but its a bit late for adding gameplay twists. I'll talk to the mods or they can post here and we'll see what happens. So stay tuned regarding that matter cause I'm not opposed to the idea.

Eh... the mountains there by Trieste were fine before, and they're probably fine now too. I would say don't fiddle with the gameplay until getting to the Forge/Beta and seeing whether or not another impassible is needed. You would have to go back through and adjust your numbers and possibly alter the balance of the board by changing bonus values.

As for Luxembourg... I think it looks a lot different than the sea... the sea is this gray green mud color and Lux is bright blue. Any ideas on which color to switch it to? Or how to play with the tone? Again, I'm not opposed to change just not sure what to do about it.

It is different... maybe too different, to bright on a board that by comparison is dark. BUT... it's likely your best color choose since just about everything else will either clash(orange, pink, etc) or not make much sense.(purple)

Last quick thing, on the Italy maps, I think you should box off the impassibles like you have done on the Germany maps, for consistency.

[jefjef]

Hey IH!

Luxembourg is about the same shade as water. looks like a lake.

I'm just saying it is close to the color ones mind associates with water.

How about one of these shades.

As for A Piemont mountain Barrier I don't think it would/should effect the currrent bonuses. I do think it would add a tad bit of balance in that area.

[Industrial Helix]

Jef - Well, the problem with changing Lux to one of those colors is that it isn't one of the Luxembourg flag colors, red, white and blue. I chose blue because it wasn't being used as I went for indigo blue on France. I was going for more of a sky blue for Lux. I see what you saying, but I think its the only option available given the graphical style of the map.

Red - Yeah, I think I agree in holding those mountains off until it may be needed in Beta.

And I boxed off the Impassables

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[Industrial Helix]

Jefjef wrote on my wall about changing the Luxembourg color to the flag. I have one problem with this, the flags are how I've done the neutrals. I think it would conflict.

[natty dread]

Jefjef wrote on my wall about changing the Luxembourg color to the flag. I have one problem with this, the flags are how I've done the neutrals. I think it would conflict.

Yes it would be confusing. I think the current colour is fine.