German/Italian Unif.[D, Gp, Gr] BETA, all files p.1

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:49 am

Helix, I don't know if you did that already, but I've inserted the German map in the Bonus Calculator:

those were the bonus values I got

DN - 5
DN + S-H - 5
KD - 0 (it shows a value of 0,42)
KD + S-H - 1
KM - 2
DS & B - 7
O-P - 3
W-P - 5
PPR - 2
PPR + E - 3
EF - 2 (it shows a value of 2,12)
EF + E - 2 (it shows a value of 1,95)
O - 6

the numbers seem to be needing some adjustment (not a real problem). Something worries me though - how will you justify a raise in Deutsche Nordzustande with S-H, same goes for Danmark. It gets even worst with L'Empire getting Elsab, that will make its borders drop from 2 to only 1, making the bonus calculator going down instead of asking for more bonus.... :?
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby ender516 on Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:39 pm

I have a suggestion for the hatched area. I think a common cartographic method for showing a disputed area is to have the colours representing the two claimants hatched together. So rather than half green with grey hatching and half grey with grey hatching, use green and grey hatched together, with the stripe of each colour being the same width. For an example of the style of hatching I mean, see the Aksai Chin region on this Wikipedia map, which hashes the beige of India with the light brown of China.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby captainwalrus on Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:42 pm

battle for iraq does a good job of having regions in multiple bonuses, but it is fine here, I think it is clear enough.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:39 am

Kab - Yeah, i had to play with the bonus calculator numbers to make the map seem functional. I mean, i didn't think it was a good idea to have the Denmark bonus worth nothing. I wanted the disputed territories to mean something and enable a player more... making them worth no added advantage seems to undermine this. France is a major problem because it does have its sole single border of Alsace, which offers a few possible solutions:

The Paris territory is already running a 5 neutral... increase this to increase the difficulty of obtaining the bonus or to increase the time delay before a player gets the bonus. What makes this difficult is that Paris is a game objective and I don't want to make it too difficult to obtain.

Throw in Benelux as a killer neutral displaying the options that the Prussian govt had in taking on France. Though I'm hesitant to do this as it is not what happened in the wars.

I'm definitely open to suggestions on this matter. But I'm leaning towards leaving the bonus close to what they are.

Ender - Hmm... that might be a good idea. I'll give it a shot and see how it comes out. Thanks for the suggestion.

Captain - Good to hear. I'm glad that it is clear, now its time to find out how to make it a bit more aesthetically pleasing.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:42 pm

Sure, you need to have a bonus for holding Denmark. I’m just pointing that the payback when holding S-H will be huge. In fact it will be the same for holding DN and S-H, you are giving a 2 extra bonus with no border increase, and remember that the calculator asks for a 5 troop bonus for holding DN, you’re raising it already to 6.

As for France… I really don’t know how to pull that one off. Again, you start with a higher number than the one asking by the calculator which would be 2 instead of 3 (even with those neutral 5 – for that calc with neutral troops I used Andrew’s updated calculator :)), and you’re giving a 2 extra bonus (from 3 to 5) for a reduction in borders. Not coherent I think…
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby captainwalrus on Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:22 pm

OK graphics

Not really digging them right now, they look kinda odd and pixely.
  • Some of the borders look a little too straight. There are too many angles, not enough curves. Even it it is technacly a straight border or an angle instead of a curve, there is no one that is going to call you out on it if you change it just for looks.
  • For the texture, it just comes across as being something you took then really stretched out. It seems like you put a texture over the whole this, but it was too small, so you just expanded it, but it ends up not coming out clean. It is especialy noticable in the non playable areas like Russia and the Ottoman territories. Try to find a similar texture, but larger sized so it comes across as baing clearer.
  • I like the mountains a lot, though, good job.
  • I like how in Germany, the big red one has a gradient, it looks cool how it gets darker toward the bottom mountains, perhaps try that for other mountains? Have the bonuses that border the mountains get darker as they go toward the mountains.
  • The rivers are too bright blue, IMO. It kind of clashes with the rest of the map, and there wouldn't be that much of a difference from the sea water and the freshwater. Also, some of the rivers extend out into the sea a bit in an odd way (the ones at the top of the Germany one).
  • What is the yellow thing sort of beind the und in the lable of Kroatien und Slawoien? look closely, if you don't see anything, then it could just be a trick my eyes are playing.
  • On the Italy one, the mountains in between Tyrol and Steiermark, the 3rd one up, which is really over Steiermark more than Tyrol, is the color of Tyrol, but it should be the color of Steirmark.
  • The sea connections could be made thinner (with a glow maybe?) since right now they stick out too much. Also curve them a bitmore, it looks akward when some are straight but some are curved, and the curved ones are better, IMO.


Some of that stuff is just nitpicky, so you can adress them later, but that is mose of the stuff I see graphics wise for now.

Edit: the objective text glow is too bright also, lower the opacity maybe?
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby Kabanellas on Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:38 am

Must say I like the graphics :)

Captain has a point about the rivers, and yes it all seems a little stretchy. I have no problem with it apart from the lines, especially the border lines that look a bit pixelated. The expanded gradient, being intentional and part of the graphic concept – it’s ok for me. I dig it
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/01/09

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:58 am

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image


Thanks for the nitpicks Cap'n and Kab. I think they helped for sure. I made a load of graphical changes, the big onebeing that I swapped out the background texture for something a little more aesthetically pleasing. I redrew the borders on Germany and adjusted the sea connections on Italy and added them in for Denmark to make sure it was clear. I overhauled the bonus boxes and adjusted the numbers some.

Alsace is worth 2 more points to Prussia West while only being worth plus 1 for France. As France has the advantage with the reduction of borders, the incentive to gain the bonus for West Prussia is greater, which should help to balance the game.

Let me know what you guys think, you've been a great help so far!
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/07/09

Postby ender516 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:38 am

If you decide not to go with my hatching suggestion, you might want to try placing the troop circles in the disputed/shared regions on the colour boundary. This might make it more apparent that the region falls into both zones. This looks very feasible in all cases except S.-H. which is a little cramped, unless you shift the colour boundary instead of the troop circle. Of course, with my hatching scheme, the boundary is diffused and the troop circle looks shared no matter where it sits. ;) Another reason to try my scheme is that it might avoid confusion about boundaries. For example, with the current colouring, Venezia, Lombaria, and Custoza almost look like four territories with one of those confusing four-corner boundaries. Yes, your hatching runs through all of Venezia, but my eye takes more note of the sharp colour boundary, leaving me wondering at first if Venezia can even attack Custoza.

Is there a typo in the legend? Is it not supposed to be "Preussische" (sorry, don't know the code for the German sharp s)? Also the colour of the PPR box does not match the map very well: it seems too white.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/07/09

Postby captainwalrus on Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:17 pm

=D> =D>
I like the new texture. It is really good.
There are some other nitpicky things that I will save for later.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/07/09

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:05 am

A map with the real regions (and names) to use with "regno delle due sicilie"

http://www.regione.abruzzo.it/ospiti/covatu/covatu_file/image050.jpg

it's possile to have smaller dots or something else for sea routes?
Finally add impassable on both maps and.... you'll be ready for a preliminary review ;)

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/07/09

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:24 pm

I made the Germany map larger so I could fit in the title, which I added to Italy as well.

I changed the sea routes in an attempt to look like chalk line or something. I really don't think i like the dots, so any suggestions on sea routes would be great!

Added impassables in the legend.

Made a few more name changes in Italy as per Nobodies request.

Tried to match the legend white with the Prussia white.

Changed hatches to stripes, much better I think.

Forgot to add a r in Preussiche but did it in the ps file after I uploaded to photobucket.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Click image to enlarge.
image
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/11/09

Postby ender516 on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:07 am

I'm glad the stripes worked out.

On the Italy map, in the Game Objective legend, "Control" is misspelled and there is no reason to abbreviate "Shields" to "Shiel.", and if there was a reason, "Shlds." would be a better abbreviation, don't you think?
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/11/09

Postby Seulessliathan on Mon Oct 12, 2009 12:17 am

looks interesting, but one request:

Can you please use german OR englisch names (for german ter, same for other countries)? Cologne & Bavaria OR Köln & Bayern etc? I hate unnecessary mixup of languages. If you need german names, pm me (or maybe better daydream, he is a master of both languages)
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification 10/11/09

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:00 am

The stripes are working great!!
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