German/Italian Unif.[D, Gp, Gr] BETA, all files p.1

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby Industrial Helix on Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:06 pm

Yeah, I basically took the sea route idea from Kabanellas' Third Crusade map. Basically, if two sea lanes connect at sea then it acts as a cross roads. I see what you mean about it being counter-intuitive at this point, however, I think it will clear up during a game pretty quick.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby jefjef on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:41 am

Hi Industrial!

Thought I'd stop & peek. (when do we get to play Amer colonies?)

Just a few minor things. I sure like blueish water.

Sea routes. White would look better. I liked the dashes you had in previous version.

The multiple routes coming off Cagliari. How about ya tie em all together?

The route from Ajaccio maybe connect it to Sassari instead.

The Lissa sea route. How about joining it a tert or two south? OR better yet an additional route to like Bari. You could use a little more flow and weight added to that bonus.

Thanks.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby ender516 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:50 am

jefjef wrote:Hi Industrial!

Thought I'd stop & peek. (when do we get to play Amer colonies?)

Just a few minor things. I sure like blueish water.

Sea routes. White would look better. I liked the dashes you had in previous version.

The multiple routes coming off Cagliari. How about ya tie em all together?

The route from Ajaccio maybe connect it to Sassari instead.

The Lissa sea route. How about joining it a tert or two south? OR better yet an additional route to like Bari. You could use a little more flow and weight added to that bonus.

Thanks.

If the multiple routes coming off Cagliari were to be tied together, it would imply more attack routes than the current arrangement has, for example, Genoa vs Calatafimi. I'm not saying that's bad, it's just different.
In fact, if all those routes were tied together, one might consider adding a Tyrrhenian Sea territory. Did maritime battles play a part in this history? Would it make sense to represent mastery of the seas in this area?
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:28 pm

I'll maybe blue up the water and I'll try white again with the dots.

As for the sea routes, the only major sea battle was at Lissa between A-H and Italy. I could definitely adjust the connection south as Jefjef points out, it could use from more connections. The sea routes in the west reflect the established routes of the islands. It seemed to me that it made sense that France would connect with Corsica and Piedmont would not. The same applies to Piedmont's connection to Sardinia as France would have no business with a connection there. The Corsica/Sardiana connection seemed logical to me given the closeness of the islands. I figured Piedmonte/Sardinia needed a connection to the southern tip of the boot as historically there was an invasion there. I believe there was historical precedent for the link to Rome.... though i can't recall it off the top of my head. I believe Garibaldi left from south Italy to Rome at some point.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby jefjef on Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:45 pm

You have good west established sea routes. But look at maybe connecting the route from Ajaccio to Sassari instead.

And look at connecting Provence to Bastia instead.

It would remove the hop, skip & jump feel to that area. Increases the strategic value of two terts and marginally lightens the weight on Cagliari.

Is 5 for A Kiralysag Magyarorszag right? Seems it should be worth 4 compared to the others & considering it's location.

But if you add a sea route to Bari area then 5 for sure would be good.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:04 pm

Blued up the sea and adjusted the sea lanes. Added one to Bari. I decided not to switch it to Bastia because I don't want the islands to be too easily threatened. I figure the sea should have some sort of barrier effect.

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/1 Gameplay!

Postby iancanton on Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:56 am

Industrial Helix wrote:it made sense that France would connect with Corsica and Piedmont would not. The same applies to Piedmont's connection to Sardinia as France would have no business with a connection there. The Corsica/Sardiana connection seemed logical to me given the closeness of the islands. I figured Piedmonte/Sardinia needed a connection to the southern tip of the boot as historically there was an invasion there. I believe there was historical precedent for the link to Rome.... though i can't recall it off the top of my head. I believe Garibaldi left from south Italy to Rome at some point.

i agree with all of this. however, elba should have a connection only to toscano, as it wasn't a trading or transport crossroads, nor did it play any part in battles. this will give to stati della chiesa one non-border region out of four. corsica can also be tied more closely to france by connecting ajaccio to either nice or cote d'azur (this helps with fortification by linking two border regions).

ian. :)
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby alexandrois on Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:46 am

With the italian map i would add some port symbols and just say all ports connect
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby Raskholnikov on Sun Nov 08, 2009 5:25 am

That would totally change the entire game-play dynamics. Not sure it fits with the author's vision for this game...

Lets say we have Venice, Genova, Naples, Palermo, Brindisi... the minimum I think. To hold a region one must cosolidate each port to be stronger than up to 4 other players combined... This may work in different types of games without region bonuses - but here, I think it would make it very hard to win any region bonuses at all. The entire dynamic of the game would shift towards consolidating one's own port and denying others theirs. Anyway, that's just my feeling.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:13 pm

Ian- I see your point, I'll drop the elba connection. As for adding another connection for France... I'm hesitant but it might be a good idea for gameplay. Like I said before, i don't want the islands to be too difficult to hold... but I think it might make it slightly easier to hold France if I did add the connection. I'll try it out and see how it fits.

alex- Well, see Rash.'s answer. That's the basic reason I don't want to tie them all together.

Rash. - Yeah, agreed. Good insight!
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:17 am

Updated the sea lanes...

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby jefjef on Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:48 am

Looks good! Nice clean up on the sea lanes.

I see one dot a bright white. How about the rest of them? I think it would look a lot better.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby The Neon Peon on Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:37 pm

I'd like to see the drop shadow leave the sea lines.
I'd also like to see the opacity of the glow on the title reduced.

Both just seem to pop off the map a bit too match. They are gathering all of my attention.

Very nice style on the two maps.

Why is " [7] With Savoy " in the legend twice?
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby ender516 on Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:54 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:I'd like to see the drop shadow leave the sea lines.
I'd also like to see the opacity of the glow on the title reduced.

Both just seem to pop off the map a bit too match. They are gathering all of my attention.

Very nice style on the two maps.

Why is " [7] With Savoy " in the legend twice?

The "With ..." entries in the legend indicate an additional bonus for holding the extra territory in addition to the bonus above:
6 for Regno Di Piemonte-Sardegna, 7 for Regno Di Piemonte-Sardegna plus Savoy; 6 for L'Empire des Francais, 7 for L'Empire des Francais plus Savoy, and so on.

Now that my attention has been drawn to the bonus legend, a couple of comments:

  • There is one place where Venezia is misspelled Venecia.
  • It might help avoid confusion like The Neon Peon's if the colours behind the additional bonus were swapped to match the bonus colour in the corresponding box above, that is, for example, swap the purple and green on the "With Savoy" box below the "L'Empire des Francais" box so that the purple portions are adjacent. This would also be done for the "With Venezia" (after the spelling fix) box beneath the "Osterreich" box and the "With Romagna" box beneath the "Stati della Chiesa" box. I don't know how the split boxes are constructed, but a 180 degree rotation would do the trick.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby iancanton on Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:58 am

jefjef wrote:Looks good! Nice clean up on the sea lanes.

seconded. lissa is now the convergence point for a battle!

steirmark and dalmatia were part of austria and not of hungary, so they need to be moved into the yellow bonus, along with lissa (u can't really show the yellow-and-green on such a small island).

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceurop ... 71914.html

this leaves hungary with only 2 regions, so try splitting them into kroatien, slawonien, alsó-magyarország (lower hungary) and felső-magyarország (upper hungary).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_Hungary

we also placed custoza too far west. it is south-east of lake garda and close to verona, which is part of the veneto region (called venezia here), not lombardy. let milano be called magenta (another famous battle), let custoza be renamed milano and split venezia into a western custoza region and an eastern venezia region.

http://turismo.provincia.milano.it/turi ... l?id=33922
http://www.italianmade.com/wines/doc10045.cfm

this results in 3 too many non-neutral regions on the map. possible regions to merge are the two corsica regions, the two sardinia regions, abbruzzo and capitanata (new name abruzzi e molise - this merger is especially beneficial for gameplay because due sicilie becomes easier to hold) and consenza with basilicata (new name calabria).

http://winecountry.it/regions/abruzzo/

The Kingdom of Southern Italy came to an end in 1860 following Garibaldi's victorious campaign that united modern Italy. Abruzzo was then joined with Molise into a single region known as Abruzzi e Molise.

ian. :)
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