German/Italian Unif.[D, Gp, Gr] BETA, all files p.1

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 Gameplay!

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 15, 2009 2:53 pm

OK, I made most of the changes recommended. I rotated the boxes so they match with the above box, dropped some of the glow on the titles and lowered the drop shadow on the sea lanes. I made most of the name and territory changes that you suggested, Ian, but I did something a little different with Custoza. I want the territories that held the major battles to mean something, which was why originally it was a straight shot from Venezia to Piemont... so instead of adding another territory in there, I moved the east border over some so as to cover the actual spot, and brought back the straight shot via Custoza. It should be on the location as well as have gameplay significance. I also changed the Austro-Hungarian Empire around... Hungary is divided differently now and has most of croatia... I looked at a map and Dalmatia was kind of a detached set of islands part of Austria. That wouldn't make too much sense gameplay wise for me, so I relocated the border with Krain. It's fudging it, but I think it makes sense for the game play of this map.

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby ender516 on Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:13 pm

Another good update. I'm glad you took my suggestion about rotating the boxes, but I think you missed the "With Romagna" box below the "Stati della Chiesa" box.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Nov 15, 2009 4:25 pm

Yep, I sure missed it. I just rotated it on my version. You'll see it in the next update.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby ender516 on Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:43 pm

Say, if you are still looking for different ways to draw the sea routes, and if you are using Photoshop, or know enough about it to emulate its features in the tool you do use, you might want to look at this idea. The graphics gurus discussing it seemed excited, but it's too far outside my knowledge space to comment very cogently.
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby iancanton on Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:40 pm

the connections look pretty good now and u've made a decent job of hungary too. the only exception i can see is the bottom of the map, where cagliari-calatafimi-catania-messina-cosenza feels far too much like a section of rail sicily. can calatafimi border both messina and catania instead of only catania? also extend the apennine mountains so that lazio cannot attack abruzzi e molise - this is a cardinal fact of italian geography.

understandably, with all the recent changes, bonuses haven't kept pace and most look a bit high. the most obvious ones are hungary, which is a +2 rather than a +4, and france, which is a +4 (+5 with savoy) and not a +6 - france is nicely tucked away in the corner with only one enemy able to reach him. piemonte needs to be reduced to +5 (+6 with savoy) because it makes such a powerful combination, with only 4 borders, with france. ducati di toscana's +4 (+5 with romagna) was a hangover from when it had 4 borders; now that it has only 3, the bonus can be reduced to +3 (+4 with romagna). the two sicilies with reduced regions is now almost exactly classic europe or north america (+5 instead of +6). the only bonus that looks low is lombardy: maybe it can be +3 instead of +2, now that it has one extra region.

ian. :)
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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Hmm... interesting idea, Ender... Definitely a good find. I'll play with it and see what I come up with. For the time being, I like the dots and if necessary, will address the sea lanes come Graphics stamp time.

Ian, your crits have been taken and put into effect. I agree with everything, but withheld on the "with Savoy bonuses" as those bonuses now read "with Nice and Savoy." I'm open to reducing them, but I think some consideration ought to be given to them as it now requires two territories to get the bonus.

As for Germany, I made a graphics color switch. I think its an improvement... but I'm not 100% satisfied. It's late, I'll give it a mess about later. It just seems to lack the clarity that the Italy map has. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I also removed Luxembourg from the superbonus of France and West Prussia. It just seems historically inaccurate... well, it is. But As previously mentioned it should have some role and the gameplay would be better for it. For now, it is a non-bonus and will start just like any other territory.

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby iancanton on Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:14 am

Industrial Helix wrote:those bonuses now read "with Nice and Savoy." I'm open to reducing them, but I think some consideration ought to be given to them as it now requires two territories to get the bonus.

good catch on nice and savoy: since they were handed over to france together, it makes sense that they are treated the same way on our map. i agree with the +2 extra for holding nice and savoy with either france or piemonte. the newly-reduced france, being in the corner, is a much easier bonus than piemonte and therefore ought to have a lower bonus of +3 (+5 with nice and savoy - 8 regions with 4 borders, similar to regno delle due sicilie). move the troop circle for nice to the south-west, so that we can see the border with genoa and the purple colour of the bottom stripe.

i've just noticed that the green, grey and white zones are all completely linear, for example lazio-roma-umbria-marche, giving a repetitive pattern. perhaps let lazio connect with umbria to reduce this effect (this looks like the easiest border to tweak).

u've reduced the ducati di toscana with romagna bonus to +4, as intended, but left the without romagna bonus unchanged at +4.

on the germany map, i wonder whether creating a luxemburg bonus box with the number 0 in it would be a neater way to show its zero bonus.

ian. :)
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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/19 p. 7 Bonus? Luxembourg? Nice?

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:35 am

Thanks Ian. I think all the suggestions were adopted, plus a few graphical clean ups I made.

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Re: Wars for German and Italian Unification [D] 11/5 GP! p. 7

Postby iancanton on Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:16 pm

i've just been to geneva, where the red cross is based. henry dunant founded this organisation as a result of seeing the wounded from the battle of solferino, in 1859. might solferino be a more appropriate name for the lombardy region? it has the advantage that the region doesn't have a similar name to the bonus zone of which it is a part. the location is also correct for solferino, though u might like to change the border so that, of the 3 lombardy regions, only custoza connnects to venezia.

http://www.redcross.org.uk/standard.asp?id=90628

iancanton wrote:the newly-reduced france, being in the corner, is a much easier bonus than piemonte and therefore ought to have a lower bonus of +3 (+5 with nice and savoy - 8 regions with 4 borders, similar to regno delle due sicilie).

once u amend france to +3 (+5 with nice and savoy) in the legend, so that this bonus balances regno delle due sicilie, i see no major gameplay issues for italy. a single stamp will be applied for both maps together, unless u prefer one for each.

three of what i presume are spelling mistakes on the germany map: the spellings i know are württemberg, salzburg and breslau.

http://www.baden-wuerttemberg.de/en/index.html
http://www.visit-salzburg.net/
http://www.wroclaw-life.com/wroclaw/breslau

keeping the same bonus colours on both maps for france, austria and hungary is a nice touch.

ian. :)
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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/19 p. 7 Bonus? Luxembourg? Nice?

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:32 pm

Well... that was kind of quick. This map is progressing so much faster than 13 Colonies... but I think its partially because I'm not making a lot of the same mistakes.

Anyway, here's Italy adjusted... i won't be posting it until the gameplay stamp has been awarded and Germany has been settled. So lets get talking about Germany!

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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/24 p. 7 Make Bismarck proud...

Postby number five on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:28 am

so if you had green and gray you would get bonus of 12?
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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/24 p. 7 Make Bismarck proud...

Postby RjBeals on Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:51 am

georgous maps. well done. the only thing i would suggest is try to blend the river into the ocean a bit more. It's tough to do and make it look good, but it can be done.

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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/24 p. 7 Make Bismarck proud...

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:07 pm

If you held green and gray, you'd get either 8 or 11, depending on whether you hold the optional territories.

RJ, I see what you mean and yeah, its probably worth it. Once these get GP'd I'll hit it with the graphics.
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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/24 p. 7 Make Bismarck proud...

Postby iancanton on Fri Nov 27, 2009 5:35 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:This map is progressing so much faster than 13 Colonies... but I think its partially because I'm not making a lot of the same mistakes.

there's no substitute for experience. u spent a lot of time early on experimenting with various things to make the map look good, which had to be discarded once the advanced graphics analysis started.

Industrial Helix wrote:If you held green and gray, you'd get either 8 or 11, depending on whether you hold the optional territories.

what happens if u hold green and purple? my feeling is that the +2 extra bonus for nice & savoy ought to be given only once, so that the total bonus is +10 and not +12. we need to say so somehow on the map, since it isn't completely clear just now.

iancanton wrote:might solferino be a more appropriate name for the lombardy region? it has the advantage that the region doesn't have a similar name to the bonus zone of which it is a part. the location is also correct for solferino, though u might like to change the border so that, of the 3 lombardy regions, only custoza connnects to venezia.

u didn't like this idea?

on the germany map, salzberg has somehow been transformed into salzbuttrg instead of salzburg, while württemberg still needs that extra t. the west preussen colour on the map doesn't match that in the legend.

try extending baden so that it meets plfalz and turns württemberg into a non-border region, as shown on the map below. is it worth removing the bridge to elsass? this bonus zone will still be fiendish to hold.

http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/germany/xbaden.html

ian. :)
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Re: German/Italian Unif. [D] 11/24 p. 7 Make Bismarck proud...

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:35 pm

Ian, I think I missed the bit on Solferino, but I changed it this round. I also adopted most of your suggestions save for the second bridge across the Rhine, now extending from Baden. I think two bridges are necessary as to reflect the invasion of France in the Franco-Prussian War.

I definitely agree on only receiving the bonus once though the notion of securing it twice is interesting... I mean, I France turned the war around and invaded Prussia than it would have been doing extremely well, the double bonus reflects this. I dunno... I'm uncertain as how this might play out in the XML and whether or not the XMl will allow it to only be awarded once. If any XML experts can give me some thoughts on this let me know.

RJ- I ran a blur on the river into the sea... let me know how you think it is. It seems better to me, but another set of eyes are always appreciated.

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