First Nations of South America!

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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Incandenza on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:16 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Right, I can see what Incandenza is saying about the Meso-america bonus. It could probably go either way---I assume the current lean towards 3 reflects a desire for bonus diversity on the map (I.E. you have a bunch of two's already, and most likely didn't want to add another 2?). In addition to that, the map already seems to lean towards the higher bonus value (Chilean, Central Andes, Eastern Forest) so Meso-America probably has enough precedent for 3. But it is still something to consider, as Incandenza points out, because of it's starting position relative to other bonus zones.


The north does appear to be the best place to start (if I can get M-A early enough, then I can snag Northern Andes and all of a sudden have a 9-terit 3-border +5), and by knocking the M-A bonus down a notch, it'll take some of the teeth out of it. I totally get Andy's point about bonus diversity, I'm just not sure that's a good enough reason to potentially unbalance the map. It's not a deal-breaker, just another idea for the stewpot.

Tisha wrote:oh, but the.killing.44 is only 14 so his post don't count? O:)


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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby the.killing.44 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:19 pm

Tisha wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:As for the bridges---I like the style, though the color stands out.

--Andy


the.killing.44 wrote: I still don't think they stand out enough on the map, though.


:lol:



oh, but the.killing.44 is only 14 so his post don't count? O:)

:lol: Haha :)

Yeah, what Andy said ;)
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:31 pm

I think the bridges are a step in the right direction... but something is missing with them. Perhaps they're too flat? Maybe if you approached them from a 3/4 view rather than straight above.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:46 am

Incandenza wrote:The north does appear to be the best place to start (if I can get M-A early enough, then I can snag Northern Andes and all of a sudden have a 9-terit 3-border +5), and by knocking the M-A bonus down a notch, it'll take some of the teeth out of it.


Agree with Incandenza.
The north is the best place to start and with a already written plot, take MA (+3), then take N Andes (+2) with 9 regions and 2 to defend, it seems too easy go to south and take also N Amazon for a +8 to defend only from 3 regions (aparai,jivaro,quito). If the player will take chimu, it will take the C Andes easily without leaving the time to the others to do anything to stop him.
Give only +2 will not cause major changes but ,at least, it gives some time to the other players to do something to prevent this strategy.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby WidowMakers on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:07 pm

Looks great. With all of this talk about colorblind in other maps I figured I would go ahead and look at this one.

There seem to be many of the colors that blend to much. I don't know how the NA map fixed this issue.
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I also think the bridges need more. I know you are going for a painted look but right now they look like flat stickers that do not fit. Maybe give them more perspective (smaller at top wider at bottom). I like cairns idea of Indiana Jones style. I just think the current ones look too big and exact to fit the theme. Especially for the time period.

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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Hatchman on Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:32 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:I think the bridges are a step in the right direction... but something is missing with them. Perhaps they're too flat? Maybe if you approached them from a 3/4 view rather than straight above.


Yeah they need more "dimension", but the style is right-on.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Ogrecrusher on Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:51 am

There's been a lot of talk about the North becoming too strong too easily. Here's my suggestion, add Trinidad, Curacao and maybe Jamaica to make a sea route through the Carribean to Central America, making an island bonus too. Maybe you don't have the territories to do this, but I thought I'd say it!
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby jefjef on Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:42 pm

A connection Arawak to Palenque would open the north a little and eliminate the bottle neck.

Also why not just go with the canoes? It is the sister map of N Amer. And works.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby natty dread on Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:12 am

Is it possible to make eastern forest a bit greener? It's a bit hard to distinguish from southern amazon.
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Re: First Nations of South America

Postby MrBenn on Sun Nov 15, 2009 6:16 pm

Tisha wrote:42 or 48 territories? someone decide for me..

Personally I'd go for more.... If you could sneak it up to 53, then you'd have a better amount for 8 player games, with no "unfairness" with a player starting with 12/15/18 terrs...
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Tisha on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:48 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Looks great. With all of this talk about colorblind in other maps I figured I would go ahead and look at this one.

There seem to be many of the colors that blend to much. I don't know how the NA map fixed this issue.
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WM


which colors blend to much?
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:59 pm

Tisha wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:Looks great. With all of this talk about colorblind in other maps I figured I would go ahead and look at this one.

There seem to be many of the colors that blend to much. I don't know how the NA map fixed this issue.
Image

WM


which colors blend to much?

From that image, I see two bonus groups. All to the northeast of the mountains; all to the southwest.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Tisha on Mon Nov 16, 2009 1:06 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:
Tisha wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:Looks great. With all of this talk about colorblind in other maps I figured I would go ahead and look at this one.

There seem to be many of the colors that blend to much. I don't know how the NA map fixed this issue.
Image

WM


which colors blend to much?

From that image, I see two bonus groups. All to the northeast of the mountains; all to the southwest.

how can you say Southern Forest is the same as N. Amazon.. how can you not see the difference in color between Kuna and Choco?
](*,)

edit: even if I squint really tight, I can still make out 8 different regions...

Ogrecrusher wrote:There's been a lot of talk about the North becoming too strong too easily. Here's my suggestion, add Trinidad, Curacao and maybe Jamaica to make a sea route through the Carribean to Central America, making an island bonus too. Maybe you don't have the territories to do this, but I thought I'd say it!


I don't think there is room to go north.. the map is as tall as it can be right now. I'll check it out..
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Incandenza on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:05 pm

Tisha wrote:which colors blend to much?


Central and South Andes seem to be the main perpetrators... otherwise it seems doable...
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby the.killing.44 on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:09 pm

Okay fair enough, N. Amazon is distinguishable. I see Meso-America & N. Andes as one; N. Amazon as its own; S. Amazon, E. Forest, and S. Forest as another; Patagonia as its own; Chilean & S. Andes together; and C. Andes as its own—barely.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Risky_Stud on Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:37 pm

the.killing.44 wrote:Okay fair enough, N. Amazon is distinguishable. I see Meso-America & N. Andes as one; N. Amazon as its own; S. Amazon, E. Forest, and S. Forest as another; Patagonia as its own; Chilean & S. Andes together; and C. Andes as its own—barely.


Dude, I'm practically blind and i can see the diff. :roll:
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby ender516 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:49 am

Having joined the list of preliminary reviewers and received my notice from thenobodies80 (almost two weeks ago, I'm ashamed to admit), I am here to make my comments with regard to the possible transition of this map from the Drafting Room to the Main Foundry.

Having taken a quick review of the Drafting Room guidelines, I would say that just about everything has been well covered. As a companion to the First Nations of North America map, this one is of course less than completely original, but it certainly is interesting. No doubt tournament directors will enjoy putting this map up for play with FNNA (and any others yet to come?).

I said just about before, because I don't see
a plan for how the gameplay will work,
but to be honest, I'm not quite sure that means, aside from, in this case, stating that the gameplay is essentially standard with no bombardments, non-obvious connections, or complicated bonus structures. Perhaps this should be stated explicitly in the first post.

The only other comments I will make right now are:
  • confusion between the names Choco and Chono when deploying or reinforcing may be the source of much wailing, gnashing of teeth, and rending of garments, so an alternative for one or the other would be welcome;
  • the colour-blind check above pointed out to me something that I can now see in the original image: Chono and Mapuche are each a little lacking in the colour which defines their bonus zone
Neither of those comments are a reason to hold this map back from moving to the Main Foundry. I just thought I would throw them in while I'm here. I recommend the award of the Draft stamp and the move to the Main Foundry.

(Anyone unfamiliar with the process of Preliminary Review and wishing to become involved should see the Preliminary Reviews topic.)
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Incandenza on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:57 pm

Good point about the Chono and Choco, t'would be nice if an alternative could be found for one or the other...
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby jpcloet on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:08 pm

Incandenza wrote:Good point about the Chono and Choco, t'would be nice if an alternative could be found for one or the other...


Not required though. Eg. Egypt Lower: Ament and A-Ment are right beside each other.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby the.killing.44 on Fri Nov 20, 2009 10:20 pm

jpcloet wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Good point about the Chono and Choco, t'would be nice if an alternative could be found for one or the other...


Not required though. Eg. Egypt Lower: Ament and A-Ment are right beside each other.

Nobody likes that, though.

viewtopic.php?f=358&t=74069&p=1903802&hilit=shaanxi+greater+china#p1903802

If it's not too hard that would be a big improvement.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby soundman on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:46 am

the.killing.44 wrote:
jpcloet wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Good point about the Chono and Choco, t'would be nice if an alternative could be found for one or the other...


Not required though. Eg. Egypt Lower: Ament and A-Ment are right beside each other.

Nobody likes that, though.

viewtopic.php?f=358&t=74069&p=1903802&hilit=shaanxi+greater+china#p1903802

If it's not too hard that would be a big improvement.

I agree. I don't like the Ament and A-Ment so certainly would like Chono and Choco to change. Good map so far! :)
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby ender516 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:54 am

soundman wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:
jpcloet wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Good point about the Chono and Choco, t'would be nice if an alternative could be found for one or the other...


Not required though. Eg. Egypt Lower: Ament and A-Ment are right beside each other.

Nobody likes that, though.

viewtopic.php?f=358&t=74069&p=1903802&hilit=shaanxi+greater+china#p1903802

If it's not too hard that would be a big improvement.

I agree. I don't like the Ament and A-Ment so certainly would like Chono and Choco to change. Good map so far! :)

Not to mention that a mistaken deployment to an adjacent region can possibly be worked around or recovered from much more easily than one to a region all the way at the other end of the map.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby MrBenn on Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:58 pm

soundman wrote:
the.killing.44 wrote:
jpcloet wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Good point about the Chono and Choco, t'would be nice if an alternative could be found for one or the other...


Not required though. Eg. Egypt Lower: Ament and A-Ment are right beside each other.

Nobody likes that, though.

viewtopic.php?f=358&t=74069&p=1903802&hilit=shaanxi+greater+china#p1903802

If it's not too hard that would be a big improvement.

I agree. I don't like the Ament and A-Ment so certainly would like Chono and Choco to change. Good map so far! :)

Just because it's slipped through the net on another map, doesn't mean that we should let it slip here too (the other example is Shangxi and Shaangxi on the China map)
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby Incandenza on Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:16 pm

And there used to be an issue on the Philippines map, Cagayan/Cayagan or something along those lines, but it was fixed after people (including yours truly) screwed up deploys and protested.

It's a small fix, but it's a pretty user-friendly one.
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Re: First Nations of South America.. new bridges 11/07

Postby rdsrds2120 on Sun Nov 29, 2009 3:04 am

Eh, new bridges I think. But I do kinda have to double take to see the borders in N Amazon. Kind of confusing, but I think that would be ok for a place like, oh say the amazon having rivers. :mrgreen:
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