[Official] Classic Revamp [Quenched]

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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Tiller on Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:58 am

Is there any chance that the World Cities map could be rolled out in tandem with this so that we get two at once? I know you're going for familiarity with this one, but it's the unfamiliarity of the other arrangement around the Atlantic that I like, the reversal breaks down the mental block I have against it. I never play Classic anything anymore because I got completely bored with looking at the same map (abstracted or not), at least WC changed the visual arrangement up so that I could get interested in it again. And putting out WC when this exists would maybe allow a few minor tweaks to gameplay that were refused to it before...
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby WidowMakers on Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:40 am

Incandenza wrote:Hmmm, instead of having anchorage connect to seoul, how about replacing seoul with Petropavlovsk? Not a huge city by any stretch of the imagination, but it is the largest city in Kamchatka, giving the new map a nice symmetry with the old.

I agree. Northern Asia is quite bare right now. Plus it would give a nod back to Kamchatka as Inc has explained.

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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby SultanOfSurreal on Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:43 am

MrBenn wrote:There are certain aspects of the revamp that are non-negotiable - these include the map projection (ie Americas on the left, Eurasia on the right),


that's fucking retarded, you've shoehorned a great map into a mold that it doesn't fit into for completely arbitrary reasons
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby padsta on Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:44 am

I love this new map and can't wait for it to replace shapes. The only problem i have is asia looks a little cramped, why not utilise that bare patch in the north and spread it out a bit, other than that awesome work sully
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby pamoa on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:55 am

I love this new version of the classic map
great graphics
but
why did Istanbul 13 millions inhabitants transform in Athens 4 millions inhabitants
what would be Europe without Paris
where is Beijing
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:16 am

pamoa wrote:I love this new version of the classic map
great graphics
but
why did Istanbul 13 millions inhabitants transform in Athens 4 millions inhabitants
what would be Europe without Paris
where is Beijing


Since the bonus region is now named Europe (and not Europe + Mediterranean) I thought Athens was more appropriate. Istanbul has a lot of European influence, but is on the Asian continent. It's certainly a much bigger city, but it's hard to argue that Athens isn't "worldly". Anyway, I can be swayed on this one for sure.

Paris seems to be an impossibility based on it's proximity to it's neighbors. As you may know, I tried Paris when this map was first made, and it just doesn't fit between Madrid/London/Rome unfortunately. I know it's the biggest shame of the map at the moment.

Beijing was knocked off for a Shanghai/Seoul combo in this edition which I think was a fairly good trade. As you can see by the other version floating through this thread I used to have Beijing and then some less famous Asian cities (Magadan). It seems like people would prefer a more spread out Asia with less populous cities. Please refer to the other version and let me know if you think that is an improvement.

I kind of like the current Asia though. It feels cramped, but Asian cities ARE cramped. Western Russia feels sparse and it IS sparse. I suppose to be consistent I would have to eliminate cities like Anchorage and Edmonton and add Toronto/Atlanta or something to that effect. Let me know if that sounds workable, or if spread out cities are preferred over the biggest world cities.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby saaimen on Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:30 am

I'd stick with important world cities. Indeed Toronto and Atlanta sound more familiar.

Nice revamp though that wasn't your original intention.
One thing though, don't take this personal... I'd drop the skyline. Keep it pure.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby yeti_c on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:37 am

pamoa wrote:what would be Europe without Paris


A better place?

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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby pamoa on Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:45 am

pamoa wrote:what would be Europe without Paris

yeti_c wrote:A better place?

it's true I forget London is now part of the American Empire ;)

sully800 wrote:Paris seems to be an impossibility based on it's proximity to it's neighbors. As you may know, I tried Paris when this map was first made, and it just doesn't fit between Madrid/London/Rome unfortunately. I know it's the biggest shame of the map at the moment.

then why not Brussels as Europe "capital" instead of Berlin

sully800 wrote:... Istanbul has a lot of European influence, but is on the Asian continent...

well you need to look more closely to your map as it is mainly on the north-western side of the Bosphorus which is in ... Europe
so maybe can you reconsider it

for the Anchorage Edmonton Astana case I understand you needed some cities up there even if everybody knows it impossible to live there :lol:
maybe Calgary instead of Edmonton as it was an Winter Olympics spot
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Bruceswar on Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:39 am

WidowMakers wrote:
Incandenza wrote:Hmmm, instead of having anchorage connect to seoul, how about replacing seoul with Petropavlovsk? Not a huge city by any stretch of the imagination, but it is the largest city in Kamchatka, giving the new map a nice symmetry with the old.

I agree. Northern Asia is quite bare right now. Plus it would give a nod back to Kamchatka as Inc has explained.

WM



I agree also :)
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Evil DIMwit on Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:09 am

sully800 wrote:
pamoa wrote:I love this new version of the classic map
great graphics
but
why did Istanbul 13 millions inhabitants transform in Athens 4 millions inhabitants
what would be Europe without Paris
where is Beijing


Since the bonus region is now named Europe (and not Europe + Mediterranean) I thought Athens was more appropriate. Istanbul has a lot of European influence, but is on the Asian continent. It's certainly a much bigger city, but it's hard to argue that Athens isn't "worldly". Anyway, I can be swayed on this one for sure.


Istanbul is half in Europe and half in Asia. In fact, more people live in European Istanbul than in Asian Istanbul -- and each is more than the population of Athens.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby ender516 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:40 am

pamoa wrote:
sully800 wrote:Paris seems to be an impossibility based on it's proximity to it's neighbors. As you may know, I tried Paris when this map was first made, and it just doesn't fit between Madrid/London/Rome unfortunately. I know it's the biggest shame of the map at the moment.

then why not Brussels as Europe "capital" instead of Berlin

Conceptually, I like Brussels, but from a practical standpoint, it is much too close to London for this map.
pamoa wrote:for the Anchorage Edmonton Astana case I understand you needed some cities up there even if everybody knows it impossible to live there :lol:
maybe Calgary instead of Edmonton as it was an Winter Olympics spot

Calgary is larger and further south, while Edmonton is the capital of the province of Alberta. There is a long time rivalry between these two cities, so picking one over the other may stir up some fuss here, which is not necessarily bad. Another set of possibilities a bit further east would be Saskatoon, the largest city in Saskatchewan, or Regina, the capital. I suspect there may be a rivalry there, but they don't have all the sports teams that the Albertans have to keep the fires burning.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:42 am

Most certainly Istanbul has the population factor over Athens. Athens has a bit more historical importance in my opinion though I generally sided with population and current importance. To be consistent, I will switch back to Istanbul.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:45 am

sully800 wrote:Most certainly Istanbul has the population factor over Athens. Athens has a bit more historical importance in my opinion though I generally sided with population and current importance. To be consistent, I will switch back to Istanbul.


I'd argue Istanbul/Byzantium/Constantinople has probably just as much importance as Athens, both in terms of regional history, world history, culture, etc.


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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby ender516 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:55 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
sully800 wrote:Most certainly Istanbul has the population factor over Athens. Athens has a bit more historical importance in my opinion though I generally sided with population and current importance. To be consistent, I will switch back to Istanbul.


I'd argue Istanbul/Byzantium/Constantinople has probably just as much importance as Athens, both in terms of regional history, world history, culture, etc.


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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby RedBaron0 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:12 pm

The only city you could use for a more authentic "Kamchatka" would be Magadan, but the population is barely 100,000, unless you move a little farther inland and pick Yakutsk with a population over 200,000, but since that is a territory on the wrisk map, that won't likely fly. I don't think it matters that much if there's a territory the matches the placement on the original map, it's more than close enough.

Good job Sully!
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby jiminski on Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:28 pm

genuinely no offence intended but in my opinion the graphics need to be completely revamped and a new narrative discovered.

Again forgive my lack of diplomacy but i will post only once in here so i can not afford to beat around the bush.

-The landmasses lack texture and gravitas.
-The whole character of the image reminds me of a primary school encyclopaedia which introduces the brand new reader to the cities of the world. "Say 'Hola!' to Pedro .. he from Bathelona!"
-The image of the skyscrapers also looks like an after-thought... or perhaps constructed to appeal to the childs eyes.
-The territory links are obtuse and clumsy.
-The arbitrary flags as border are lazy, bold and distracting.

How would i fix it? .. good question and not easy to address! .. but as i have been blunt to the point of rude (i apologise Sully you are a decent chap who certainly deserves more consideration and tact!)

-Landmasses could use a hint of reality, a topographical allusion. That would lend the overall feel of the image some grandeur
-Texture, refinement and detail will add adultness and engagement with ones intellect.
-Take the peripheral graphics out from their cartoonlike theme... it demeans the impact, perhaps some more detailed artistry, line-drawn, architectural, Watercolour?... i am not sure as it needs to partner a new tone for the whole persona of the entire cartographic image.
-No idea how to alter the links to make them work .... i realise you can not use territory borders due to copyright ... but at present they seem like a compromise; something there through necessity.
-The flags as a border could work .. but rough em up a little, they are blocky and naive. (intentional and in keeping with the map i understand but they and the tone is not indicative of the flagship of the site)

In truth i always i envisaged the replacement of the godfather of maps, the reason pretty much all of are or were ever here, as a wondrous experiment in artistry. Something to titillate the ocular taste buds. An image which at once lays siege to our sense of comfort and settles in wistful, joyful reminisce. A map which lives-up to an idealised and sainted perception of its predecessor.
....something along the lines of the of what we saw for the Brazil map!

Here, and again i truly apologise for my uncharacteristic lack of temper Sully, we have an image which simply fills the place as better than nothing. (better than the abominable classic shapes) In my opinion it lacks derision, as commentators are just grateful for anything... where they never believed anything could come!

Gampelay: practically perfect!

bye,

jim
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby azezzo on Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:45 pm

sully800 wrote:The current version (division on the Pacific) was chosen because it will be more recognizable to new players and more familiar to players who knew the original Classic. I know there are several advantages to the Pacific split in terms of cities (America and Oceania get more, for example) but the benefits of having a recognizable and familiar map outweighed the other options.

To be a revamped Classic this is the orientation we must proceed with, I don't think that point can be up for debate.



makes perfect sense to me, when do we expect to be able to play it?
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby lackattack on Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:53 pm

sully800 wrote:[*]Adjust the red in the title. I initially liked the light red because it fits well with the pastels of the city line, but a brighter color will go better with the CC logo. Shooting for a middle ground in the next draft.[/list]


Yes, please do what you can to portray that this is the official map of Conquer Club. As well as using something more similiar to the CC logo you can also use our "official" flag icons (I'm sending you a an email now with hi-res flag icons attached) instead of the current flags.

It seems you already are doing this but I'd try to choose cities from the continents of our old Classic whenever possible, to help keep this revamp recognizeable.

Also, I think jiminski has a point about the city line being a bit on the juvenile side. Do you think you can do something more sophisticated? Sorry to be critical, but this is our flagship map and all! ;)
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby laddida on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:27 pm

if this is revamping the classic shapes isnt the game play suppose to be about the same? Looks like spots are pretty much moved all over the place
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby maasman on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:38 pm

are you looking for exact gameplay from classic or something really close? because the territories in asia are a little wrong i believe
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby ender516 on Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:43 pm

laddida wrote:if this is revamping the classic shapes isnt the game play suppose to be about the same? Looks like spots are pretty much moved all over the place

The spots may have moved, but the connections are equivalent. There is a one-to-one correspondence between the cities here and the classic regions, and all connections here match up with connections on the Classic Shapes map or with borders on the Classic Art or Hasbro map, so all your strategies will work just as well here as on the old maps.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby captainwalrus on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:17 pm

Why not Mecca instead of Dubai? It has more cultural importance, even if it is not as important in the business world.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby maasman on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:38 pm

No, something is not right.
If you look at classic shapes, A5 has 6 border connections
Chengdu and Delhi have 5 connections respectively (the most connections in Asia on this map), but NOT 6
There are border connections that need to be addressed.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby john9blue on Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:39 pm

ender516 wrote:The spots may have moved, but the connections are equivalent. There is a one-to-one correspondence between the cities here and the classic regions, and all connections here match up with connections on the Classic Shapes map or with borders on the Classic Art or Hasbro map, so all your strategies will work just as well here as on the old maps.


The board game is different than Old Classic (Kamchatka and Mongolia were connected) which is different than this map (Hong Kong and Mumbai should be connected). I think other than Asia all three are the exact same, but changes need to be made. ;)



EDIT: And what maasman said. And maybe more. :?
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Captain john9blue
 
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:18 pm
Location: FlutterChi-town
Medals: 14
Standard Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)

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