[Official] Classic Revamp [Quenched]

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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:20 am

lackattack wrote:
sully800 wrote:[*]Adjust the red in the title. I initially liked the light red because it fits well with the pastels of the city line, but a brighter color will go better with the CC logo. Shooting for a middle ground in the next draft.[/list]


Yes, please do what you can to portray that this is the official map of Conquer Club. As well as using something more similiar to the CC logo you can also use our "official" flag icons (I'm sending you a an email now with hi-res flag icons attached) instead of the current flags.

It seems you already are doing this but I'd try to choose cities from the continents of our old Classic whenever possible, to help keep this revamp recognizeable.

Also, I think jiminski has a point about the city line being a bit on the juvenile side. Do you think you can do something more sophisticated? Sorry to be critical, but this is our flagship map and all! ;)



I agree. Africa needs to be shifted as the old Madagascar is now in South Africa. Then the Rest can move around :)
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby NemesisChild on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:12 am

I have 2 issues with the map as it stands at the moment one of which I'm sure has been pointed out before

1. there is a very large empty space of land above novosibirsk (grr thats gotta be spelled wrong) which makes all the circles below it seem squashed in (IMO)

2. maybe it's my eyesight or sceren res i'm using but africa looks out of proportion some how, it looks about the right length but seems vey thin, kinda like its slowly melting and slipping towards the bottom of the map

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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby mpjh on Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:27 am

This map is way too cluttered. The maps are a real distraction -- and the floating city -- what is that, OZ? That a look at the original classic -- the one we cannot use -- no clutter.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby RjBeals on Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:56 am

NemesisChild wrote:1. there is a very large empty space of land above novosibirsk (grr thats gotta be spelled wrong) which makes all the circles below it seem squashed in (IMO)
Northern russia is really just waste land. Sully could reposition the circles, but it wouldn't be realistic then. I imagine more people would complain if the cities were not in the correct spots.

NemesisChild wrote:2. maybe it's my eyesight or sceren res i'm using but africa looks out of proportion some how, it looks about the right length but seems vey thin, kinda like its slowly melting and slipping towards the bottom of the map
I think your right. Africa could be widened a bit. But it's really no big deal.


mpjh wrote:This map is way too cluttered. The maps are a real distraction -- and the floating city -- what is that, OZ? That a look at the original classic -- the one we cannot use -- no clutter.


Maybe if Sully gets rid of the flags around the borders it will not look so cluttered. It's because of the connecting lines instead of territory borders...

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I think the floating city is very cool - just maybe blend it into the map a little better. either so it's obviously part of the title, or it's blended into the map graphics somehow.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby mpjh on Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:57 am

I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:06 pm

It will be easy to post versions without the flags, especially since I will need to redo them anyway.

I remember when I first created the border there was a lot of initial enthusiasm for it. Then after a couple of days there were some people who felt it cluttered the map too much. I definitely understand the clutter problem, but I also liked the color it added to the map and the sense of unifying countries by having all their flags next to each other. Anyway, I will post versions without the border, which will decrease the height of the map (not increase the space available for play). If there is a large demand to bring the flags back of course that will be considered.

As always, I would like to thank everyone for their input. Constructive criticism will turn this map into something that hopefully everyone can be satisfied with (and dare I say - appreciate?) ;)
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby ender516 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:22 pm

You seem to be getting a lot of flak about the decorative parts of the map, sully800. It's a shame some of these people didn't take more of an interest when it was being developed as World Cities.

So, here's a train of thought I just had: if the title no longer mentions cities, then perhaps the skyline should go. If it goes, then perhaps the title "Classic" (and whatever else this map is eventually called, with perhaps a Conquer Club star in circle logo) could be adjusted to the right to cover all that Asian wasteland. Of course then the Canadian Arctic and Greenland would be exposed, but I think they are more visually interesting (sort of crinkly, thanks to Slartibartfast, I suppose).
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby mibi on Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:44 pm

the title font terribly mismatched with the map.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby RjBeals on Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:59 pm

mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.


God I hate to say it.... but maybe the globe legends might be too much also. A very simple legend may work better.
:oops:
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:04 pm

RjBeals wrote:
mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.


God I hate to say it.... but maybe the globe legends might be too much also. A very simple legend may work better.
:oops:

I have to agree; I love them, but I think that's the source of the cluttered feel. If you look at a physical world map, the open-ness of the ocean(s) is something remarkable and clutter-combatting—the thing the globes do is comparable to placing a couple Australia-size islands smack in the middle of the Indian and Pacific oceans.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Peter Gibbons on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:14 pm

RjBeals wrote:
mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.


God I hate to say it.... but maybe the globe legends might be too much also. A very simple legend may work better.
:oops:

Perhaps the solution is putting the globes in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. Having one in the Atlantic seems to be what really clutters things. I'd rather not see the globes go if they don't have to.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:35 pm

Peter Gibbons wrote:
RjBeals wrote:
mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.


God I hate to say it.... but maybe the globe legends might be too much also. A very simple legend may work better.
:oops:

Perhaps the solution is putting the globes in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. Having one in the Atlantic seems to be what really clutters things. I'd rather not see the globes go if they don't have to.


I did that originally, and it feels way off balance. I didn't like it at all with two globes really off center.

The globes have been one of the most well received points of this map (meaning, more people have complimented them than anything else) and this is the first I've heard of any real criticism. Once again, I understand the fear of having a map that is too cluttered, and that is something I would like to avoid. So while I will consider removing them, I don't think that's the way to go at the moment, unless a lot of other people share this opinion.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby the.killing.44 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:40 pm

sully800 wrote:
Peter Gibbons wrote:
RjBeals wrote:
mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.


God I hate to say it.... but maybe the globe legends might be too much also. A very simple legend may work better.
:oops:

Perhaps the solution is putting the globes in the Pacific and Indian Oceans. Having one in the Atlantic seems to be what really clutters things. I'd rather not see the globes go if they don't have to.


I did that originally, and it feels way off balance. I didn't like it at all with two globes really off center.

The globes have been one of the most well received points of this map (meaning, more people have complimented them than anything else) and this is the first I've heard of any real criticism. Once again, I understand the fear of having a map that is too cluttered, and that is something I would like to avoid. So while I will consider removing them, I don't think that's the way to go at the moment, unless a lot of other people share this opinion.

Can you post a map with those layers hidden, and just a list of the continents in the Pacific? I do like the globes—and as such was one of those who complimented them—but once RJ pointed out that those could be the source of the clutter, I realized it could be best for the map…
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:48 pm

Most certainly can. And I think the globe clutter does stem from the globe in the Atlantic, which has to be very close to connections, labels and land masses. That is one of the unfortunate side effects of the new orientation, and since the globes were designed for the old layout maybe it is true that they no longer fit.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby WidowMakers on Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:53 pm

mibi wrote:the title font terribly mismatched with the map.

I agree. If we need to use the word "CLASSIC" pick a better font that is more fitting.

and

I like the globes. I don't think they look bad.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:20 pm

lackattack wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:I definitely prefer playing shapes to art; why NOT keep all three?


I don't like fracturing identical gameplay over several maps. One reason is that it skews stats and achievement medals. Another reason is that if one version looks much better to most players, is makes sense to concentrate the games on that version.


Based on this comment, the announcement and in-the-map-forum posting that this new cities map that doesn't have the country shapes in the same place as the Risk, Classic Art, or Classic Shapes map so looks totally different (good, but different) but has the same attack patterns and area bonuses, is in error, and this new cities map will replace BOTH shapes and Arts, to appease the "fracturing identical gameplay" difficulty you have?

Or are you saying it's okay to fracture in two but not 3, even if some of the "teaching members" have concerns because Shapes is far easier to explain than where jimboartfan attacks pickanameartist in HolocaustTerrorarea.

(For those who'll say, "none of those names is on the Arts map" yeah, I know, but the names I used make as much sense in gameplay as what is on the Arts map, so the point is valid.)

As for the "looks better to most players" the stats show that Classic Shapes is played more often. Looking at the comments, it's about 50-50 on who prefers what, but that's only a small percentage of the population.

None of this derails Bruceswar's totally valid point about the ease of communicating gameplay and bonuses over the Shapes map. So, really, if you're going to trash only one of the two "Classic" maps, why Shapes?
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Thezzaruz on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:53 pm

MrBenn wrote:Just to clarify, it is only Classic Shapes that is being revamped and replaced. Classic Art will remain alongside the new Classic - at least in the short term.

As expected, sounds good.


mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.

I disagree. I think the flags add a nice graphic touch and IMO they should stay.


RjBeals wrote:
mpjh wrote:I agree that getting rid of the flags would help greatly.

God I hate to say it.... but maybe the globe legends might be too much also. A very simple legend may work better.

Yeez guys, why not just say you want to keep the Classic Shapes map? :mrgreen:

No seriously I like the globes too and I think they work well as as legend (clear, easy to understand and follows the overall theme). But that suggestion to move them a bit might work and possibly make them a bit smaller could be an idea too (could easily make them 10-20% smaller without making them hard to read).


WidowMakers wrote:
mibi wrote:the title font terribly mismatched with the map.

I agree. If we need to use the word "CLASSIC" pick a better font that is more fitting.

Yes the title font is mismatched with the map but that is for wanting to match it with the site logo and hence it's more of a "leave it or scrap it" thing that and "adjust it" thing.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Thezzaruz on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:57 pm

MrBenn wrote:There is a bit of flexibility in relation to the cities names on the map, but the connectivity of them must remain unchanged.

Just to clarify, is it the "connect through paths" part or the actual "who connects with who" part that cannot change???


john9blue wrote:The board game is different than Old Classic (Kamchatka and Mongolia were connected)

Yea I never understood why our Classic map differed from the actual RISK map, just seemed stupid. Do we want the new classic to look like the old or like the RISK board??? (on this map this equates to a Hong Kong -> Seoul connection)


john9blue wrote:which is different than this map (Hong Kong and Mumbai should be connected).

I had a closer look and, compared to the Classic Shapes map, we are missing a Dehli -> Singapore and a Hong Kong -> Tokyo plus we need to take out a Hong Kong -> Singapore and a Shanghai -> Tokyo


Have a few thoughts about the graphics and city names too but those will have to wait until I have gotten some sleep.

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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby magpies on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:11 pm

great job scully this will be a classic again with risk player.i love the map but personally i would like to see border lines instead of connecting lines. globes are a great idea .also would like to see a western state in australia.keep up the great innovative work guys.always improving well done
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:27 pm

magpies wrote:great job scully this will be a classic again with risk player.i love the map but personally i would like to see border lines instead of connecting lines. globes are a great idea .also would like to see a western state in australia.keep up the great innovative work guys.always improving well done


Border lines can't be done since cities occupy finite points on a map. The entire point of this map is that it is world cities, and cities are connected by roads and other direct paths of travel. That is what the lines represent, a way to go from one city to another.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:39 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
lackattack wrote:
sully800 wrote:[*]Adjust the red in the title. I initially liked the light red because it fits well with the pastels of the city line, but a brighter color will go better with the CC logo. Shooting for a middle ground in the next draft.[/list]


Yes, please do what you can to portray that this is the official map of Conquer Club. As well as using something more similiar to the CC logo you can also use our "official" flag icons (I'm sending you a an email now with hi-res flag icons attached) instead of the current flags.

It seems you already are doing this but I'd try to choose cities from the continents of our old Classic whenever possible, to help keep this revamp recognizeable.

Also, I think jiminski has a point about the city line being a bit on the juvenile side. Do you think you can do something more sophisticated? Sorry to be critical, but this is our flagship map and all! ;)



I agree. Africa needs to be shifted as the old Madagascar is now in South Africa. Then the Rest can move around :)



Just wondering your thoughts on this sully..
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:06 pm

Bruceswar wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:
lackattack wrote:
sully800 wrote:[*]Adjust the red in the title. I initially liked the light red because it fits well with the pastels of the city line, but a brighter color will go better with the CC logo. Shooting for a middle ground in the next draft.[/list]


Yes, please do what you can to portray that this is the official map of Conquer Club. As well as using something more similiar to the CC logo you can also use our "official" flag icons (I'm sending you a an email now with hi-res flag icons attached) instead of the current flags.

It seems you already are doing this but I'd try to choose cities from the continents of our old Classic whenever possible, to help keep this revamp recognizeable.

Also, I think jiminski has a point about the city line being a bit on the juvenile side. Do you think you can do something more sophisticated? Sorry to be critical, but this is our flagship map and all! ;)



I agree. Africa needs to be shifted as the old Madagascar is now in South Africa. Then the Rest can move around :)



Just wondering your thoughts on this sully..


I don't think anything needs to be shifted on that regard. There are no major cities in Madagascar or Greenland or many other landmasses which are represented in other maps. This map will connect major cities of the world based on the classic gameplay.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:42 pm

A city does not have to be major to make the map if you ask me just be in the spot of where the old territory once was. Seems only logical it would work that way.
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby sully800 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:52 pm

Bruceswar wrote:A city does not have to be major to make the map if you ask me just be in the spot of where the old territory once was. Seems only logical it would work that way.


This would create a map that is full of places that the players have never heard of, which would make gameplay much more difficult. You were personally complaining that it is much harder to find Novosibirsk than A2 or whatever, and now you are asking to create a map full of these non influential cities? I think that creates a map that is rigidly tied to something that someone else created, and for no real reason.

The largest city in Madagascar is Antananarivo. The largest city in Greenland is Nuuk. Have you heard of these cities before, and would you be able to find them on a map if I didn't just tell you the country of origin? Instead, we can create a map with cities that people actually know. Cities that matter and that players can identify on a map. That way when they select a location from the drop down menu they KNOW where the result will be. So let me say firmly, that I am not going to bind myself to certain cities simply because they are in the same region as the respective territory on a Risk map. ESPECIALLY when that same map is what caused so much trouble in the first place.

Now if it's a toss up between two cities that are recognizable and one corresponds to the classic map, then that would indeed be a logical choice and a good reason to choose one city over another. Get what I'm saying?
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Re: [Official] Classic Revamp

Postby Bruceswar on Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:13 pm

Fair points, but to combat that people will look at Cape down in South Africa and will not realize it was Madagascar on the old classic. They will assume it is South Africa.

Just look at the shambles Germany was made into. So many people who never even post came out of the woodwork to bash the map for changing things around. While the cities may not be as well known I think it only makes to have them in the places they used to be. Otherwise you will be fighting an uphill battle for weeks to months. In fact Germany is still not fixed.
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