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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby jefjef on Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:25 am

Hi all!

2 tert bonuses (naval) seems awfully cheap to get at 2... I'd consider putting them at 3. They are the easiest bonuses on the map. Just too easy. Unless it's your intent to gravitate early & often combat for the Naval bonuses. 2 Just seems to light.

Maybe kick those Russian winter kill terts to 2. Atleast the flank ones.

With the tert sizes of Russia I would consider making it worth 6. A lot of resources to conquer all those terts & lots of border terts to defend almost makes them not worth the expenditure for region bonus.

Have you considered making Orient a stand alone bonus?

Bessarabia misprint shows worth I not a 1.

Maybe add 1 more tert to the France bonus. Split Normandie maybe. Almost worth too much as small as it is.

Is Cyprus and Crete going to be terts? Think I saw someone mention making them a neutral color. Good idea if your not gonna use em.

Caps bonus. I like the 4 in Moscow. It works well with the others.

Thanks for sharing your map idea! Look forward to it.

BTW. Where are the V1 & V2 missle sites? :D
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Raskholnikov on Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:01 am

Jefjef:

2 tert bonuses (naval) seems awfully cheap to get at 2... I'd consider putting them at 3. They are the easiest bonuses on the map. Just too easy. Unless it's your intent to gravitate early & often combat for the Naval bonuses. 2 Just seems to light.

Yes, I would agree to bump them to +3 if Kab agrees (as with all other changes you propose. We always decide together
;) )

Maybe kick those Russian winter kill terts to 2. Atleast the flank ones.

Yes, I agree with this too - but Kab might not, because it would make Russia and its 12 provinces (13 if we were to take provious advice) so much harder to conquer for any player and obtain its bonus.


With the tert sizes of Russia I would consider making it worth 6. A lot of resources to conquer all those terts & lots of border terts to defend almost makes them not worth the expenditure for region bonus.

Exactly. That is why we held it down to 12 provinces and only +1s for the winter regions. Please note Russia has 3 battle sites, within its borders, which would give it an added bonus of +2, and easy access to 2 more, which would give it 1 more bonus. This is why Kab and i did not bump it to +6; otherwise it would risk unbalancing the game.

Have you considered making Orient a stand alone bonus?

Yes. I would entirely agree if Kab would too.

Bessarabia misprint shows worth I not a 1.

Thanks we'll fix it.

Maybe add 1 more tert to the France bonus. Split Normandie maybe. Almost worth too much as small as it is.

France has 6 regions (Corsica included). We gave it a higher bonus to reflect Napoleon's logistical and strategic superiority, and allow it to become the Empire. Remember, France alone went from the professional army to the levee en masse and Grande Armee, which was then imitated by all other powers. But in the beginning he had a great manpower advantage and the bonuses should reflect that.

Is Cyprus and Crete going to be terts? Think I saw someone mention making them a neutral color. Good idea if your not gonna use em.

No they won't be separate, but are part of the Ottoman Empire. Since there are no army display circles or land connections going to them, I don't think that leaving them colored in brown will confuse anyone.

Caps bonus. I like the 4 in Moscow. It works well with the others.

Glad you agree.

Thanks for all the great suggestions. Let's see what Kab thinks ...
;)
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby jefjef on Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:00 pm

I forgot about Corse being part of the France bonus. right on.

If you consider making Orient a stand alone bonus and it causes you to desire another tert for Ottoman Cyprus would be ideal.

Thank you. Lets play!
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:04 am

The Naval bonus do not worth 2 but only 1 for each pair.

As for Russia, the player owning it will make a 5 troop bonus for the zone + 2 troop for the battle site +1 for Moscow (autodeploy), having a total of 8 – the calculator is asking for 8. I could raise the zone to 6, but being the winter regions defended by 1, I think it compensates.

Oops I’ll correct Bessarabia :)

France, the calculator is asking for 6. We’re giving 5 +1 autodeployed... Think we’re good there. And after all France is Napoleon, it has to be a menace :)

Cyprus and Crete are part of the Ottoman Empire though for playability reasons they are only decorative and not playable. There will be no misunderstandings here for there will be no numbers/troops there.

Well we could make some giant ballistas sites aiming at London! :lol:
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:07 am

as for Orient,

... I'd rather not make it a stand alone bonus both for historical coherence and for playability reasons.
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AndrewB on Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:55 pm

Kabanellas wrote:The Naval bonus do not worth 2 but only 1 for each pair.

As for Russia, the player owning it will make a 5 troop bonus for the zone + 2 troop for the battle site +1 for Moscow (autodeploy), having a total of 8 – the calculator is asking for 8. I could raise the zone to 6, but being the winter regions defended by 1, I think it compensates.

Oops I’ll correct Bessarabia :)

France, the calculator is asking for 6. We’re giving 5 +1 autodeployed... Think we’re good there. And after all France is Napoleon, it has to be a menace :)

Cyprus and Crete are part of the Ottoman Empire though for playability reasons they are only decorative and not playable. There will be no misunderstandings here for there will be no numbers/troops there.

Well we could make some giant ballistas sites aiming at London! :lol:


I agree with Kabanellas on this one...
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Raskholnikov on Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:27 pm

That's fine then. Let's leave it as is.
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby sam_levi_11 on Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:39 pm

Id swap the colours of britain and france, because the colours of Benelux and france are similar, as is Denmark and Britain.
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:37 am

I've used the usual colours attributed to each country, either by uniform or by flag. That way - France is blue, England is red.
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:03 am

Small version done.... one of the hardest to do :x

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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Raskholnikov on Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:23 pm

Wow! Simply amazing work! Congrats for making it and thank you so much for the hard work!
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:52 am

Thanks!! I'll have to work more on it though...
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AndrewB on Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:17 pm

Re: Corse* can one way assault Aboukir.

Where is Aboukir?
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby danryan on Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:34 pm

Aboukir Bay, location of Nelson's destruction of Napoleon's fleet, is in Egypt. The battle was known as the Battle of the Nile.

This is the most excited I've been about a map in a long time. Beautiful artwork so far.
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:39 am

Thanks Dan!

Andrew, Aboukir is glowing over the battle site.
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AndrewB on Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:13 pm

Sooo, word "Aboukir" there is part of the legend text, as well as the territory label in the same time?

Very confusing :S
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Raskholnikov on Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:11 pm

Aboukir is the label for that Naval Battle, yes. And you are right, it is also part of the text. Space constraints.... ;(
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AndrewB on Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:58 am

I guess.

If possible I'd rather put the text, explaining of one way attack next to Corsica. Or maybe even in the main legend?
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:14 pm

humm, I'm quite sure that kind of situation happens in some other maps as well..... I like it as it is to be honest. The same is happening in Gibraltar....
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AndrewB on Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:57 pm

I can bet that 90% of the people after playing this map 10 times would not know about that one way attack from Corse...

And at least Gibraltar text is attached to the attacking country.

Corse on the other hand, has an asterisk, which u need to find first...

And everyone knows where Gibraltar is, so they can check their assumption about the attack.

On the other hand, not many people know about Aboukir...

If the real estate is the problem to put the text next to the Corse, then maybe you can move this one way attack from Corse to another country?
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Kabanellas on Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:26 pm

well, that one way assault from Corse is a conceptual/historical thing that Rask can explain better than me :oops:
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AlaricusTheGreat on Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:57 pm

WOW! :o This map looks amazing. Great idea for a map, cant wait until i can play this map
ALARICUS: meaning "all-powerful; ruler of all." Latin name composed of the Germanic elements ala "all" and ric "power; rule," hence "all-powerful; ruler of all."
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Raskholnikov on Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:48 pm

In brief, Napoleon (in his 1798 Bonaparte incarnation) broke the siege of Toulon by the Brits and sailed by Corsica all the way to Egypt to destroy the British positions there. He almost did it ( he won the battle of the Pyramids) except that the best of the French fleet got caugght and slaughtered by Nelson at Aboukir (which some historians argue that it ranks evena above Trafalgar in terms of its consequences).

In terms opf game=play, we need to connect France directly to Egypt by sea both to bring the Orient and Turkey into play, and to respect historical events. The Brits have their own route to Aboukir from Gibraltar via Malta, and the French need a separate one to actually be abke to get there without passing though Malta. So, we need this route, and Corse is the only French territory we can run it from (Provence is even more busy with the Battle of Toulon facing it).

I am sure people who play this map will get used to it; our game-rules are nowqhere near as numerous or complicated as others, and i think it is quite clear that Aboukir is the actual sea battle represented below it. It's not perfect, I know, but unless you can suggest a more logical place to place that text, I don't think there's much we can do about it.... Thanks....
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby AndrewB on Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:04 am

Hm, that is what i thought...

i guess we would have to leave with it for now. No other solution comes into my mind right now...
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Re: Napoleonic Europe 1812 (an original idea from Raskholnikov)

Postby Raskholnikov on Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:50 pm

Any further comments and ideas on how we can improve the map or can we move this thread to the Main Foundry??
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