Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Suggestions that have made it through the grind, and have become integrated into the site!

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:45 pm

chap's on point, but then there should probably be a rule in place in the clans world about what happens if your team doesn't join within two weeks. What happens if both clans don't join? We should either shore that up, or extend the timeout limit.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby chapcrap on Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:57 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:chap's on point, but then there should probably be a rule in place in the clans world about what happens if your team doesn't join within two weeks. What happens if both clans don't join? We should either shore that up, or extend the timeout limit.

I think that is something for clans to consider themselves, as a policy standpoint. Typically, each event has been subject to it's own rules and deadlines. That said, I've never had an opponent take two weeks to join games. I think this topic was likely spurred by the OP creating games much earlier than was required.
Image
User avatar
Major chapcrap
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 9575
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:46 am
Location: Kansas City
Medals: 167
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (31)
General Achievement (16) Clan Achievement (16) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (34)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby kmhebert on Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:53 pm

Heh just to be a bug about this, I will ask, is having games around a bit longer a real real problem, or a fake real problem? I get that people should join games fast and not send out invites that won't get joined up on, 100%. I definitely agree on that part of it. I am just saying, if/when it doesn't work that way, it's a pain to recreate games. And, I just can't get behind the idea that there is a drive space, database resource, or other technical problem created by extending for a couple weeks.

Heh maybe this problem is related to my specific circumstance with this particular war; it never happened to me before and most likely won't again. BUT it was enough of a pain in the ass that I thought a good solution would be to just extend the deadline. HA from now on I guess I'll just include a forfeit rule in my clans wars. "If one clan creates games for a round and the other clan fails to join them before they are automatically deleted by the system, those games are forfeit such that the clan that failed to join will lose all those games". Heh maybe I even like that solution better!

But I still will say I can't get behind the idea that extending the deadline is a "real real" problem!
Image
User avatar
Captain kmhebert
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: Brimfield Massachusetts USA
Medals: 69
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (17)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:27 pm

No one is really arguing that there's a substantive reason against having a slightly longer limit. We're arguing that the cost of expending developer time on this change is probably not worth it, given the pretty minor (and likely fixable, given the clan rule discussion) benefit.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby chapcrap on Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:38 pm

I'm not sure if it's real real or fake real as far as server space and that stuff goes. I really couldn't tell you. But, in my opinion, there does need to be some kind of deadline for this and I see no reason to extend it. Reasons already stated.
Image
User avatar
Major chapcrap
Tournament Director
Tournament Director
 
Posts: 9575
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:46 am
Location: Kansas City
Medals: 167
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (31)
General Achievement (16) Clan Achievement (16) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (34)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby kmhebert on Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:46 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:No one is really arguing that there's a substantive reason against having a slightly longer limit. We're arguing that the cost of expending developer time on this change is probably not worth it, given the pretty minor (and likely fixable, given the clan rule discussion) benefit.


I'll pay the forty cents to change the number 14 to 35!!! Heh I am not super heated about this, I think it would be slightly better for all concerned especially clan war / tournament organizers, but honestly the technical arguments have been pretty weak.

chapcrap wrote: I think this topic was likely spurred by the OP creating games much earlier than was required.


And this one is just 100% incorrect, as I said it was due to real life issues which can happen to anyone at any time.

chapcrap wrote:But, in my opinion, there does need to be some kind of deadline for this and I see no reason to extend it. Reasons already stated.


It would have been nice in the circumstance of me re-creating all these games; each time that happens is a good reason to extend it. BUT this is clearly not going to happen, I am just going to include the join requirement in my war terms from this point forward.
Image
User avatar
Captain kmhebert
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: Brimfield Massachusetts USA
Medals: 69
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (17)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:13 pm

kmhebert wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:No one is really arguing that there's a substantive reason against having a slightly longer limit. We're arguing that the cost of expending developer time on this change is probably not worth it, given the pretty minor (and likely fixable, given the clan rule discussion) benefit.


I'll pay the forty cents to change the number 14 to 35!!! Heh I am not super heated about this, I think it would be slightly better for all concerned especially clan war / tournament organizers, but honestly the technical arguments have been pretty weak.


It is not simply a matter of changing the default time-out length, because you are asking for it to be different for clan games than for other games.
User avatar
Lieutenant Metsfanmax
Head Thinker
Head Thinker
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (2)
General Contribution (5)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby kmhebert on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:39 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:It is not simply a matter of changing the default time-out length, because you are asking for it to be different for clan games than for other games.


That's fair, still think it would be easy enough but again it's not going to make me like quit Conquer Club, I understand it's not important enough to everyone to do it.
Image
User avatar
Captain kmhebert
 
Posts: 429
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:13 pm
Location: Brimfield Massachusetts USA
Medals: 69
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (2)
Clan Achievement (17)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby kennys777 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:00 am

I was linked here by Icepack, but I am running a tournament consisting of 219 maps, currently in round 2, and 4 groups of 6 players.

So there were 280 maps created, and 1680 invites needed to start round 2. My co-contributor made the games early so we could be ready to move on, but some players were dragging out round 1 games making it impossible to mathematically eliminate the low 8 players. Anyway, Hopalong invited group 1 which is 420 invites. I had gotten through 140 invites, and then next morning...POOF!

272 out of the 280 disappeared because the players had not all joined. Even though some joined...I agree with this idea, and if it can't go to this extreme, at least an invite should extend the life of a game not yet active?

Or if a player has joined and is awaiting others to accept their invites, the game should not be auto-deleted.
kizkiz was invited to all his 70 games, and he accepted them all, but because I couldn't get through all the invites (took me 20 minutes per player), all the games he joined (less 2) were deleted.

For the record let me say that the 8 games that survived were created later because we realized we missed those on our list. Anyway, I totally agree that tournament and clan war games should be excluded from this 15 day rule, or at least give us 6 weeks or 8 weeks.

An extension would have been fine for us, because we got delayed waiting for active games to finish and being unable to start inviting for round 2...I am a person who is organized, and the 15 day rule is a rush causing people like me to rush through things, which create mistakes long term!!!!


imho
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class kennys777
 
Posts: 845
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:27 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Medals: 55
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (5) Tournament Contribution (4)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby hopalong on Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:12 am

kennys777 wrote:I was linked here by Icepack, but I am running a tournament consisting of 219 maps, currently in round 2, and 4 groups of 6 players.

So there were 280 maps created, and 1680 invites needed to start round 2. My co-contributor made the games early so we could be ready to move on, but some players were dragging out round 1 games making it impossible to mathematically eliminate the low 8 players. Anyway, Hopalong invited group 1 which is 420 invites. I had gotten through 140 invites, and then next morning...POOF!

272 out of the 280 disappeared because the players had not all joined. Even though some joined...I agree with this idea, and if it can't go to this extreme, at least an invite should extend the life of a game not yet active?

Or if a player has joined and is awaiting others to accept their invites, the game should not be auto-deleted.
kizkiz was invited to all his 70 games, and he accepted them all, but because I couldn't get through all the invites (took me 20 minutes per player), all the games he joined (less 2) were deleted.

For the record let me say that the 8 games that survived were created later because we realized we missed those on our list. Anyway, I totally agree that tournament and clan war games should be excluded from this 15 day rule, or at least give us 6 weeks or 8 weeks.

An extension would have been fine for us, because we got delayed waiting for active games to finish and being unable to start inviting for round 2...I am a person who is organized, and the 15 day rule is a rush causing people like me to rush through things, which create mistakes long term!!!!


imho


+1
Image
Major hopalong
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:15 am
Location: not sure ... but it feels kindof good.
Medals: 40
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (2)
Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby JamesKer1 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:05 pm

Only because of Kenny's circumstance do I finally agree with this. The tournament he was talking about, which I participated in, is incredible- I'm amazed at how he or he and another person can do that much and stay on top of it so well.

For tournaments and clans there needs to be an extension. Or no limit, and someone could clean it out every month, but there would need to be a time stamp of some sort by the game. That might be a little bit of work, so maybe just a 30-60 day limit.

I'm not really seeing the bandwidth argument- the tournament and clan games tabs have a lot less than public, so extending it by a few weeks isn't that much different than an increase in games being created. Besides, What's the difference if most of these games get reopened anyways? Isn't that creating more bandwidth issues by storing data of some sort for the deleted game?
User avatar
Cook JamesKer1
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:47 am
Medals: 28
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby blakebowling on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:07 pm

I'd like to weigh in from the technical standpoint.

Private games are currently deleted after 15 days to prevent a pileup of private games. It's not specifically the load on the database that's the issue, but having a lot of private games that aren't going to fill (if you can't fill a private game in 15 days, you probably won't fill it).
Changing the limit for tournament games isn't a large task by any means and I wouldn't mind it being doubled to 30 days. I'm not sure why 6-8 weeks would be needed, as I've never made tournament games that far in advance for any of my tournaments.
12:39:59 AM rdsrds2120: sorry, I had a lot of lasagna tonight
12:40:06 AM rdsrds2120: I'm pretty out of it. CRAAZZYYY NIGHT
12:31:04 * Metsfanmax quit (kicked from Social by Metsfanmax - reason: haha gotcha now)
12:59:32 * #1_stunna gropes blakebowling
Cadet blakebowling
Operations Manager
Operations Manager
 
Posts: 4997
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:09 pm
Location: 127.0.0.1
Medals: 41
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (3)
Tournament Contribution (3) General Contribution (10)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby JamesKer1 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:13 pm

Glad to hear it Blake! 30 sounds reasonable to me.
User avatar
Cook JamesKer1
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:47 am
Medals: 28
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (1)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby kizkiz on Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:17 pm

To be fair, kennys tournament is aboutas extreme as you'll ever get, work load wise, so not a situation that is going to occur that often.
however, if not a very hard fix, tourney games getting a bit longer really helps.
I've only run 2 tourneys, but one was quite complicated, and i found it very useful to create games well in advance. I can only imagine someone busier than me doing it over a longer period to make it possible for them to run it
Major kizkiz
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:28 pm
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (7)
Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2)

Re: Don't Automatically Delete Clan War / Tournament Games

Postby stuboy on Thu Oct 24, 2013 3:19 pm

kizkiz wrote:To be fair, kennys tournament is aboutas extreme as you'll ever get, work load wise, so not a situation that is going to occur that often.
however, if not a very hard fix, tourney games getting a bit longer really helps.


+1 to this.

I think Kenny's tournament is extreme but when attempting to create 70 different maps, across 4 groups, for 6 players per game (was more in the first round) it just seems bonkers that games can vanish after just 15 days.

I appreciate this won't be an IT priority but considering the small amount of time it would take to implement the change, I'd hope it be something we could see happen fairly soon.
Lieutenant stuboy
 
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:57 am
Medals: 47
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (8) General Achievement (2) Clan Achievement (7)

PreviousNext

Return to Implemented Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login