Conquer Club

natty dread wrote:

agentcom wrote:In the case of how colors are seen, perception really is reality.

Actually, it's still perception.

There are plenty of colourblind people who can't tell lots of those colours apart. Should we figure out a way to make all the colours distinguishable for them - oh wait...

"Perception is reality" is a saying. For those who are colorblind, there are color codes. For many colorblind people it may be impossible to make 6 or 8 distinguishable colors.

But that you and some others continue to ignore my main point. The problem is that there is not enough contrast between the chosen color and the outline. Your suggestion to lighten up blue would work to make the numbers visible on all maps because the color would have enough contrast to its outline. However, by keeping the black outline, you limit yourself to the lighter shades of the color palette. Virtually by definition light blue will appear close to cyan if you do that. Perhaps not indistinguishably close to some. But closer than it has to be if you just used a white outline for dark colors, particularly blue.

A few years back there was a committee that had tried numerous different colors on the maps trying to figure out the best color combos when adding player 7 and player 8. A lot of time and discussion was put into it. In the end there will always be someone who doesn't agree.

This should be merged with the other thread. (I'm not looking through old posts to find the link, sorry).

no matter the color there will always be issues.

but if you go making a lighter blue then you'll start having trouble on maps with a lighter blue background.

i have to say we need to keep things the way they are. i'm hoping that this suggestion will go under the rug like every other one, but figured i better voice my opinion just in case it matters. i don't want to have to re-learn how to look at these maps.

A lighter blue background won't make a lighter blue number disappear, since every number is outlined in black. The problem arises when a dark colour like blue is outlined in black on a dark background: not enough contrast. I have a script to help with this problem, which I hope to release this week. If the OP of this topic doesn't mind, I will post a link when the script is available. What do you say, natty?

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:but if you go making a lighter blue then you'll start having trouble on maps with a lighter blue background.

Eh... try thinking about that a second time.

ender516 wrote: If the OP of this topic doesn't mind, I will post a link when the script is available. What do you say, natty?

fine by me

natty dread wrote:

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:but if you go making a lighter blue then you'll start having trouble on maps with a lighter blue background.

Eh... try thinking about that a second time.

ender516 wrote:A lighter blue background won't make a lighter blue number disappear, since every number is outlined in black.

well, my points may be invalid then, i didn't notice the black outlines.

i'm colorblind, so i don't think theres any hope for me.

right now, to me, the cyan looks the same color as neutral, which is aggravating in itself.
the pink looks like blue
the yellow and orange can be tricky on certain maps
the red is very hard to see on many maps. mainly the dark colored maps

i was just venting because now when ya'll change this i'm going to get all screwed up and have to relearn these new colors on certain maps that i may not have had trouble with before.

i do use the colorcodes but some colors seem to just hide on certain maps. i'm just bitching about it is all. i know ya'll do what you can with what you got, but sometimes i think everyone just wakes up and says "hey, what can i change today that dont' really make a sh#t". i've been doing fine with the normal blue forever. that one is probably my best color. that or yellow. now it's on the chopping block

just please don't make the green any brighter or it will start looking yellow. promise me that ok?

Use colour codes.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:i do use the colorcodes but some colors seem to just hide on certain maps.

natty dread wrote:Use colour codes.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:right now, to me, the cyan looks the same color as neutral

natty dread wrote:Use colour codes.

natty dread wrote:

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:right now, to me, the cyan looks the same color as neutral

natty dread wrote:Use colour codes.

chapcrap wrote:

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:i do use the colorcodes but some colors seem to just hide on certain maps.

natty dread wrote:Use colour codes.

please don't change blue to lighter. i know you just get bored with things the way they are. but it's not going to bring any more people to cc. and while i can never be sure, i bet no one will say "damn blue's just too dark. this site stinks"

i know you're a great mapmaker and all, and really take pride in your mapmaking. but is this really that important?

i see the blue fine the way it is. i'm sure you do too.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:please don't change blue to lighter. i know you just get bored with things the way they are.

Wow, no offense but you're acting like an asshole. What's up with the condescending attitude there? Just because you don't understand the reason for a proposed change doesn't mean that it's only proposed because someone is "bored".

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:it's not going to bring any more people to cc.

Yeah, and I don't really care about bringing more people to CC. CC should concentrate on keeping the existing customers satisfied before trying to gather new ones. That's just good business sense.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:i see the blue fine the way it is. i'm sure you do too.

You know, it's the go-to explanation of the small-minded person to assume that anyone whose opinions he disagrees with or doesn't understand, doesn't really believe their views, but is just voicing them out of spite or boredom... that's also why you see idiots all over the forums instantly jumping to accuse people of "trolling" whenever they disagree about someone's posts.

Anyway, maybe you should come back when you've read the OP of this thread and actually understand what this suggestion is about. Just saying...

natty dread wrote:

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:please don't change blue to lighter. i know you just get bored with things the way they are.

Wow, no offense but you're acting like an asshole. What's up with the condescending attitude there? Just because you don't understand the reason for a proposed change doesn't mean that it's only proposed because someone is "bored".

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:it's not going to bring any more people to cc.

Yeah, and I don't really care about bringing more people to CC. CC should concentrate on keeping the existing customers satisfied before trying to gather new ones. That's just good business sense.

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:i see the blue fine the way it is. i'm sure you do too.

You know, it's the go-to explanation of the small-minded person to assume that anyone whose opinions he disagrees with or doesn't understand, doesn't really believe their views, but is just voicing them out of spite or boredom... that's also why you see idiots all over the forums instantly jumping to accuse people of "trolling" whenever they disagree about someone's posts.

Anyway, maybe you should come back when you've read the OP of this thread and actually understand what this suggestion is about. Just saying...

yeah, you're right. and so smart too. do whatever floats your boat. the simple minded don't really care anyway.

This suggestion is stickied for some reason even though it doesn't appear to be going anywhere. There's enough people saying "please don't do this" that I think it shouldn't be implemented. I pointed out before that having a vote that doesn't include the alternative or "Leave it as it is" deprives the voting that occurred of much meaning.

I also reiterate my point that the problem with the blue numbers is not the color of the territory but by the lack of contrast in it's outline. This problem is unique to, or at least most noticeable with, the blue armies.

So, I'm not really sure why this suggestion is still stickied. Maybe it would deserve the sticky if the OP would restart the poll to one that says: Which of these 4 options would you approve of for the color blue?

(1) This [In the current blue color with black outline]
(2) This [New blue, black outline]
(3) This [New blue 2, black outline]
(4) This [Current blue, white outline]

Check all that apply.

agentcom wrote:This suggestion is stickied for some reason even though it doesn't appear to be going anywhere. There's enough people saying "please don't do this" that I think it shouldn't be implemented. I pointed out before that having a vote that doesn't include the alternative or "Leave it as it is" deprives the voting that occurred of much meaning.

Not really, before I stickied this, there was all sorts of support, but as soon as I Sticky'd it and added a poll, people came in here saying to leave it as it is. A few users have even contradicted each other in posts, saying "yes, change it" earlier in the thread, to "no, leave it". Since I stickied it back in August, 5 users have said no, and 1 of them said yes earlier in the thread. So you are saying, if something like, oh, Adjacent Attacks had 5 users say no, I should throw it in Rejected? There has been plenty of users that have posted, and more of them have said Yes to it, then no.

TheForgivenOne wrote:

agentcom wrote:This suggestion is stickied for some reason even though it doesn't appear to be going anywhere. There's enough people saying "please don't do this" that I think it shouldn't be implemented. I pointed out before that having a vote that doesn't include the alternative or "Leave it as it is" deprives the voting that occurred of much meaning.

Not really, before I stickied this, there was all sorts of support, but as soon as I Sticky'd it and added a poll, people came in here saying to leave it as it is. A few users have even contradicted each other in posts, saying "yes, change it" earlier in the thread, to "no, leave it". Since I stickied it back in August, 5 users have said no, and 1 of them said yes earlier in the thread. So you are saying, if something like, oh, Adjacent Attacks had 5 users say no, I should throw it in Rejected? There has been plenty of users that have posted, and more of them have said Yes to it, then no.

When did I ever say "throw it in rejected"? I said unsticky it and/or change the poll to something meaningful.

Jippd wrote:I find no problem with blue. Looked up ancient greece maps and can see blue clear as day (I use color codes). So I see no confusion with color codes on. Checked conquer man as well.

I think there are better suggestions that deserve the extremely limited time CC has. IMO.

So maybe give another map as an example, but I have no problem seeing blue or any other colors with color codes on.

+1

Something needs to be done with the colors of player armies. For instance, the blue and green used are too close in the color spectrum. Maybe consider using more fluorescent colors? Although still confusing, it isn't a huge problem (for me) on less complicated maps...but on the more complicated and detailed maps it is a big problem.

Ahhh...sorry...I just checked out the color code option. That helps tremendously...thanks.

messenger wrote:Something needs to be done with the colors of player armies. For instance, the blue and green used are too close in the color spectrum. Maybe consider using more fluorescent colors? Although still confusing, it isn't a huge problem (for me) on less complicated maps...but on the more complicated and detailed maps it is a big problem.

This is a separate problem. The issue being discussed here is that blue does not show up well on dark colored maps. However, your suggestion to change to more fluorescent colors is one of the suggestions. However, I believe (and have said quite a few times) that changing blue to a brighter shade will make it look more like cyan thus changing one set of confusing colors for another.

But changing the blue army outline to white, I believe, might also help your problem, as it would be another way of distinguishing blue from green. The real problem with blue armies on dark maps is that the map coloration and the blue army color are too dark thus leaving too little contrast between those colors and the black outline.

Having good contrast between outline colors and army colors is the reason why this is not a problem with, say, the yellow armies and any yellow regions on the maps.

For some reason, every time that I have pointed this out, I am not getting any response (positive or negative) to the idea of changing the outline color. I guess that I'll just keep saying it though hoping someday reason will prevail

The age of reason has begun, agentcom. I have released my script Conquer Club Contrast Corrector (C4) which adds an additional white outline around the existing black one.

The forum topic is here under Available Tools/Enhancements: viewtopic.php?f=527&t=169933#p3712010

and if you just cannot spare the clicks, the script is here:
https://github.com/sherkaner/addons-for-Conquerclub/raw/master/Conquer_Club_Contrast_Corrector_(C4).user.js

ender516 wrote:The age of reason has begun, agentcom.

LOL.

This topic has frustrated me since I noticed that it was stickied. My perspective on all suggestions is to weigh the benefits of the suggestion against how hard they are to implement. Thus, if a suggestion wouldn't add much to the site and take a hell of a lot of effort, we should reject it. If it would add a great deal to the site, and is easy to implement, it should be put in place. Somewhere between those extremes lay things like outlining the blue numbers with white. It doesn't add a whole lot to the site for people who don't have a problem seeing the blue numbers on dark maps. But it would obviously help in some situations, and it seemed like a pretty easy fix, so why not? Now Ender has gone and shown what an easy fix it is. Thank you, Ender.

All that said, I would much prefer to see this implemented by the site rather than have to have an add-on just for the purpose of outlining colors.

Of course, the bigger reason for my frustration has been that the initial suggestion was NOT the best way of fixing the perceived "problem." The only reason that I started contributing to this thread was to beg and plead for them NOT to implement the suggestion as it had been proposed. But I've gone on about that topic in other places.

Agentcom, you have much to learn about CC.

These suggestions basically don't matter anything. Even if this suggestion gets "approved" or "accepted" or whatever, what that means is only that it is moved to an even more obscure forum where even less people visit, to gather dust for a couple of years, until maybe some day lackattack will decide to either implement it or not to implement it. That's why these suggestions are called "suggestions", they are only suggestions for the admins for what features users want, and more often than not, nothing is ever going to become of most of them regardless of their support.

So you can relax, there's no need to be all up in arms in the suggestion threads yelling "this suggestion is WRONG!" because it's not like it affects anything anyway.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, natty, but I am wondering if you have tried my script.

ender516 wrote:I'm not trying to hijack this thread, natty, but I am wondering if you have tried my script.

Nope, I don't have greasemonkey installed yet... I'll get around to it when I stop being lazy