[GP] Increase to 12 Players

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What should the final proposal be?

Up the number of players to 9, and see how it goes from there.
29
8%
Up the number of players to 10, and see how it goes from there.
47
14%
Up the number of players straight to 12.
193
55%
I don't mind, as long as the number goes up.
19
5%
Keep the number of players at 8.
57
16%
Other, stated in thread.
3
1%
 
Total votes : 348

Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby FireStar on Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 pm

lancehoch wrote:
happy2seeyou wrote:We had a hard time just trying to add player 7 and 8's colors... I can't even imagine the complaints that would come around with 10 player colors in a game. What happens if we were to have 9-10 player games, a few weeks later someone will suggest 11-12 player games... It will never end.

vote: no

I think 10 would be the limit since there are no team possibilities with 11 players. The colors do seem to be a limiting factor. There is not enough of a difference between any of the color representations (I think I posted a bunch of colors earlier in this thread).


aside from the colors, which would be hard to come up with, maybe it could be set up so that these larger games could only be team games...
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby Joodoo on Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:20 am

lancehoch wrote:
Joodoo wrote:UPDATE :D
Since it would be pointless to have game with a large amount of players in a small map (even for battle royales...I think), I'm suggesting that if this was to be implemented, restrictions should be placed when you start a game. The restriction will depend on the number of territories on that map...
After finding out that the classic map has 42 territories in total and in a 8 player game, each player would start with 5 territories and there are 2 neutrals left, I have decided to base my ideas on the classic map. The formula for the restriction should be x*5+2, with x being the number of players in that game.
In this case, a map needs at least 47 (9*5+2=47)territories in order to be played by 9 players. A map needs at least 52(10*5+2 territories in order to be played by 10 players. However, restrictions will be lifted for some "special" maps where players start with a home territory (ex.New World and City Mogul).

So, would you limit Luxembourg and Doodle Earth to only 3 players since they both have 18 territories?


no, the formula only applies to these cases, if maps with little territories such as Doodle Earth or Luxembourg are to be included, then the game will depend even more on luck, they'll also be much more complaints from joining/starting 9/10 player games on Doodle (and other small maps) because it'll be much more dependent on who goes first...
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby lancehoch on Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:10 am

Joodoo wrote:
lancehoch wrote:no, the formula only applies to these cases, if maps with little territories such as Doodle Earth or Luxembourg are to be included, then the game will depend even more on luck, they'll also be much more complaints from joining/starting 9/10 player games on Doodle (and other small maps) because it'll be much more dependent on who goes first...

This post actually confused me more.
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby Barry Zuckerkorn on Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:04 pm

colors shouldn't be a factor as we could always branch into a multiple color system for the 9th and 10th players. What about a white circle background with red numbers in the middle, or yellow background with blue numbers, ect...it would slightly change the uniformity of the current game play -- but there are thousands of different ways to create unique color codes for extra players.
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby GrimReaper. on Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:10 pm

i say do it
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby lancehoch on Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:20 pm

Barry Zuckerkorn wrote:colors shouldn't be a factor as we could always branch into a multiple color system for the 9th and 10th players. What about a white circle background with red numbers in the middle, or yellow background with blue numbers, ect...it would slightly change the uniformity of the current game play -- but there are thousands of different ways to create unique color codes for extra players.

The thing about this is, the army circles are made by the mapmaker to fit with the colors of the map. Changing these would be a huge pain. The colors are a limiting factor.
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby Barry Zuckerkorn on Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:29 pm

lancehoch wrote:
Barry Zuckerkorn wrote:colors shouldn't be a factor as we could always branch into a multiple color system for the 9th and 10th players. What about a white circle background with red numbers in the middle, or yellow background with blue numbers, ect...it would slightly change the uniformity of the current game play -- but there are thousands of different ways to create unique color codes for extra players.

The thing about this is, the army circles are made by the mapmaker to fit with the colors of the map. Changing these would be a huge pain. The colors are a limiting factor.


What about thicker numbers that have an outline. Say blue outlining white, red outlining green.
What about small lines of the same color that make a box around numbers. Say yellow inside a yellow box, blue inside a blue box.
These are just a few ideas -- but my point is that if we really wanted this to happen we could find a way to make it happen.
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby lancehoch on Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:58 pm

Barry Zuckerkorn wrote:What about thicker numbers that have an outline. Say blue outlining white, red outlining green.
What about small lines of the same color that make a box around numbers. Say yellow inside a yellow box, blue inside a blue box.
These are just a few ideas -- but my point is that if we really wanted this to happen we could find a way to make it happen.

I take it that you are not colorblind (I am not either), but any red/green combination will not work. It would need to be colors that are distinct enough that people would not have a hard time telling them apart.
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby OliverFA on Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:47 pm

Joodoo wrote:
lancehoch wrote:
Joodoo wrote:UPDATE :D
Since it would be pointless to have game with a large amount of players in a small map (even for battle royales...I think), I'm suggesting that if this was to be implemented, restrictions should be placed when you start a game. The restriction will depend on the number of territories on that map...
After finding out that the classic map has 42 territories in total and in a 8 player game, each player would start with 5 territories and there are 2 neutrals left, I have decided to base my ideas on the classic map. The formula for the restriction should be x*5+2, with x being the number of players in that game.
In this case, a map needs at least 47 (9*5+2=47)territories in order to be played by 9 players. A map needs at least 52(10*5+2 territories in order to be played by 10 players. However, restrictions will be lifted for some "special" maps where players start with a home territory (ex.New World and City Mogul).

So, would you limit Luxembourg and Doodle Earth to only 3 players since they both have 18 territories?


no, the formula only applies to these cases, if maps with little territories such as Doodle Earth or Luxembourg are to be included, then the game will depend even more on luck, they'll also be much more complaints from joining/starting 9/10 player games on Doodle (and other small maps) because it'll be much more dependent on who goes first...


IMHO, anything more than 6 players for Doodle Earth and Luxembourg are too much. After losing a couple of games without even having a chance to get a first turn I learned to stay away from that Russian roulette. So if you ask me yes, I would limit 18 territories maps to 6 players.

My proposed formula would be x*3.
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Re: 9 and 10 player games

Postby OliverFA on Fri Feb 27, 2009 3:49 pm

Barry Zuckerkorn wrote:
lancehoch wrote:
Barry Zuckerkorn wrote:colors shouldn't be a factor as we could always branch into a multiple color system for the 9th and 10th players. What about a white circle background with red numbers in the middle, or yellow background with blue numbers, ect...it would slightly change the uniformity of the current game play -- but there are thousands of different ways to create unique color codes for extra players.

The thing about this is, the army circles are made by the mapmaker to fit with the colors of the map. Changing these would be a huge pain. The colors are a limiting factor.


What about thicker numbers that have an outline. Say blue outlining white, red outlining green.
What about small lines of the same color that make a box around numbers. Say yellow inside a yellow box, blue inside a blue box.
These are just a few ideas -- but my point is that if we really wanted this to happen we could find a way to make it happen.


I agree. If we wanted it to happen we could find some system to differentiate players. Maybe it would be based on colours, or maybe it would be based on a different idea.

Like i.e., we could prefix each player with a letter like in the colour blind option.
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12 player games

Postby khazalid on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:59 am

Specifics:

i'd really like to see 12p games coded soon. with stuff like conquerhex and all the other big maps in the foundry atm it would be great to play 3 quad teams or 4 trips teams on some of those.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

it just seems a natural progression as map size seems to be going mainly in one direction
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Re: 12 player games

Postby Kotaro on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:01 am

Find 12 different colors that don't look anything alike, and lack'll do it.
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Re: 12 player games

Postby pmchugh on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:12 am

Kotaro wrote:Find 12 different colors that don't look anything alike, and lack'll do it.


Black, Brown, Purple, Mustard?

Pretty hard actually but it would be a good edition if possible, 6v6 would be intresting.
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Re: 12 player games

Postby Kotaro on Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:28 am

Puple would look too much like Pink, gold too much like yellow... Theres been a lot of this discussion.
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Re: 12 player games

Postby ubersky on Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:26 pm

The only colors I can think of that haven't been used are White, Light Green, and maybe Light Urple.

Assuming we have to keep Black for Neuts.

Only other option would be to start talking about non-color based territ ownership tracking
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Re: 12 player games

Postby wolfpack0530 on Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:48 pm

There is an option called 'add color codes' which helps differentiate the colors on the maps. We would just need 12 colors that dont start with the same letter.

So many people have different variations of colorblindness, that it will be impossible to have 12 colors where a couple of them dont look too similar.

For me, I actually have a real hard time telling apart red & green, and cyan & pink. I could not play this game without the colorcodes.

Also, i fully 100% support the idea of 12 player games.
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Re: 12 player games

Postby sailorc on Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:23 pm

I also like this idea. Large games like this would be fun. BTW,
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Re: 12 player games

Postby soundman on Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:58 pm

I like the suggestion, but the only other color I can think of that can be used is Black...
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Re: 12 player games

Postby Thezzaruz on Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:54 am

Kotaro wrote:Find 12 different colors that don't look anything alike, and lack'll do it.


The current 8 colours don't do that so why should it be an issue?
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Re: 12 player games

Postby Tupence on Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:42 am

Thezzaruz wrote:
Kotaro wrote:Find 12 different colors that don't look anything alike, and lack'll do it.


The current 8 colours don't do that so why should it be an issue?

True, the orange and yellow are really similar
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Re: 12 player games

Postby 40kguy on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:53 am

ubersky wrote:The only colors I can think of that haven't been used are White, Light Green, and maybe Light Urple.

Assuming we have to keep Black for Neuts.

Only other option would be to start talking about non-color based territ ownership tracking

white wouldent work that is the coulor of neutrals
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Re: 12 player games

Postby Rustovitch on Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:45 am

I currently struggle to tell the dark green and grey apart.
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Re: 12 player games

Postby squishyg on Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:40 pm

pmchugh wrote:
Kotaro wrote:Find 12 different colors that don't look anything alike, and lack'll do it.


Black, Brown, Purple, Mustard?

Pretty hard actually but it would be a good edition if possible, 6v6 would be intresting.


Mustard is a highly controversial color. Let's say someone plays as Mustard and they lose. A small, yet committed group of players might be compelled to spend hours analyzing the game and why Mustard lost. There could potentially be polls, petitions, and a slew of PMs reaching as far as Texas and China regarding this travesty. Management would be dismayed by all the hubbub and their nervous amusement would quickly turn to consternation. Soon, allies would become enemies and lines would be drawn not in sand, but in cement. Really thick, high-quality cement.

So you can see that there's no point in talking about it any longer.
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Re: 12 player games

Postby khazalid on Sat Sep 12, 2009 4:11 pm

so in order for it to work, colourblind codes would have to be auto-attached to to anything with 10+ players or so?
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Re: 12 player games

Postby sully800 on Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:32 pm

Thezzaruz wrote:
Kotaro wrote:Find 12 different colors that don't look anything alike, and lack'll do it.


The current 8 colours don't do that so why should it be an issue?


They do for a lot of people. I don't think I've ever had to turn on color codes, but with 12 player games it would be a virtual requirement. You need 13 different colors, which means we are using up half of the alphabet just for the color codes! :shock:

I have a feeling that adding this is not a priority since just getting to 8 players was somewhat difficult. But if we go in with the mindset that everyone is going to have to use codes anyway then maybe it wouldn't be so bad. If it ever does happen I really hope they don't adjust anything to the first 8 colors, because that adjustment is a pain.
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