Fair play Troop allocation at start of game

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Re: First Turn Troops Calculated on Game Initialisation

Postby Army of GOD on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:38 pm

I'm currently in a game with 5 reds.

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Re: First Turn Troops Calculated on Game Initialisation

Postby Darwins_Bane on Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:41 pm

gho wrote:How do I get this suggestion to progress?

garner support by having ppl post here with more elaboration or just to support the thread, it will get stickied eventually. You also have to hope that these ppl who are derailing your thread stop before it gets locked.
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Re: First Turn Troops Calculated on Game Initialisation

Postby gho on Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:09 am

Somebody mentioned previously that if this was implemented people who landed continents would receive there bonus even if they were taken away from them before they had there turn. I see this as further justification for this idea. I started a 3 player game on the England map recently and all 3 of us should have started with the +2 troops for having 7 territories in a region, as I started first, however, I managed to remove both their +2 bonus before they had taken a turn (it only required me taking 2 territories), putting me at a great advantage. While I benefited from this, I don't believe it was fair on my opposition.
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All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby nietzsche on Mon May 21, 2012 2:54 am

Same number of troops for deployment in round 1


Specifics/Details:
  • No matter how many of your territories were taken in the first turn, you will get the same amount of armies to deploy
  • If at the start both have 15 territories, both get 5 armies to deploy in the first turn (plus bonuses).

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • More fair
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby betiko on Mon May 21, 2012 6:35 am

very good suggestion! I approve 100%.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby Renee_W on Mon May 21, 2012 11:34 am

nietzsche wrote:Same number of troops for deployment in round 1
[*]If at the start both have 15 territories, both get 5 armies to deploy in the first turn (plus bonuses).[/list]


Those lines contradict. It would take a lot of luck or some code to balance initial places to give everyone the same troops and give bonuses the first turn.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby DiM on Mon May 21, 2012 3:29 pm

nietzsche wrote:Same number of troops for deployment in round 1


Specifics/Details:
  • No matter how many of your territories were taken in the first turn, you will get the same amount of armies to deploy
  • If at the start both have 15 territories, both get 5 armies to deploy in the first turn (plus bonuses).

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • More fair



there are already several maps that do this. but the xml is impossible to code for all maps to do it.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby squishyg on Mon May 21, 2012 3:53 pm

i get the point of your suggestion and its certainly valid. lord knows i've cursed the drop gods many times. buuuut..... this is a game of luck, risk, and skill. if just want a pure skill based game, play chess.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby Army of GOD on Mon May 21, 2012 6:23 pm

I think this suggestions exist...I certainly remember it being suggested before.

This should be implemented right now, but of course it'll be a few generations until it gets on the website.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby agentcom on Wed May 23, 2012 2:33 pm

I've never been too much in favor of the various ways that have been proposed to even out the first turn. This one is unique (if it's been suggested before, I've not seen it), but I don't know that it's necessary. If you make the first turn too "even" all you do is make the second turn the important one. You've just added an element before the turn where "first turn advantage" starts. So, I'm either indifferent to this idea or against it ... or maybe slightly for it, I don't know. I guess I should stick with indifferent.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby betiko on Thu May 24, 2012 2:28 pm

agentcom wrote:I've never been too much in favor of the various ways that have been proposed to even out the first turn. This one is unique (if it's been suggested before, I've not seen it), but I don't know that it's necessary. If you make the first turn too "even" all you do is make the second turn the important one. You've just added an element before the turn where "first turn advantage" starts. So, I'm either indifferent to this idea or against it ... or maybe slightly for it, I don't know. I guess I should stick with indifferent.


I don't agree, i think that deploying the same troops on the first turn doesn't make the second turn like a first turn. i do think it evens up the starting position. mostly lt's say.. in manual games.
I had suggested before to code maps in order not to start with 12, 15, 18 and so on but with 11, 14, 17. In those type of maps starting first makes it a too big advantage.
Take classic! 14 starting territories! not only people know the map, it's one of the best ballanced for 1vs1.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby agentcom on Fri May 25, 2012 10:09 am

Yes, there are a lot of maps that do a good job of balancing out 1 v 1. Even (amazingly!) Classic is all right. There are awful maps (Pac Man, City Mogul), too. But I don't think the solution lies in balancing out the first 2 drops.

But that's just a hunch ... I wish there were a sandbox section of this website where we could play around with these ideas. I'd play a few games. And the true test would be to figure out what percent of 1 v 1 games are won by first player now (Has anyone done this?) v. what percent under your system. I would love to see a system that gets that closer to 50%. I just don't know what that system is.

Crap, I always do this to myself (and other people's suggestions): I just thought of a new suggestion if anybody wants to post one. Or it could be added to the "MapBoard" suggestions. The above info would be really useful if it was broken down by map. I would love to see those stats. These stats could also benefit TOs trying to make balanced 1 v 1 tournies (although "balance" as used here isn't always the goal. And that's fine. See the KISS series.)
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby DiM on Fri May 25, 2012 5:05 pm

agentcom wrote:But that's just a hunch ... I wish there were a sandbox section of this website where we could play around with these ideas.



a sandbox already exists but except for a handful of people nobody has access. it would be great if mapmakers could use it but despite asking about it we never got the approval :(


another solution that's easy to implement is to allow each mapmaker to specialize his map for certain settings and restrict the map to those settings only.


for example city mogul is great and fair if it is played freestyle so i'd like to restrict it only to this setting.
or most of my other maps that are better with fog than sunny.
other maps might be awesome only for 6 players escalating or only with no spoils.
plus knowing you can restrict things you can go ahead and make new maps even better. for example a quads only map would be awesome and you don't have to worry about balancing it for other settings (1v1, terminator, etc), just make it as best as possible for quads.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby rousseau72 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:15 am

OK here is an update that perhaps we can all agree on. Make this AN OPTION. Players choose just like for/no fog.

Here are three start options
1) As is standard Conquest Club
2) This option here - I like it but agree that the coding could be weird or complex
3) (My personal favorite) No Bonus drop on first round. Its very easy to explain and takes out a situation which I abhor either getting or seeing my opponent get.
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Re: All get the same troops to deploy in round 1

Postby chapcrap on Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:54 am

I think that rousseau stated it well.

I wouldn't see a problem with this except for the fact that I think the real issue lies in the map itself, not the coding of the gameplay. If maps are properly made, then bonuses shouldn't be dropped except for on rare occasions. Perhaps what really needs done is for maps that are messed up to be fixed.
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