Conquer Club

natty dread wrote:Agentcom, you have much to learn about CC.

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I realize this. And I agree with your criticism of the process. But suggestions sometimes get implemented. I just want the right ones to be the ones that do.

ender516 wrote:I'm not trying to hijack this thread, natty, but I am wondering if you have tried my script.

Just tried it. Not bad. I don't need the outlines for the other colors though. Just blue, maybe green. Well, I don't NEED the outlines for any of the colors, but if you're trying to increase visibility it should be just with those darker colors.

agentcom wrote:

ender516 wrote:I'm not trying to hijack this thread, natty, but I am wondering if you have tried my script.

Just tried it. Not bad. I don't need the outlines for the other colors though. Just blue, maybe green. Well, I don't NEED the outlines for any of the colors, but if you're trying to increase visibility it should be just with those darker colors.

Because of the structure of the game pages, it is so much simpler to add the white outline to all troops, especially if you want to support Battle Royales where the colours are randomized. Picking and choosing the numbers to outline could also lead to a performance issue.

Further discussion of my script should likely take place in its own thread.

agentcom wrote:

natty dread wrote:Agentcom, you have much to learn about CC.

....

I realize this. And I agree with your criticism of the process. But suggestions sometimes get implemented. I just want the right ones to be the ones that do.

Lack more then likely wouldn't choose something as low as this, until he does some hiring , when other area's, such as the Foundry with XML updates, has been waiting for a long time. And the ones lack has been implementing, have either helped out everybody (such as the bolding team spoils), or added a new feature (Trench).

TheForgivenOne wrote:
Lack more then likely wouldn't choose something as low as this, until he does some hiring , when other area's, such as the Foundry with XML updates, has been waiting for a long time. And the ones lack has been implementing, have either helped out everybody (such as the bolding team spoils), or added a new feature (Trench).

Fine, then I return to one of my other original comments: Unsticky this if it's not going to go anywhere. I would think that a stickied suggestion lies somewhere between a Suggestion and a Submitted Suggestion. I mean, logically, that would seem to be the only reason to pull a suggestion out of the usual order (determined by latest post) and move it to the top of the thread.

Let this one die or let people fight for it rather than giving it the boost of putting it at the top of the thread.

Wah wah wah, bitch and moan... why don't you go make your own suggestion instead of complaining about others?

This suggestion has plenty of support and deserves to be submitted.

natty dread wrote:Wah wah wah, bitch and moan... why don't you go make your own suggestion instead of complaining about others?

This suggestion has plenty of support and deserves to be submitted.

Thank you, I will. In response to your question: I don't do that because I don't think this is all that important of an issue. Even though I like my idea better than yours, I don't think it's worth suggesting. My primary purpose here has been to make sure what I see as a bad suggestion (or at least worse than the alternative suggestion) is not implemented. Should I go make a suggestion that says "Leave blue alone!"?

As for your last comment, I ask: Where? In the useless poll that only 43 people have voted in that doesn't include the option to leave it the same or to add a white outline instead? In the opinions that have been expressed in the thread? There are also plenty of people who have said don't change it.

You want this to happen, and you're willing to carry the torch for it. That's fine. You are one of the most active and important people on this site. We all appreciate that. But that doesn't mean that I can't disagree with you and express that in "your" suggestion.

agentcom wrote:
As for your last comment, I ask: Where? In the useless poll that only 43 people have voted in that doesn't include the option to leave it the same or to add a white outline instead? In the opinions that have been expressed in the thread? There are also plenty of people who have said don't change it.

True, people have said no, but the amount of YES's have been higher. I say it again, just because a few people say no, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. I read through the thread, only about 6 or 7 people said no. And I counted more people saying yes then that.

TheForgivenOne wrote:

agentcom wrote:
As for your last comment, I ask: Where? In the useless poll that only 43 people have voted in that doesn't include the option to leave it the same or to add a white outline instead? In the opinions that have been expressed in the thread? There are also plenty of people who have said don't change it.

True, people have said no, but the amount of YES's have been higher. I say it again, just because a few people say no, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. I read through the thread, only about 6 or 7 people said no. And I counted more people saying yes then that.

Even among the yeses though, I don't think that there is agreement on a color. So that vote very well could be split. Also, as with any suggestion, we can't discount any selection bias that might be occurring.

Also, you wouldn't have to read through the entire thread and do a manual count of the votes if someone just set up a good poll. That seems to be a far more efficient way of figuring out what side people are on.

agentcom wrote: That seems to be a far more efficient way of figuring out what side people are on.

There is no efficient way of figuring that, because no matter what the people who even visit the suggestions forum are maybe 0,1% of all the users on CC, so whatever is discussed or voted here is never going to be representative of the entire user base.

Again, it's up to the admin's discretion to decide what suggestions to implement.

Besides, your alternative suggestion isn't that good really. Adding a white stroke to blue numbers only would not be aesthetically pleasing, as it would stand out as the only colour with a white stroke. It's much better to simply change the blue colour to be lighter, just like the other numbers already are. It solves all problems and there are no downsides.

natty dread wrote:

agentcom wrote: That seems to be a far more efficient way of figuring out what side people are on.

There is no efficient way of figuring that, because no matter what the people who even visit the suggestions forum are maybe 0,1% of all the users on CC, so whatever is discussed or voted here is never going to be representative of the entire user base.

Again, it's up to the admin's discretion to decide what suggestions to implement.

Besides, your alternative suggestion isn't that good really. Adding a white stroke to blue numbers only would not be aesthetically pleasing, as it would stand out as the only colour with a white stroke. It's much better to simply change the blue colour to be lighter, just like the other numbers already are. It solves all problems and there are no downsides.

Making the blue lighter might tend to make it easier to confuse with cyan which would be a downside. Have you tried my outlining script yet?

Sometimes I have to distinguish a yellow player from a neutral, a pink from red, a pink from orange, a orange from red, etc. all those bright colors all look the same.

ender516 wrote:Making the blue lighter might tend to make it easier to confuse with cyan

And as it is now it's easy to confuse with green, at least in some situations. That's why we have colour codes, no matter what colours are chosen some of them will always be hard to tell apart for some people and some monitors.

The point of this suggestion is to make sure all numbers have sufficient contrast from the background.

ender516 wrote: Have you tried my outlining script yet?

No, I haven't really had the need for it... besides, it doesn't really address all of the problem, since mapmakers can't rely on the existence of scripts that ultimately only a small part of the player base will use - and a large reason for this suggestion is to allow more freedom for the graphical design of maps.

Jdsizzleslice wrote:Sometimes I have to distinguish a yellow player from a neutral, a pink from red, a pink from orange, a orange from red, etc. all those bright colors all look the same.

This isn't about distinguishing two different colours apart. It is about distinguishing a colour from the background on certain maps.

natty dread wrote:

ender516 wrote: Have you tried my outlining script yet?

No, I haven't really had the need for it... besides, it doesn't really address all of the problem, since mapmakers can't rely on the existence of scripts that ultimately only a small part of the player base will use - and a large reason for this suggestion is to allow more freedom for the graphical design of maps.

But it is a proof of concept idea. I'm pretty sure ender wrote it to show that this is possible and easy. I've tried the script and it works. You can see all colors on all maps. It just puts a black and a white outline around the colors.

natty dread wrote:

ender516 wrote:Making the blue lighter might tend to make it easier to confuse with cyan

And as it is now it's easy to confuse with green, at least in some situations. That's why we have colour codes, no matter what colours are chosen some of them will always be hard to tell apart for some people and some monitors.

The point of this suggestion is to make sure all numbers have sufficient contrast from the background.

Yes, colour codes are useful, but your brain can play tricks on you. It can react to the colour it sees, despite the text it reads. So i would not want to see a colour change that makes any colours more similar than they are now. But you're right, the contrast is the real issue. That's why a black outline is used now, since so many maps, particularly older ones, have light troop circles.

natty dread wrote:

ender516 wrote: Have you tried my outlining script yet?

No, I haven't really had the need for it... besides, it doesn't really address all of the problem, since mapmakers can't rely on the existence of scripts that ultimately only a small part of the player base will use - and a large reason for this suggestion is to allow more freedom for the graphical design of maps.

No need for it? That makes me wonder why you made this suggestion. Still, I realize that a script is not the final best answer, but it is an opportunity to test drive a solution. If it does the trick, then it would be a very small matter to incorporate the change into the website by editing a single CSS file.

ender516 wrote:No need for it? That makes me wonder why you made this suggestion.

I'm just that altruistic.

I'd prefer to keep the colors the same as they are now.

Leave the blue alone! If you don't like how the color looks or can't distinguish between other colors then turn on the colorblind helper. I'm not colorblind but I have this option on anyway.

It's not a question of distinguishing the blue from other colours, it's a question of being able to read it at all on a dark background. (My contrast-enhancing script is still available.)

ender516 wrote:It's not a question of distinguishing the blue from other colours, it's a question of being able to read it at all on a dark background. (My contrast-enhancing script is still available.)

I have no problem with backgrounds and finding blue. What / how many maps is this really a problem on? Making cyan and blue more similar affects every game, I'm sure this background / map problems isn't every map.

IcePack

Reread the first post for some examples of maps where the contrast is poor (ConquerMan comes to mind).

ender516 wrote:Reread the first post for some examples of maps where the contrast is poor (ConquerMan comes to mind).

Conquer Man, Tamriel or Ancient Greece.

Three maps isn't really much of a problem. And then it would make it closer to cyan, and affect / confuse all of them?
Sounds like trading one problem and adding 10. Somehow 200+ maps were made and 3 are "problems", and needs to fix / affect all of them?

icePack

TheForgivenOne wrote:

agentcom wrote:
As for your last comment, I ask: Where? In the useless poll that only 43 people have voted in that doesn't include the option to leave it the same or to add a white outline instead? In the opinions that have been expressed in the thread? There are also plenty of people who have said don't change it.

True, people have said no, but the amount of YES's have been higher. I say it again, just because a few people say no, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. I read through the thread, only about 6 or 7 people said no. And I counted more people saying yes then that.

I mean, those are just the people that bothered to post "no". Naturally, you're going to get more people posting "yes" than "no" in a suggestion thread, because, well, why would I take the time to say I don't support a suggestion, unless it was something like a major gameplay change or what have you? For something that most would see as pretty minor, it's probably not worth it for dissenters to post. Now, if you were to do a poll like, "Do you support this suggestion?" then you might get a better gauge of who supports this and who doesn't, since it requires less effort for one to express his opinion.

(Excuse my tardiness.)

-Sully

Doesn't it all depend on what map you are playing though? Some maps it's more visible with the darker and others it's more visible with the lighter. So basically it all comes out in the wash. I hate darkly shaded maps and play them much less frequently so I voted for the darker version. Also, with the option of color codes (which I always use) its virtually a moot point.

If you don't like my Conquer Club Contrast Corrector (C4) script, the BOB script has the ability to add white circles behind the numbers on any map, with 10 levels of opacity.