Make blue army numbers lighter

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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby Jdsizzleslice on Mon May 28, 2012 12:59 am

Sometimes I have to distinguish a yellow player from a neutral, a pink from red, a pink from orange, a orange from red, etc. all those bright colors all look the same.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby natty dread on Mon May 28, 2012 3:35 pm

ender516 wrote:Making the blue lighter might tend to make it easier to confuse with cyan


And as it is now it's easy to confuse with green, at least in some situations. That's why we have colour codes, no matter what colours are chosen some of them will always be hard to tell apart for some people and some monitors.

The point of this suggestion is to make sure all numbers have sufficient contrast from the background.

ender516 wrote: Have you tried my outlining script yet?


No, I haven't really had the need for it... besides, it doesn't really address all of the problem, since mapmakers can't rely on the existence of scripts that ultimately only a small part of the player base will use - and a large reason for this suggestion is to allow more freedom for the graphical design of maps.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby TheForgivenOne on Mon May 28, 2012 3:43 pm

Jdsizzleslice wrote:Sometimes I have to distinguish a yellow player from a neutral, a pink from red, a pink from orange, a orange from red, etc. all those bright colors all look the same.


This isn't about distinguishing two different colours apart. It is about distinguishing a colour from the background on certain maps.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby agentcom on Mon May 28, 2012 11:50 pm

natty dread wrote:
ender516 wrote: Have you tried my outlining script yet?


No, I haven't really had the need for it... besides, it doesn't really address all of the problem, since mapmakers can't rely on the existence of scripts that ultimately only a small part of the player base will use - and a large reason for this suggestion is to allow more freedom for the graphical design of maps.


But it is a proof of concept idea. I'm pretty sure ender wrote it to show that this is possible and easy. I've tried the script and it works. You can see all colors on all maps. It just puts a black and a white outline around the colors.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby ender516 on Tue May 29, 2012 12:03 am

natty dread wrote:
ender516 wrote:Making the blue lighter might tend to make it easier to confuse with cyan


And as it is now it's easy to confuse with green, at least in some situations. That's why we have colour codes, no matter what colours are chosen some of them will always be hard to tell apart for some people and some monitors.

The point of this suggestion is to make sure all numbers have sufficient contrast from the background.

Yes, colour codes are useful, but your brain can play tricks on you. It can react to the colour it sees, despite the text it reads. So i would not want to see a colour change that makes any colours more similar than they are now. But you're right, the contrast is the real issue. That's why a black outline is used now, since so many maps, particularly older ones, have light troop circles.
natty dread wrote:
ender516 wrote: Have you tried my outlining script yet?


No, I haven't really had the need for it... besides, it doesn't really address all of the problem, since mapmakers can't rely on the existence of scripts that ultimately only a small part of the player base will use - and a large reason for this suggestion is to allow more freedom for the graphical design of maps.

No need for it? That makes me wonder why you made this suggestion. Still, I realize that a script is not the final best answer, but it is an opportunity to test drive a solution. If it does the trick, then it would be a very small matter to incorporate the change into the website by editing a single CSS file.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby natty dread on Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:49 pm

ender516 wrote:No need for it? That makes me wonder why you made this suggestion.


I'm just that altruistic.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby IcePack on Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:20 pm

I'd prefer to keep the colors the same as they are now.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby VectorxMan on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:24 pm

Leave the blue alone! If you don't like how the color looks or can't distinguish between other colors then turn on the colorblind helper. I'm not colorblind but I have this option on anyway.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby ender516 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:40 pm

It's not a question of distinguishing the blue from other colours, it's a question of being able to read it at all on a dark background. (My contrast-enhancing script is still available.)
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby IcePack on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:52 am

ender516 wrote:It's not a question of distinguishing the blue from other colours, it's a question of being able to read it at all on a dark background. (My contrast-enhancing script is still available.)


I have no problem with backgrounds and finding blue. What / how many maps is this really a problem on? Making cyan and blue more similar affects every game, I'm sure this background / map problems isn't every map.

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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby ender516 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:11 pm

Reread the first post for some examples of maps where the contrast is poor (ConquerMan comes to mind).
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby IcePack on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:00 am

ender516 wrote:Reread the first post for some examples of maps where the contrast is poor (ConquerMan comes to mind).


Conquer Man, Tamriel or Ancient Greece.

Three maps isn't really much of a problem. And then it would make it closer to cyan, and affect / confuse all of them?
Sounds like trading one problem and adding 10. Somehow 200+ maps were made and 3 are "problems", and needs to fix / affect all of them?

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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:55 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:
agentcom wrote:
As for your last comment, I ask: Where? In the useless poll that only 43 people have voted in that doesn't include the option to leave it the same or to add a white outline instead? In the opinions that have been expressed in the thread? There are also plenty of people who have said don't change it.


True, people have said no, but the amount of YES's have been higher. I say it again, just because a few people say no, doesn't mean it isn't going to happen. I read through the thread, only about 6 or 7 people said no. And I counted more people saying yes then that.

I mean, those are just the people that bothered to post "no". Naturally, you're going to get more people posting "yes" than "no" in a suggestion thread, because, well, why would I take the time to say I don't support a suggestion, unless it was something like a major gameplay change or what have you? For something that most would see as pretty minor, it's probably not worth it for dissenters to post. Now, if you were to do a poll like, "Do you support this suggestion?" then you might get a better gauge of who supports this and who doesn't, since it requires less effort for one to express his opinion.

(Excuse my tardiness.)

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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:40 pm

Doesn't it all depend on what map you are playing though? Some maps it's more visible with the darker and others it's more visible with the lighter. So basically it all comes out in the wash. I hate darkly shaded maps and play them much less frequently so I voted for the darker version. Also, with the option of color codes (which I always use) its virtually a moot point.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby ender516 on Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:25 pm

If you don't like my Conquer Club Contrast Corrector (C4) script, the BOB script has the ability to add white circles behind the numbers on any map, with 10 levels of opacity.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:08 pm

ender516 wrote:If you don't like my Conquer Club Contrast Corrector (C4) script, the BOB script has the ability to add white circles behind the numbers on any map, with 10 levels of opacity.


As Inspector Clouseau says: "Problem Solv-ed"
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby ender516 on Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:39 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
ender516 wrote:If you don't like my Conquer Club Contrast Corrector (C4) script, the BOB script has the ability to add white circles behind the numbers on any map, with 10 levels of opacity.


As Inspector Clouseau says: "Problem Solv-ed"

Well, some people cannot use scripts, and some would rather not, for performance reasons. So a site-based solution is still worth considering.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby IcePack on Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:57 pm

natty's already indicated he's not making any more maps. Are other map makers complaining? I still dont see a reason why the change is needed when it affects so few maps and would change many others...

I like blue as it is.

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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:23 am

IcePack wrote:natty's already indicated he's not making any more maps. Are other map makers complaining? I still dont see a reason why the change is needed when it affects so few maps and would change many others...

I like blue as it is.

IcePack

natty may not be back and this is a non problem imo. It would not do anything to the current maps, cause problems and only move the problem to other types of maps in the future.

Leave blue as it is.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:12 pm

Ok, so we can reject this now right? If after 2 years of discussion there still isn't agreement/support, we can ignore it?
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby agentcom on Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:53 pm

I've made it clear that I don't like this suggestion, so I have no problem with it being moved to rejected. But I don't want to cause some huge outcry, so let me know now if I'm going to be getting angry e-mails from people.

For the record, the biggest two problems that I've seen with this are 1) makes the color too close to cyan (possibly forcing more users to have to use color codes) and 2) (my main point) that it doesn't address the actual problem, which is that there is insufficient contrast between the nice and distinct dark blue color used currently and the black outline that is around all numbers.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby ender516 on Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:45 am

Yes, contrast is the issue. The best solution might be for the site to use colour-specific outlines on the numbers: light on dark and dark on light. Considering the randomly generated colours that appear in Battles Royale, this might need to be calculated on the fly. It might be possible for the site to provide a user setting for the breakover point between light and dark colours.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby chapcrap on Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:11 am

ender516 wrote:Yes, contrast is the issue. The best solution might be for the site to use colour-specific outlines on the numbers: light on dark and dark on light. Considering the randomly generated colours that appear in Battles Royale, this might need to be calculated on the fly. It might be possible for the site to provide a user setting for the breakover point between light and dark colours.

Something like that is really the best fix. If the number colors are two-toned, then it should really never matter what the map looks like.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby agentcom on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:38 pm

ender516 wrote:Yes, contrast is the issue. The best solution might be for the site to use colour-specific outlines on the numbers: light on dark and dark on light. Considering the randomly generated colours that appear in Battles Royale, this might need to be calculated on the fly. It might be possible for the site to provide a user setting for the breakover point between light and dark colours.


I completely agree, obviously. I've tried out your Color Contrast Corrector (or whatever it's called) and that does the trick. It's not that big of a deal to me, so I uninstalled it. But IF this is a big deal, then that's the best way of addressing it. I never thought about the issues with BRs though (well, BR's weren't a reality when we started this discussion).

I think you just need two outline colors: white and black. And yes, you would have to figure out where to delineate those. I googled [url=code to automatically pick contrasting color]code to pick contrasting color[/url] and these solutions appear pretty easy to implement. Of course, I think CC would just define which colors get black and which get white so the engine doesn't run these calculations every time. But the definitions would be based on these calculations.

Pick whether to use black or white
More complicated task of picking a unique contrasting color

I'm sure there are better sources out there. Obviously, many people have done this before.

Someone on CC could also do this manually ... create a list of all the colors used in BRs and just go through them and pick whether to give that color a black or white outline. You would publish this list to the game engine and the game engine would retrieve it.
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Re: Make blue army numbers lighter[Poll Added]

Postby agentcom on Fri Nov 23, 2012 1:57 pm

Also, if this discussion starts to develop, it really should be considered a separate suggestion.
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Colonel agentcom
 
Posts: 3955
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:50 pm
Medals: 76
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (15) General Achievement (8)
Clan Achievement (8) General Contribution (2)

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