Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

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Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Vovochka on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:17 am

In games with Nuclear Spoils there can be a situation when the player is not interested to get spoils. So he/she chooses not to attack at all.

It's all OK - however, there is a loophole which allows player to attack and yet not get spoils.

That is, after finishing attacks - stop moving and wait for one hour to be timed out. Then the effect of attack stays, while spoils are not received.

Since this behavior is possible I think that there is a need to:
(1) either introduce an option in which the player refuses to receive spoils
(2) player automatically receives spoils even if time-outed (in nuclear games)
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:55 am

I am pretty sure that the first option will be rejected, as if you don't want spoils, use no spoils.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Vovochka on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:23 am

I am sure that the situation described by me was clear but I want to give a specific example.

Let's say we have a map where some 3 or 4 territories represent a bonus.
Some player gets lucky and holds the bonus AND all spoils for those territories.

Without this loophole he could choose to just stack and not make a move. Because if he moves he is forced to receive spoil and cash it on next move erasing his own bonus.

With this loophole, however, he can gain an unfair advantage by attacking and not getting spoils (by timing himself out).
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby karelpietertje on Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:28 am

People have been aware of this loophole for quite some time.
I agree that it is inconsistent, and though not a big issue, should be fixed by either one of the above solutions.

@TFO: you have to use spoils when you are at 5 cards, so there is not always the option to just not use spoils.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby SirSebstar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:43 am

also the not getting a spoil comes at a price of not being able to fort.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Tupence on Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:19 am

SirSebstar wrote:also the not getting a spoil comes at a price of not being able to fort.

Except for when playing Unlimited forts, as you could keep forting and just never end the turn.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby anonymus on Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:32 am

i dont know why this is a problem.. i dont hear anyone complaining about their opponents not getting spoils when timing out in other spoilsettings..
i have used it when i have to and care enough about the game to have the patience and i dont see the problem..
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Joodoo on Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:49 am

More of a cheap tactic than a loophole to me. I'm fine with people stacking up ridiculous amounts of troops on a territory of which they hold a spoil (ex.stacking onto Territory A while they have Territory A as a spoil), but purposely running out of time to avoid getting spoils could deserve poor ratings in the fair play/gameplay category.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby kabuki.mono on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:27 am

Joodoo wrote:More of a cheap tactic than a loophole to me. I'm fine with people stacking up ridiculous amounts of troops on a territory of which they hold a spoil (ex.stacking onto Territory A while they have Territory A as a spoil), but purposely running out of time to avoid getting spoils could deserve poor ratings in the fair play/gameplay category.


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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby SirSebstar on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:32 pm

-1..
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby shoop76 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:01 pm

Definitely agree with Joodoo here. This tactic I have also seen being used in a doubles escalating game. The player attacks and knows that he will be eliminated in the next turn and doesn't want the other team getting an extra card. Some people will say it is tactical strategy but to me its just cheap.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Crazyirishman on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:39 pm

other people are able to get the same card in the nuclear spils game so the guys bonus could get wiped out either way
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:29 pm

Crazyirishman wrote:other people are able to get the same card in the nuclear spils game so the guys bonus could get wiped out either way


Only depending on the amount of territories on the map. The only time duplicate cards come out when more spoils are currently in play than territories.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Bones2484 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:36 pm

I've never understood why you don't automatically get a card when your turn ends, provided you take a territory... regardless of whether you ended the turn or the turn was ended for you.

Can you imagine this conversation sitting around a board with a friend?
Friend 1: Alright, I'm all done. Your turn.
Friend 2: You gotta take a card.
Friend 1: No!
Friend 2: Uh...
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby shoop76 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:44 pm

Bones2484 wrote:
Can you imagine this conversation sitting around a board with a friend?
Friend 1: Alright, I'm all done. Your turn.
Friend 2: You gotta take a card.
Friend 1: No!
Friend 2: Uh...


lol

and how true
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:54 pm

Bones2484 wrote:I've never understood why you don't automatically get a card when your turn ends, provided you take a territory... regardless of whether you ended the turn or the turn was ended for you.


Well, it's a motivation to actually end your turn, instead of the current shenanigans that dominate freestyle play.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:15 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:I've never understood why you don't automatically get a card when your turn ends, provided you take a territory... regardless of whether you ended the turn or the turn was ended for you.


Well, it's a motivation to actually end your turn, instead of the current shenanigans that dominate freestyle play.

freestyle?
Freestyle sucks
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby mc05025 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:42 pm

not taking a spoil is not a good strategy only for nuclear spoils.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby SirSebstar on Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:28 am

mc05025 wrote:not taking a spoil is not a good strategy only for nuclear spoils.

means:
not taking a spoil is not a good strategy. This works only for nuclear spoils.
and i have to say, usually this is true, but with every rule, there are exceptions
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby andyr601 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:04 pm

Bones2484 wrote:I've never understood why you don't automatically get a card when your turn ends, provided you take a territory... regardless of whether you ended the turn or the turn was ended for you.

Can you imagine this conversation sitting around a board with a friend?
Friend 1: Alright, I'm all done. Your turn.
Friend 2: You gotta take a card.
Friend 1: No!
Friend 2: Uh...


Your hypothetical board game situation is funny and helps bring logic to this debate. I don't think CC inventors intended for anybody to obtain an advantage by cheap stall tactics. Whether you time out or end your turn, everyone gets a spoil if they make a successful attack. Lets keep it simple.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby TheForgivenOne on Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:21 pm

I could see why the "miss a card if your turn runs out" in speed games, mainly freestyle. Risk cashing/attacking as late as possible with the risk of missing your card. But don't see it justified for the casual part
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby 40kguy on Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:02 pm

once you play nuclear games, you realize this is the worst thing ever, you want cards that way you can kill stacks making your life easier!
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby stahrgazer on Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:31 pm

Vovochka wrote:In games with Nuclear Spoils there can be a situation when the player is not interested to get spoils. So he/she chooses not to attack at all.

It's all OK - however, there is a loophole which allows player to attack and yet not get spoils.

That is, after finishing attacks - stop moving and wait for one hour to be timed out. Then the effect of attack stays, while spoils are not received.

Since this behavior is possible I think that there is a need to:
(1) either introduce an option in which the player refuses to receive spoils
(2) player automatically receives spoils even if time-outed (in nuclear games)


This has been complained about frequently. So far, CC hasn't chosen to fix it. It took a long time of complaining before the freestyle doubleturn was ended, too.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:36 am

stargazer, that still has not been completely fixed.freestyle that is.
Also i have noticed that the complaints about nuke and not ending turns is really really a small group of the same people. No offense, but its not something that I have seen that bothers the vocal community at large. Must be my bad eyesight then.

i find more complaints about not getting drops, unreadable legends and epic much more about dice.
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Re: Loophole (?) in Nuclear Games

Postby SirSebstar on Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:36 am

40kguy wrote:once you play nuclear games, you realize this is the worst thing ever, you want cards that way you can kill stacks making your life easier!


not if you hold 4 cards, and they are all owned by you!
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