Redefinition of the farming rule

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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Jippd on Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:37 am

MichelSableheart wrote:[*]systematically creating 5 player standard feudal war games, with the intent of getting new recruits to join.[/list]


I don't agree with this. It is fun to play with 5 players on maps like feudal or pelo. In the example of feudal epic or pelo playing five players allows you to each start with one base and have 3 neutral bases, which encourages people to attack more.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby TheForgivenOne on Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:16 am

As of right now, we are talking about something behind the scenes involving this. I mean, nothing, move along, nothing to see here.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby cookie0117 on Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:36 am

greenoaks wrote:every game i play i intend on taking advantage of them. some maps & settings i have an actual chance of doing so.

i am against this because this rule stops me from playing almost everyone on this site on Realms 2, Manual, Freestyle, Nuke, Foggy.

no one is forcing the low ranks to join those games. they choose to do so.


The moral line is crossed when you actively seek them by invite.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby s3xt0y on Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:15 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:As of right now, we are talking about something behind the scenes involving this. I mean, nothing, move along, nothing to see here.


I have seen this before in a DH thread from last year, really discussing eh?
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby oran0007 on Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:43 am

I agree with this. On a side note, why did greenoaks have to say why he/she disagrees if those who agree did not have to state why they agree. If the intent of the thread is to gauge interest, simply disagreeing helps with that. It just doesn't help the op change the suggestion. If one does not like the suggestion at all, they may see no way of improving it, and therefore not waste their time explaining why they disagree just to start an argument.

Back on topic, I think that this would be great because it would make me less wary of joining games on maps I am unfamiliar with, without having to wait for the last spot to ensure I don't lose to someone who spends all of his/her time on that map. I don't mind losing, I just want to be able to get a feel for a map before I play the sharks. ;)
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby eddie2 on Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:59 am

s3xt0y wrote:
TheForgivenOne wrote:As of right now, we are talking about something behind the scenes involving this. I mean, nothing, move along, nothing to see here.


I have seen this before in a DH thread from last year, really discussing eh?


was this the same thread where certain maps were meant to be added to the ban list for new recruits ?????
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby barackattack on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:11 am

How do you prove intent?
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby MichelSableheart on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:45 am

Proving intent is impossible, of course. However, that doesn't mean that intent can't be determined. Contents of pms, invitations sent and talking to the player will give quite some insight in the intentions of a player. And if there's doubt wrt intent, the player can be requested to stop the suspect behaviour without punishment.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby MichelSableheart on Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:51 am

Jippd wrote:
MichelSableheart wrote:[*]systematically creating 5 player standard feudal war games, with the intent of getting new recruits to join.


I don't agree with this. It is fun to play with 5 players on maps like feudal or pelo. In the example of feudal epic or pelo playing five players allows you to each start with one base and have 3 neutral bases, which encourages people to attack more.


If those are your reasons, then you don't have the intent of getting new recruits to join, which means that you wouldn't be in problems given the rule as proposed. However, you might be asked to organize those games as private games through callouts to show that systematically playing New Recruits indeed isn't what you're after.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby IR1SH ACE on Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:20 am

I agree with this....would be an improvement
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby JCR on Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:36 am

I agree with this, however based on the recent rule change to lessen the punishment for farming instituted to IMO protect friends. seen here http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=162184this conversation and others like it I fear are little more than mental masturbation.

It is clear that the rules can and will be changed rather easily, but considering that MANY have brought up this topic for apparently quite a long time with no action ever having been taken, this suggestion too will be ignored.

I hate to be cynical but it appears to me that open season has been declared for farming and ranching, quite the opposite of what you are suggesting.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:50 am

MichelSableheart wrote:Proving intent is impossible, of course.


So you want to give more power in the hands of the moderators to arbitrarily decide who gets punished and who doesn't?

Smart.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Woodruff on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:16 pm

natty_dread wrote:
MichelSableheart wrote:Proving intent is impossible, of course.


So you want to give more power in the hands of the moderators to arbitrarily decide who gets punished and who doesn't?


More power? Your use of that phrase in this context confuses me.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby rockfist on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:25 pm

I have gone on medal hunts often...when I want to get some points and I've been on a medal hunt I will "target" higher ranked players in speed games because I figure I am somewhere around 50% to win and the points differential is such that by winning 50% of those games I will win a lot more points than I lose. Would this constitute picking on a specific group of players and thus be farming?
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Woodruff on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:28 pm

rockfist wrote:I have gone on medal hunts often...when I want to get some points and I've been on a medal hunt I will "target" higher ranked players in speed games because I figure I am somewhere around 50% to win and the points differential is such that by winning 50% of those games I will win a lot more points than I lose. Would this constitute picking on a specific group of players and thus be farming?


I suppose an argument could be made for it (I do precisely the same thing) however, I would disagree...in my view, a "rancher" (if you will) fully expects to win a vast majority of their games due to the tremendous difference in skill levels whereas in what you're describing you are hoping to win around 50% of the games. There a LOT more risk involved in your strategy than in the "rancher" strategy...far more.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby rockfist on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:37 pm

I hope to win somewhat more than 50% (although realistically not more than 60). I am just cocky (stupid) enough to think I can.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Woodruff on Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:46 pm

rockfist wrote:I hope to win somewhat more than 50% (although realistically not more than 60). I am just cocky (stupid) enough to think I can.


Ok, but you surely understand the point I'm making. <smile>
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby natty dread on Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:42 am

Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?

I still haven't heard a good answer to this question.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Jippd on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:11 am

natty_dread wrote:Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?

I still haven't heard a good answer to this question.


Another good question is who would join or create a game that they don't think they will win?
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby MichelSableheart on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:55 am

natty_dread wrote:So you want to give more power in the hands of the moderators to arbitrarily decide who gets punished and who doesn't?
No more power or arbitrariness then they already have. In the current farming rules, they have to determine the difference between occasional and systematic. They already have to determine what use of language is acceptable or unacceptable behaviour. Determining intent is of a similar magnitude, and can be expected from good, fair moderators. Whether or not we have those is another issue, that should not influence this discussion IMO.

rockfist wrote:I have gone on medal hunts often...when I want to get some points and I've been on a medal hunt I will "target" higher ranked players in speed games because I figure I am somewhere around 50% to win and the points differential is such that by winning 50% of those games I will win a lot more points than I lose. Would this constitute picking on a specific group of players and thus be farming?
Picking on a specific group of players isn't the only part of the proposed farming rule. There's also the "intent to take advantage" part. What you describe would probably be picking on a specific group of players, but without intent to take advantage, there's no problem.

natty_dread wrote:Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?
Following the rules proposed, you're free to play whatever maps and settings you want, as long as you play all comers. It's not illegal to play games you know you'll likely win, it's illegal to systematically play opponents you'll likely win against. Why should it be? Because that behaviour creates a poor playing experience for those players.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Woodruff on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Jippd wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?

I still haven't heard a good answer to this question.


Another good question is who would join or create a game that they don't think they will win?


I would. I don't want an easy win, I want the fun of actual competition.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby chapcrap on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:52 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Jippd wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?

I still haven't heard a good answer to this question.


Another good question is who would join or create a game that they don't think they will win?


I would. I don't want an easy win, I want the fun of actual competition.

I would too. For medals or to learn new maps.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Jippd on Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:29 pm

chapcrap wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Jippd wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?

I still haven't heard a good answer to this question.


Another good question is who would join or create a game that they don't think they will win?


I would. I don't want an easy win, I want the fun of actual competition.

I would too. For medals or to learn new maps.


My point is that every map I play (whether I know it or not), I go into the game planning on winning whether I will or not is a different question.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby chapcrap on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:16 pm

Jippd wrote:My point is that every map I play (whether I know it or not), I go into the game planning on winning whether I will or not is a different question.

Fair enough.
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Re: Redefinition of the farming rule

Postby Woodruff on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:42 pm

Jippd wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Jippd wrote:
natty_dread wrote:Why should it be illegal to play games you know you'll likely win?

I still haven't heard a good answer to this question.


Another good question is who would join or create a game that they don't think they will win?


I would. I don't want an easy win, I want the fun of actual competition.

I would too. For medals or to learn new maps.


My point is that every map I play (whether I know it or not), I go into the game planning on winning whether I will or not is a different question.


Well, of course. But that's really not the sort of thing that's the problem...that's just simple competitiveness. That's a far different thing from knowing you're getting an almost certain victory.
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