Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Suggestions that have been inactive for a long period of time.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:46 am

Trap's suggestion is something I think that is outside of this suggestion, and something more complicated than revisiting and updating older XMLs. However, it might find a home in a new topic.


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25472
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby trapyoung on Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:55 am

AndyDufresne wrote:Trap's suggestion is something I think that is outside of this suggestion, and something more complicated than revisiting and updating older XMLs. However, it might find a home in a new topic.


--Andy


I was just trying to determine whether there were multiple ways to address this problem that Jake and others have noted. So I'm just spitballing at the moment. I think this would be particularly useful in games like Waterloo where a 1v1 gives a deploy of around 10 (ignoring bonuses that might be dropped) and with the use of bombardments and hot dice, the second players deploy could be decreased to something like 6 before their first move.

I really viewed this topic as indicating a problem prevalent on certain maps and then if there is enough interest that warrants inquiry then a solution can be negotiated and implemented so I can start another topic if necessary but my first post was really regarding the viability of such a resolution
Colonel trapyoung
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:25 pm
Medals: 43
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:23 am

trapyoung wrote:I was just trying to determine whether there were multiple ways to address this problem that Jake and others have noted. So I'm just spitballing at the moment. I think this would be particularly useful in games like Waterloo where a 1v1 gives a deploy of around 10 (ignoring bonuses that might be dropped) and with the use of bombardments and hot dice, the second players deploy could be decreased to something like 6 before their first move.

I really viewed this topic as indicating a problem prevalent on certain maps and then if there is enough interest that warrants inquiry then a solution can be negotiated and implemented so I can start another topic if necessary but my first post was really regarding the viability of such a resolution


You sound like a f*cking lawyer with all that talk. :lol:

Queen_Herpes wrote:All that being said, I believe that trapyoung has a better solution. Give all players the same number of round1 armies. I might even go so far as to suggest that in round one no bonuses are awarded to any player who is dropped a bonus, but, I think trapyoung's suggestion is good enough for now.


This may be a better option for 1v1, especially on larger maps. I don't typically play large maps on 1v1, so I don't have any experience on them to draw from. However, we still have problems on certain maps where you drop 12 or 15 territories on 4p. The rule would have to apply to all players' first turn in games that are not 1v1.

AndyDufresne wrote:Trap's suggestion is something I think that is outside of this suggestion, and something more complicated than revisiting and updating older XMLs. However, it might find a home in a new topic.


If there is a consensus that this is a better idea, it will potentially take longer to implement, as this would require an XML engine change via lack, not a simple change to XML via the Foundry. That's why I approached it this way.
User avatar
Captain Ace Rimmer
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:22 pm
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (9) Map Contribution (1)
Tournament Contribution (7) General Contribution (4)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:08 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Trap's suggestion is something I think that is outside of this suggestion, and something more complicated than revisiting and updating older XMLs. However, it might find a home in a new topic.


--Andy


I'm all about an easy solution, but I'm not necessarily on board with the original suggestion by Jakewilliams based on reasons already mentioned. It would fundamentally change gameplay on a number of maps. In the end, will it improve gameplay on those maps? If this is to be investigated I think one map should be attempted on a beta-basis. This would need to be a map played by a lot of players and chosen frequently to be played. The original version, if kept open at the same time the beta version is being trialed, could also be played for comparison.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
User avatar
Lieutenant Queen_Herpes
 
Posts: 1339
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Right Here. Look into my eyes.
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (3) General Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:12 am

Alright, due to that nice... Hm, "vent" by trap in GD, i feel like pulling this up again. I really don't see a downside to older maps being updated to make them more "fair" on round 1.

Has any list of maps come up that the drop is set on 12/15/18?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant TheForgivenOne
 
Posts: 5154
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 8:27 pm
Location: Lost somewhere in the snow. HELP ME
Medals: 83
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (7)
General Contribution (11)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby Ace Rimmer on Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:26 am

Still working on the list, I'll try to finish it this coming week.
User avatar
Captain Ace Rimmer
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:22 pm
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (9) Map Contribution (1)
Tournament Contribution (7) General Contribution (4)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby Ace Rimmer on Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:56 pm

OK, so I have my spreadsheet made with all the information (hopefully all correct).

Questions to pose:

1. Is a 12/15 terit drop an advantage in a multiplayer (3+) non-team game? I would say no as the first player can't take the bonus from all the other players, so it is not a large advantage like it is in 1v1 or team games
2. Is there an upper limit where it no longer makes a difference? For example, in a 4p Battle of Actium game, you start with 24 territories each. Would moving this down to 23 (causing you to drop 7 instead of 8) make a large difference?
3. What about games where you get 12 for a quads game? Is that considered a problem?

Link to my spreadsheet (probably requires a google docs account): http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

red & bold = non-magic number
blue & bold = deviates from the estimated math due to coded starting positions
x/y in cell = different starting number for 2/3 players due to coded starting positions
User avatar
Captain Ace Rimmer
 
Posts: 1908
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:22 pm
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (9) Map Contribution (1)
Tournament Contribution (7) General Contribution (4)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby natty dread on Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:15 pm

1. I'd say it can be... the current foundry guidelines are to optimize drops for all player numbers.

2. Well if it's something like 9 vs 10 troops then it probably won't make a difference

3. yes, I'd say so.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class natty dread
 
Posts: 13324
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:58 pm
Location: just plain fucked
Medals: 49
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) General Achievement (12) Map Contribution (12) General Contribution (7)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:48 am

Great work Jake!

In a multiplayer non team game an unfair starts is less important because, if a player is in the lead, then the others tend to attack the leader. So, with a 12/15 territories the first player could take an advantage, but it won't be kept for so long. ;)
Usually maps with 72+ territories give an advantage to the player who goes first in any case (specially in a 1vs1). For example if you start first and you deploy 9 or more troops in a single territory there's no way , except horrible dice, that your oppponent will start the game with the same number of troops to deploy. In any case, if i remember correctly, the old limit was Waterloo (104).

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby lord voldemort on Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:55 am

quads drops of 12 are well unfair...waterloo comes to mind off the top of my head
Image
User avatar
Lieutenant lord voldemort
 
Posts: 9665
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:39 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Medals: 66
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (4) Clan Achievement (13) Tournament Contribution (8) General Contribution (3)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby Queen_Herpes on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:30 am

jakewilliams wrote:Draknor: level 1. In 1v1 you each start with 12 terits. If you take a single terit from the next player, they start with 11 (while you have 13) and it's very hard to take back two territories with a drop of 3 troops. First turn is a major advantage in a sequential game, or non-speed freestyle game.

Solar System 4 players (so either 2v2 dubs or 4p) you each start with 15 terits. With normal rolls the first turn, you can get the next player to 14 terits and at a disadvantage to start (they get 4 to drop opposed to the 5 the first player started with). With great dice you take 4 terits and they drop 3 (while you dropped 5).

This would be of lesser importance in multiplayer or manual games - but as I play mostly team or 1v1 games this affects me greatly.

Jake


I believe that a lot of excellent effort has been put forth by jakewilliams on this topic. However, there is a slippery slope here. If both players in a one v one are on a map that drops them 11 territories each, the player-who-goes-first gets the advantage of getting the first shot at gaining 12 territories. If that player-who-goes-first(player1) gains that 12th territory and does so by knocking the player-who-goes-second (player2) down to 10 territories, is there not an advantage that needs to be mitigated there for round 2?

With this suggestion, the assumption is that the number of neutral-owned territories will be increased. With an increase in neutral territories there will be a decrease in border-connections between territories owned by player1 and player2. The decrease in border-connections between player1 and player2 will result in a real difficulty for player2 to attack a territory owned by player1 and reduce player1's territory count to below 12 (or 15, or 18, or 21).

One way to mitigate this situation is to place all players ON ALL MAPS (no matter what the game type) in a situation where each player is dropped 10 territories (or less). This would require player1 to conquer 2 (or more) territories in order to gain an increase in the territory-count-bonus. Same would go for all other players and might create a more level-playing field, but, ultimately, the benefit goes to the player-who-goes-frst (player1) and I do not believe there is a way to effectively deal with the benefit of going first in any game on any map based on the suggestion herein to reduce the number of dropped territories on tens of maps.

What will be accomplished, is that gameplay will be changed if this suggestion goes through, sufficiently enough perhaps to alter whether a map will be played or not. I happen to like Draknor the way it is. How many other players are out there that share a similar belief about Draknor or other maps?
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
User avatar
Lieutenant Queen_Herpes
 
Posts: 1339
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Right Here. Look into my eyes.
Medals: 29
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (3) General Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (1)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby trapyoung on Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:49 pm

I don't think the 11 terr drop is a problem. If one gets to 12 and drops the other to 10, the point is that the deploys for the first round are the same - even +3s. I think that jake's suggestion is good but ultimately the site should attempt to have a system where your initial deploy cannot be ruined by someone moving first so that the deployments are equal even if someone drops you 9 or 10 territories (for huge maps). First round deployment parity should be the goal and then what happens after that is fair game. Maybe even the goal should be initial army deployment based on initial territories alone (not bonuses dropped and not changing when someone loses a territory from 12-11 in weird maps)
Colonel trapyoung
 
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:25 pm
Medals: 43
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (2)
General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (9)

Re: Revamp older map XML for fair drops

Postby thenobodies80 on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:53 am

No news here?....it was a good suggestion, I can't believe that nobody is interested in this possible improvement ....i'm willing to help if there will be something to change in the xmls, but i'd like to hear more people opinions about Jake's list --> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby betiko on Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:14 pm

Amount of starting territories in 1vs1


Hi; I just think that on some maps, the amount of starting territories make the 1vs1 games really unfair. I think that in no map a player should start with 12 territories; because he wil start with a too big advantage. A map such as classic is perfect; 14 starting territories makes it almost impossible to reduce the second player to 11 before he even started his first turn. Therefore, my suggestion would be to change all maps that in 1vs1 have 12, 15 or 18 starting territories and to make 2 more starting neutrals. starting with 11 (or less depending on the map); 14 or 17 would make more sense.



Specifics/Details:
  • xxxxxxx

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • this would guarantee a stronger balance in 1vs1 games and would give a better chance to the player playing second
Image
User avatar
Brigadier betiko
 
Posts: 5533
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:05 pm
Location: Paris
Medals: 158
Conquer Cup Gold Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (17) General Achievement (30) Clan Achievement (11) Training Achievement (2)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby betiko on Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:55 pm

no one ever thought some maps were unfair for this?
Image
User avatar
Brigadier betiko
 
Posts: 5533
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:05 pm
Location: Paris
Medals: 158
Conquer Cup Gold Achievement (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3)
Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (2)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2)
Random Map Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (17) General Achievement (30) Clan Achievement (11) Training Achievement (2)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:33 pm

Most maps in development in the Foundry (and pretty much for the last couple of years), take into account unbalanced 1vs1, either by making it so, or making it as fair as possible without hurting the gameplay for other settings.

Are the maps you referring to mostly older maps? Do you have a list?


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25472
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby Geger on Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:59 am

Hard to make a complete list, but here are some examples :
- Portugal
- Italy
- Draknor lvl1

Each player start with 12 regions in 1vs1
User avatar
Brigadier Geger
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:29 am
Location: Sumatra
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Polymorphic Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby chapcrap on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:24 pm

Africa starts at 15v15.
Image
User avatar
Captain chapcrap
 
Posts: 9581
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:46 am
Location: Kansas City
Medals: 168
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (4) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (31)
General Achievement (16) Clan Achievement (17) Training Achievement (6) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (34)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:29 pm

Geger wrote:Hard to make a complete list, but here are some examples :
- Portugal
- Italy
- Draknor lvl1

Each player start with 12 regions in 1vs1

chapcrap wrote:Africa starts at 15v15.


These are pretty old maps:

Africa Image (Apr 25, 2006)
Portugal (Sep 27, 2007)
Italy (Sep 27, 2007)
Dungeon of Draknor : Halls of Testing (an 18, 2008)

Perhaps contacting thenobodies80 and seeing if it is possible to finagle the XML without changing any of the gameplay is possible, to make 1vs1 more fair.


--Andy
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class AndyDufresne
Retired Administrator
 
Posts: 25472
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:22 pm
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (1) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) General Achievement (4) General Contribution (2)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:35 am

There was some discussion about this in past. viewtopic.php?f=471&t=122033
If someone is willing to help/suggest/etc, I'm very open to find a possible fix for those old maps who have an unfair drop, just throw me a PM. ;)

Ace Rimmer wrote a "complete list" of these maps, probably it needs to be updated but I think that it lists mostly all maps involved in some way.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... 2OQL#gid=1

Nobodies

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby Geger on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:33 am

Dang! There is a list :lol:

... I'll look why the suggestion was rejected :roll:
User avatar
Brigadier Geger
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:29 am
Location: Sumatra
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Polymorphic Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:34 pm

More than rejected it stalled (although I know it was archieved as rejected). As said previously I'm really interested to find out a couple of person to help me to find a solution for those unfair maps. If you want to help just send me a PM. ;)

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby Chariot of Fire on Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:33 pm

Cuban Missile Crisis - another map where in 1v1 the person starting has 4 armies for 12 terrs.

I thought Ace had something to do with this map's creation? Some irony there.
Image
Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
User avatar
General Chariot of Fire
 
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:13 am
Location: Hong Kong
Medals: 89
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (21) General Achievement (9) Clan Achievement (25)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby Geger on Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:52 pm

I will comment on suggestion for games 1vs1 only, other types of games seem more complicated to find the ideal solution :mrgreen:

I can conclude after reading some people disagree with this suggestion because it does not solve the problem of the 1st starter's advantages in 1vs1 games. But somehow this suggestion makes the games 1vs1 more fair between the first and second starter. The bigger the map the effect is smaller.

Therefore, for the first step, I support the suggestion to add 1 to 3 neutrals start for map with 36 to 38 territories, so that each player starts with 11 territories. And after seeing the process of making a map right now (eg Eurasia), this is easy to do.
User avatar
Brigadier Geger
 
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:29 am
Location: Sumatra
Medals: 20
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (2) Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1)
Polymorphic Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1)
Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: Amount of starting territories in 1vs1

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:05 am

In general all maps with 72+ regions give a significant advantage to the first player, so for those there's no real solution, in fact the gameplay balancing for that maps is more focused to have fair team games.
Yes add some neutral with certain maps could be a solution but the placement must be done in a well manner or the current gameplay could change too much.

I'll take a look at that list in the next couple of days, if there's interest in having this issue fixed, we'll find a solution soon. ;)

Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class thenobodies80
 
Posts: 5558
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 am
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Bot Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
General Achievement (8) Map Contribution (7) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (17)

PreviousNext

Return to Archived Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Login