Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

Postby L M S on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:38 am

Yes Duke, I agree that would be the best way to auto deploy them. I'm not even sure its possible however.

And Doom, I havent counted them, all I know is that it does happen, often enough. You don't play many team games do you? I would bet that it comes into play more often then (unconfirmed).

Why are you so adamant about it is my question? If CC is simply a game to you and you don't care weather or not you miss turns....why should the majority back off for the individual?
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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss

Postby Commander9 on Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:29 pm

chapcrap wrote:I wouldn't have a problem with the random placement of troops after a missed turn. I think that's a good idea.


+1.
But... It was so artistically done.
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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

Postby agentcom on Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:03 pm

I have never understood the argument that missing a turn can provide an advantage. I have heard it from many people including people that I greatly respect on this site. Perhaps in some extremely narrow circumstances, you can gain an advantage by waiting a turn and dropping a bigger stack on a partner. But I can't think of when this would actually yield a statistical advantage. When you miss a turn (depending on maps and settings), you miss an opportunity to attack, reinforce, card, and get auto-deploys. When you come back you are forced to dump any deferred troops on 1 territory. I have never used this strategy. I have never been in a situation where it would be beneficial. And I have never seen anybody use this strategy against me.

If I had to guess, I would say that some people who have played a ton of games have been in a situation where they just couldn't counter those extra troops. Whether those extra troops came the turn before (i.e. the person didn't miss) or the current turn, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. It's probably a combination of deferred troops dropping and then getting bad dice. Instead of seeing it as bad luck, these players blame the deferred troops. That's my guess anyway.
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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

Postby L M S on Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:31 am

agentcom wrote:I have never understood the argument that missing a turn can provide an advantage. I have heard it from many people including people that I greatly respect on this site. Perhaps in some extremely narrow circumstances, you can gain an advantage by waiting a turn and dropping a bigger stack on a partner. But I can't think of when this would actually yield a statistical advantage. When you miss a turn (depending on maps and settings), you miss an opportunity to attack, reinforce, card, and get auto-deploys. When you come back you are forced to dump any deferred troops on 1 territory. I have never used this strategy. I have never been in a situation where it would be beneficial. And I have never seen anybody use this strategy against me.

If I had to guess, I would say that some people who have played a ton of games have been in a situation where they just couldn't counter those extra troops. Whether those extra troops came the turn before (i.e. the person didn't miss) or the current turn, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. It's probably a combination of deferred troops dropping and then getting bad dice. Instead of seeing it as bad luck, these players blame the deferred troops. That's my guess anyway.


in a team game it can be a killer.
here's a current example right here:
hairy didn't miss on purpose but it still gave us a huge advantage when he came back, enough to turn the tide in our favor.

Game 10688199
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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

Postby Royal Panda on Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:22 am

L M S wrote:
agentcom wrote:I have never understood the argument that missing a turn can provide an advantage. I have heard it from many people including people that I greatly respect on this site. Perhaps in some extremely narrow circumstances, you can gain an advantage by waiting a turn and dropping a bigger stack on a partner. But I can't think of when this would actually yield a statistical advantage. When you miss a turn (depending on maps and settings), you miss an opportunity to attack, reinforce, card, and get auto-deploys. When you come back you are forced to dump any deferred troops on 1 territory. I have never used this strategy. I have never been in a situation where it would be beneficial. And I have never seen anybody use this strategy against me.

If I had to guess, I would say that some people who have played a ton of games have been in a situation where they just couldn't counter those extra troops. Whether those extra troops came the turn before (i.e. the person didn't miss) or the current turn, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. It's probably a combination of deferred troops dropping and then getting bad dice. Instead of seeing it as bad luck, these players blame the deferred troops. That's my guess anyway.


in a team game it can be a killer.
here's a current example right here:
hairy didn't miss on purpose but it still gave us a huge advantage when he came back, enough to turn the tide in our favor.

Game 10688199


How did I know that was going to be a map like PR? Happened to me before as well. Awhile ago but I remember it because I very rarely miss turns, and this wasn't on purpose. Again though it completely swung the game in our favour.
Game 5815311
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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

Postby agentcom on Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:36 am

L M S wrote:
agentcom wrote:I have never understood the argument that missing a turn can provide an advantage. I have heard it from many people including people that I greatly respect on this site. Perhaps in some extremely narrow circumstances, you can gain an advantage by waiting a turn and dropping a bigger stack on a partner. But I can't think of when this would actually yield a statistical advantage. When you miss a turn (depending on maps and settings), you miss an opportunity to attack, reinforce, card, and get auto-deploys. When you come back you are forced to dump any deferred troops on 1 territory. I have never used this strategy. I have never been in a situation where it would be beneficial. And I have never seen anybody use this strategy against me.

If I had to guess, I would say that some people who have played a ton of games have been in a situation where they just couldn't counter those extra troops. Whether those extra troops came the turn before (i.e. the person didn't miss) or the current turn, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. It's probably a combination of deferred troops dropping and then getting bad dice. Instead of seeing it as bad luck, these players blame the deferred troops. That's my guess anyway.


in a team game it can be a killer.
here's a current example right here:
hairy didn't miss on purpose but it still gave us a huge advantage when he came back, enough to turn the tide in our favor.

Game 10688199


I still don't see how those 4 troops benefited you more on the turn after than on the turn before. Had they been there the turn before (and you got the same dice), you could have taken the same territories a turn earlier. I don't know if there was a bonus at issue there, but you either could have collected the bonus or possibly broke one of the other team's bonuses a turn earlier.
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Re: Another Deferred Troops Option to Discuss, 'Auto-Pilot?'

Postby agentcom on Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:44 am

Pander88uk wrote:
L M S wrote:
agentcom wrote:I have never understood the argument that missing a turn can provide an advantage. I have heard it from many people including people that I greatly respect on this site. Perhaps in some extremely narrow circumstances, you can gain an advantage by waiting a turn and dropping a bigger stack on a partner. But I can't think of when this would actually yield a statistical advantage. When you miss a turn (depending on maps and settings), you miss an opportunity to attack, reinforce, card, and get auto-deploys. When you come back you are forced to dump any deferred troops on 1 territory. I have never used this strategy. I have never been in a situation where it would be beneficial. And I have never seen anybody use this strategy against me.

If I had to guess, I would say that some people who have played a ton of games have been in a situation where they just couldn't counter those extra troops. Whether those extra troops came the turn before (i.e. the person didn't miss) or the current turn, they wouldn't have been able to do anything. It's probably a combination of deferred troops dropping and then getting bad dice. Instead of seeing it as bad luck, these players blame the deferred troops. That's my guess anyway.


in a team game it can be a killer.
here's a current example right here:
hairy didn't miss on purpose but it still gave us a huge advantage when he came back, enough to turn the tide in our favor.

Game 10688199


How did I know that was going to be a map like PR? Happened to me before as well. Awhile ago but I remember it because I very rarely miss turns, and this wasn't on purpose. Again though it completely swung the game in our favour.
Game 5815311


Same comment as above. The winning team was fortunate enough with their dice to survive a missed turn. Of course, when the player came back and got the troops that he could have placed down the previous turn, the winning team was able to capitalize further on the good dice/fortune they had in previous turns.

It just seems to me that people think that a missed turn should result in a loss. They get upset when someone misses a turn and the team still wins the game. If that's what you want than suggest that CC boot players after 1 missed turn rather than 3. But I think the current system is already harsh enough on players that miss turns: they can't spread deployment, attack with deferred troops, get a card, reinforce or collect autodeploy for the turn that they missed. Bad luck can happen. Just because a team gets good enough dice/cards/drop to survive a missed turn, doesn't mean that deferred troops are the problem.

Further changes to deferred troops would almost ensure that a player who missed a turn lost the game. I wish someone would do an analysis among equally ranked teams of how often the team that misses the most turns loses the game. I am certain that a missed turn more often than not results in a loss.
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