[Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

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Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Postby stahrgazer on Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:53 pm

chapcrap wrote:
One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.


It seems fair that a "victory" that was gained through cheating should not count as a victory at all.

After a reasonable amount of time for the "appeals" process or while an appeal is pending, obviously, the stripping shouldn't occur. But once an appeal has been rejected or whatever term is used if the mods feel that they really did prove the case of cheating, then at least the "victories" gained in the proven games should be undone.

If that's too hard to figure out (how many specific games were probably won through cheating), then some set, predetermined, "global" percentage of games could be backed away. I'd suggest 25%. While a cheater may not have cheated on 25% of their games, stripping 25% of their victories is likely to lose them some of those medals and maybe the "excessive" nature of a 25% "victories reset" would be an additional discouragement from cheating.
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Cheater penalties

Postby Fuzzylogic99 on Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:48 pm

[

Concise description:
  • Add stripping cheaters of their points]

    Specifics/Details:
    • The obvious reason cheaters cheat is to get ahead.If a player is above 1200 points and is caught cheating they the mods have the option of stripping them of their points and making start back at 1200.This is only used if the player has been caught cheating two times or more ]


      How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
      • help reduce cheating and unfair play]
        [*gives the mods another tool to help deal with cheater[/list]
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Re: Cheater penalties

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:53 pm

As of now, only Admin's have this ability. And this is only going to hurt other users, because of instead of playing against someone ranked a Colonel/Brig, they are playing a Corporal. They end up losing a lot more points then normal.
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Re: Cheater penalties

Postby BoganGod on Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:57 pm

Good point TFO, have never thought about this issue from that perspective. A point strip could even benefit teammates of a point adjusted player.
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Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Postby Symmetry on Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:52 pm

stahrgazer wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.


It seems fair that a "victory" that was gained through cheating should not count as a victory at all.

After a reasonable amount of time for the "appeals" process or while an appeal is pending, obviously, the stripping shouldn't occur. But once an appeal has been rejected or whatever term is used if the mods feel that they really did prove the case of cheating, then at least the "victories" gained in the proven games should be undone.

If that's too hard to figure out (how many specific games were probably won through cheating), then some set, predetermined, "global" percentage of games could be backed away. I'd suggest 25%. While a cheater may not have cheated on 25% of their games, stripping 25% of their victories is likely to lose them some of those medals and maybe the "excessive" nature of a 25% "victories reset" would be an additional discouragement from cheating.


This does seem like a fair set of principles to move forward on. This thread has been in limbo for a while, so I'd like to hear if any objections have gone unadressed.
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Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Postby TheMissionary on Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:49 am

I didn't read everything. However, wouldn't it be reasonable to have a player start from scratch again if they have to get their premium stripped? Realistically, if someone gets premium stripped, they are doing something bad enough they should just get reset completely.
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Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Postby chapcrap on Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:02 pm

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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby Metsfanmax on Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:24 pm

This has been idling long enough, and I am ready to submit it under the following condition: anyone who is busted for cheating and banned/stripped of premium is also reset on medals. What is stopping me from submitting it is the technical limitation that chap mentioned. How do we get around this? I don't think stahr's solution is very clean.
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:56 am

Metsfanmax wrote:What is stopping me from submitting it is the technical limitation that chap mentioned.

Where is the post?
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:10 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=170171&start=240#p4051616
chapcrap wrote:
One small coding issue is that the bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game. So, it's actually not enough to strip a player of medals. You also have to strip him of victories or create a mechanism that causes the count to reset.
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:26 am

Metsfanmax wrote:This has been idling long enough, and I am ready to submit it under the following condition: anyone who is busted for cheating and banned/stripped of premium is also reset on medals. What is stopping me from submitting it is the technical limitation that chap mentioned. How do we get around this? I don't think stahr's solution is very clean.

Firstly, the way to implement it would be down to the coders so let them figure the way round what chap mentioned. For all we know, it could be done by a very simple line of code or a huge amount of work. We just do not know. But yes, stahrs idea, while it has merit probably is not the best way forward. I say it has some merit as it would allow everyone know the penalty from the get go. The longer you are on the site and the more wins you have, the less excuse you have, the harsher the penalty would/should be.

I would submit it with the understanding that this is the idea and what should be done is implement it as said but give stahrs idea as a back up.
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:07 am

No, I will not submit it without a concrete suggestion because whatever method is used to solve this problem will have a substantial impact on the resulting player. There is no way to just "get around" this with no side effects. We need to decide what should happen to the player afterward. Can they re-earn those medals? If so, do they need to start from square one, and all previous victories do not count?
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:00 am

Metsfanmax wrote:No, I will not submit it without a concrete suggestion because whatever method is used to solve this problem will have a substantial impact on the resulting player. There is no way to just "get around" this with no side effects. We need to decide what should happen to the player afterward. Can they re-earn those medals? If so, do they need to start from square one, and all previous victories do not count?

I thought that was the point. Strip the medals and then let them earn them back. Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. When I said let the coders figure it out, I meant that they should be the ones to work out how to implement it from the concrete suggestion we already had. So from what I gathered up to now is this, cheaters lose medals, they would then have to earn them back via the normal way, not through winning one game like chap said would happen.
chapcrap wrote:bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game.

This is what I meant by letting the coders figure out how to do it. Stripping wins or resetting the medal count for that player, I would not have a clue if either or both could be done. Can it be done for one medal or would it happen for all medals. Again, let the coders figure it out. I think the suggestion is solid.
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:08 am

koontz1973 wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:No, I will not submit it without a concrete suggestion because whatever method is used to solve this problem will have a substantial impact on the resulting player. There is no way to just "get around" this with no side effects. We need to decide what should happen to the player afterward. Can they re-earn those medals? If so, do they need to start from square one, and all previous victories do not count?

I thought that was the point. Strip the medals and then let them earn them back. Sorry, that was my misunderstanding. When I said let the coders figure it out, I meant that they should be the ones to work out how to implement it from the concrete suggestion we already had. So from what I gathered up to now is this, cheaters lose medals, they would then have to earn them back via the normal way, not through winning one game like chap said would happen.
chapcrap wrote:bronze, silver, gold, and soon to come diamond medals are all issued automatically based on statistical information. So, as an example, if you strip a players team medals, currently they will all come back once he wins another game.

This is what I meant by letting the coders figure out how to do it. Stripping wins or resetting the medal count for that player, I would not have a clue if either or both could be done. Can it be done for one medal or would it happen for all medals. Again, let the coders figure it out. I think the suggestion is solid.


Re: bold. The point I am making is that these are actually very different solutions. The most non-invasive solution is to simply remove the medals and start the effective medal count at zero from where they were at the time of the bust. This is algorithmically not the most trivial, but surely can be done. Stripping wins is actually a far more serious punishment (and this leaves aside the technological issues associated with 'deleting' game results). I wouldn't want to submit this with 'strip all wins' as a potential solution for the coders to implement, unless all involved view this as an acceptable approach. There have been concerns already in this thread about making sure the punishment is not so harsh that people will not want to come back to their account, and I fear that stripping all wins crosses that line.
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Re: [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of their medals

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:52 am

Then do as you said. Reset the medal count to 0 or to any number that it needs to be. The worst
that would happen is for the coders to say it cannot be done and send it back.
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