Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

[agentcom]

The idea of a point reset for cheaters has been presented a number of times. It makes sense as a punishment for the cheater, but the problem is that it has the same effect as point dumping and can punish other people on the site that would now be playing with a higher level player that has a low score.

There is a possible solution for this: Introducing a "cheating modifier" in the point calculation equation. This value would be added to the cheater's score during the calculations. The modifier would start at a very high value and decay linearly to zero over some time period (say, 6 months). I'd suggest that the modifier be initially set to the highest score on the site so that cheater initially wins and loses points as if he was the conqueror, but he has a very low score to show for it.

As an example, suppose a player, we'll call him X, was caught cheating. He had a score of 3000 when he was caught and his points were reset to 1000. As of today, the highest score on the site is 5018. X plays two games against a player (named Y) with 3000 points. He wins one and loses the other. Under normal circumstances, X would gain 20x(3000/1000) = 60 points from Y for the game he wins and lose 20x(1000/3000) = 7 points to Y for the game he lost. The net would be a gain for X of 53 points.
Now factor in the point modifier. X gains 20x(3000/(1000+5018)) = 10 points for the game he wins and loses 20x((1000+5018)/3000) = 40 points for the other. He has a net loss of 30 points.

Doc, +1 for the first paragraph of this post. I was about to say the same thing. I think because of this it is safe to say that the point reset is fairly well off the table right now.

That is an interesting fix to the problem, but I highly doubt that the score system will be changed in that way.

[SirSebstar]

mmm.
do i understand this correctly? Do you propose to add the cheater score to the current rank of the cheater? if so, for how long? because in terms of rank, he will lose more points then he can ever gain, so soon he will be in the lower 400.... either this stops him to play, or it will cause agrevation for other players.\please tell me where i am wrong

The idea of a point reset for cheaters has been presented a number of times. It makes sense as a punishment for the cheater, but the problem is that it has the same effect as point dumping and can punish other people on the site that would now be playing with a higher level player that has a low score.

There is a possible solution for this: Introducing a "cheating modifier" in the point calculation equation. This value would be added to the cheater's score during the calculations. The modifier would start at a very high value and decay linearly to zero over some time period (say, 6 months). I'd suggest that the modifier be initially set to the highest score on the site so that cheater initially wins and loses points as if he was the conqueror, but he has a very low score to show for it.

As an example, suppose a player, we'll call him X, was caught cheating. He had a score of 3000 when he was caught and his points were reset to 1000. As of today, the highest score on the site is 5018. X plays two games against a player (named Y) with 3000 points. He wins one and loses the other. Under normal circumstances, X would gain 20x(3000/1000) = 60 points from Y for the game he wins and lose 20x(1000/3000) = 7 points to Y for the game he lost. The net would be a gain for X of 53 points.
Now factor in the point modifier. X gains 20x(3000/(1000+5018)) = 10 points for the game he wins and loses 20x((1000+5018)/3000) = 40 points for the other. He has a net loss of 30 points.

[Woodruff]

mmm.
do i understand this correctly? Do you propose to add the cheater score to the current rank of the cheater? if so, for how long? because in terms of rank, he will lose more points then he can ever gain, so soon he will be in the lower 400.... either this stops him to play, or it will cause agrevation for other players.\please tell me where i am wrong

Makes sense. Some sort of proration would logically need to take place. But that could easily be coded to happen automatically. This really is (combined with your caveat here) an elegant and simple solution.

And then again, I can't help but also think..."f*ck the cheater". <smile>

[chapcrap]

Umm, what do you want discussed if you think there is already a concensus?

Kind of a strange question. I think the suggestion should be moved up a notch, given that there seems to be a consensus and no clear objections. Do you have an objection, or are you prolonging this for some other reason?

Full disclosure Chapcrap- do you have an ulterior motive? Have you ever been caught, warned or noted by the Cheating and Abuse team?

Full disclosure, I think you're a troll. I have no ulterior motive. I actually agree with the suggestion for the most part, so you're just being ridiculous. Let's respond to a few things.

1. Have I been warned? No
2. Have I been caught? No
3. Have I been noted? Yes, but that's pretty irrelevant and doesn't mean I was cheating at all...because I wasn't.

I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

In the report that got noted, all you did was troll there. You didn't initiate the report or add a thing to it. In fact you ignored specific facts and made posts that didn't make sense. So, the only thing you have to take credit for is being absurd. Mods aren't looking into me. They already did, decided I wasn't cheated and noted the report.

Here's what was driving my posts before you decided to bait me in your own thread:

• Cheating is stupid.
• Cheaters should be punished more.
• Thinking about why someone who doesn't play any games cares about medals.

[agentcom]

Chap,

This was already addressed. Please don't fuel the fire. Here it is again in case you missed it.

I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

But cheers, Pat, I disagree, but at least you posted a point that can be discussed.

Why do you think it would take too long?

Symmetry, I don't think anyone here cares to hear your characterization of other people's behavior, your belief on what the mods are doing or your take on chap's emotional state.

[Symmetry]

Umm, what do you want discussed if you think there is already a concensus?

Kind of a strange question. I think the suggestion should be moved up a notch, given that there seems to be a consensus and no clear objections. Do you have an objection, or are you prolonging this for some other reason?

Full disclosure Chapcrap- do you have an ulterior motive? Have you ever been caught, warned or noted by the Cheating and Abuse team?

Full disclosure, I think you're a troll. I have no ulterior motive. I actually agree with the suggestion for the most part, so you're just being ridiculous. Let's respond to a few things.

1. Have I been warned? No
2. Have I been caught? No
3. Have I been noted? Yes, but that's pretty irrelevant and doesn't mean I was cheating at all...because I wasn't.

I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

In the report that got noted, all you did was troll there. You didn't initiate the report or add a thing to it. In fact you ignored specific facts and made posts that didn't make sense. So, the only thing you have to take credit for is being absurd. Mods aren't looking into me. They already did, decided I wasn't cheated and noted the report.

Here's what was driving my posts before you decided to bait me in your own thread:

• Cheating is stupid.
• Cheaters should be punished more.
• Thinking about why someone who doesn't play any games cares about medals.

Fair enough, and I'm not a troll. I kind of suspected that you weren't being totally honest in the thread. At least I'm no more a troll than you, and of course you were noted by the mods for dodgy behaviour (I wasn't the only poster to find your actions sus- obviously the other mods did too).

But, yeah, thanks for at least the full disclosure, after, what 13 pages?

So, anyway, your trolling me, and me being very doubtful of your character... do you have anything to add to the suggestion?

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

[jghost7]

Fair enough, and I'm not a troll.

Well, your actions at times suggests otherwise. This was addressed on both ends by Agentcom and could have been dropped there.

I kind of suspected that you weren't being totally honest in the thread. At least I'm no more a troll than you, and of course you were noted by the mods for dodgy behaviour (I wasn't the only poster to find your actions sus- obviously the other mods did too).

Irrelevant and a troll/bait. Also as an aside, noted, is not a guilty verdict.

But, yeah, thanks for at least the full disclosure, after, what 13 pages?

No 'disclosure' is necessary or warranted. Quit acting like he owes you any explanation or that it affects the validity of his thoughts on the suggestion in any way.

So, anyway, your trolling me,

So, you go and troll back? After it was checked by Agentcom...?

and me being very doubtful of your character...

Irrelevant and also trolling/baiting. Who really cares about your thoughts of his character?

do you have anything to add to the suggestion?

A better question, Do you? Lets go and count... You have approximately 38 useless noncontributing posts vs. approximately 8(counting the OP) that could possibly seem remotely like you tried to add something. You have been posting to keep the topic active I think. You rarely add, but want to try to roll over anyone who does not necessarily agree. It really is funny.

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

This is a dumb statement.

Thanks,

J

[Symmetry]

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

This is a dumb statement.

Thanks,

J

Not really. You've done your best to attack me, rather than offer criticism of the suggestion. Your focus is, as per the above posts, suggests that you don't like me.

That's fair, although I would say that you could vent the bile you have toward me in the off topics forum. So, let's have a hypothetical- you want to post a legitimate criticism of the suggestion as it stands-

What would you say if you had to ignore your anger?

[jghost7]

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

This is a dumb statement.

Thanks,

J

Not really. You've done your best to attack me, rather than offer criticism of the suggestion. Your focus is, as per the above posts, suggests that you don't like me.

That's fair, although I would say that you could vent the bile you have toward me in the off topics forum. So, let's have a hypothetical- you want to post a legitimate criticism of the suggestion as it stands-

What would you say if you had to ignore your anger?

LOL, Ah, you purposely misunderstand or ignore the truth. I have no anger or dislike towards you, but I do oppose the suggestion as it stands.

I do harbor though, some minor frustration at your posts. You obviously ignore or use other methods of passing opposing view of the suggestion without offering any substantial debate or reasoning for your posts. You criticize others posts, or ask for others opinions without adding anything constructive yourself. As I stated before, you have posted in here somewhere around 46 posts, yet somehow only 8 including the OP, have made any minor attempt to add to the discussion.
You ask for me to share my legitimate criticisms of the suggestion, but I have and yet refuse to read or address them even after I conveniently repost it or post links to them.

I will not rise to your trolling though. I have to assume that is what it is because no one is really that thick.
I will also not retype my criticisms and objections until you or someone else wishes to actually address them. I could even add more, but there is no need to as long as you continue to post as you do. I have reposted them as well as giving links to them. Go back and look, or not. When you do read them, then we can go from there.

Thanks,

J

[chapcrap]

Umm, what do you want discussed if you think there is already a concensus?

Kind of a strange question. I think the suggestion should be moved up a notch, given that there seems to be a consensus and no clear objections. Do you have an objection, or are you prolonging this for some other reason?

Full disclosure Chapcrap- do you have an ulterior motive? Have you ever been caught, warned or noted by the Cheating and Abuse team?

Full disclosure, I think you're a troll. I have no ulterior motive. I actually agree with the suggestion for the most part, so you're just being ridiculous. Let's respond to a few things.

1. Have I been warned? No
2. Have I been caught? No
3. Have I been noted? Yes, but that's pretty irrelevant and doesn't mean I was cheating at all...because I wasn't.

I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

In the report that got noted, all you did was troll there. You didn't initiate the report or add a thing to it. In fact you ignored specific facts and made posts that didn't make sense. So, the only thing you have to take credit for is being absurd. Mods aren't looking into me. They already did, decided I wasn't cheated and noted the report.

Here's what was driving my posts before you decided to bait me in your own thread:

• Cheating is stupid.
• Cheaters should be punished more.
• Thinking about why someone who doesn't play any games cares about medals.

Fair enough, and I'm not a troll. I kind of suspected that you weren't being totally honest in the thread. At least I'm no more a troll than you, and of course you were noted by the mods for dodgy behaviour (I wasn't the only poster to find your actions sus- obviously the other mods did too).

But, yeah, thanks for at least the full disclosure, after, what 13 pages?

So, anyway, your trolling me, and me being very doubtful of your character... do you have anything to add to the suggestion?

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

I already said I agreed with the suggestion, dummy. And you can't say after 13 pages anyway. The C&A report that you trolled was in the middle of this suggestion. This thread started on May 2. That report was on August 2, 3 months later. That means it happened in the middle of page 10 when you couldn't figure out what jghost was saying. Grow a brain.

How about this, respond to things about this thread and quit trying to say I'm a cheater when I'm not?

[The Voice]

This isn't going anywhere good

[chapcrap]

This isn't going anywhere good

Yeah...

Bottom line, I'm not a cheater. I'm in favor of punishing cheaters by stripping medals. I'm done here.

[agentcom]

This isn't going anywhere good

Yep. Locked for a bit.

[agentcom]

This isn't going anywhere good

Yep. Locked for a bit.

In fact, I don't think this is going anywhere at all. At least not with the current flag bearer. Symmetry, this is the second time that you've gotten this post locked. I don't see anything else to do but move this to rejected.

There are people who agree with you and this suggestion. If any of those people wish to repost this suggestion AND comb through this thread and fairly (giving weight to both sides of the argument) quote and post a summary of the meaningful contributions, then feel free and I will sticky it.

I realize this is an unorthodox solution, but I think the current situation is rather unique and, more importantly, not working.

In the meantime, I will leave this stickied and locked for a period of time to give anyone who wants to repost it time to gather their thoughts.

I would recommend that any such user post the suggestion in the first post and summarize/quote the commentary in a second post.

Anyone who wants to PM me about this, feel free to do so. Especially anyone who wants to salvage this suggestion. If more than one person wants to do it, I'll put you guys in touch with each other.

[agentcom]

I believe that I have given ample opportunity for someone to come forward, and no one has. This was a fair opportunity for someone who is either for or against the suggestion to take charge of the suggestion and facilitate debate. Not one user besides Symmetry has shown that sort of interest.

This being the case, I have a hard time believing that there are strong proponents of either side of the debate (except Symmetry). In theory, this means that it should be easy for those involved to participate dispassionately in any further debate. So, keep it civil and on-topic.

UNLOCKED.