## [Rules/MED] Cheaters should be stripped of medals [Rejected]

Suggestions that have not stood up to community review.

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Doc_Brown wrote:The idea of a point reset for cheaters has been presented a number of times. It makes sense as a punishment for the cheater, but the problem is that it has the same effect as point dumping and can punish other people on the site that would now be playing with a higher level player that has a low score.

There is a possible solution for this: Introducing a "cheating modifier" in the point calculation equation. This value would be added to the cheater's score during the calculations. The modifier would start at a very high value and decay linearly to zero over some time period (say, 6 months). I'd suggest that the modifier be initially set to the highest score on the site so that cheater initially wins and loses points as if he was the conqueror, but he has a very low score to show for it.

As an example, suppose a player, we'll call him X, was caught cheating. He had a score of 3000 when he was caught and his points were reset to 1000. As of today, the highest score on the site is 5018. X plays two games against a player (named Y) with 3000 points. He wins one and loses the other. Under normal circumstances, X would gain 20x(3000/1000) = 60 points from Y for the game he wins and lose 20x(1000/3000) = 7 points to Y for the game he lost. The net would be a gain for X of 53 points.
Now factor in the point modifier. X gains 20x(3000/(1000+5018)) = 10 points for the game he wins and loses 20x((1000+5018)/3000) = 40 points for the other. He has a net loss of 30 points.

Doc, +1 for the first paragraph of this post. I was about to say the same thing. I think because of this it is safe to say that the point reset is fairly well off the table right now.

That is an interesting fix to the problem, but I highly doubt that the score system will be changed in that way.

agentcom

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

mmm.
do i understand this correctly? Do you propose to add the cheater score to the current rank of the cheater? if so, for how long? because in terms of rank, he will lose more points then he can ever gain, so soon he will be in the lower 400.... either this stops him to play, or it will cause agrevation for other players.\please tell me where i am wrong

Doc_Brown wrote:The idea of a point reset for cheaters has been presented a number of times. It makes sense as a punishment for the cheater, but the problem is that it has the same effect as point dumping and can punish other people on the site that would now be playing with a higher level player that has a low score.

There is a possible solution for this: Introducing a "cheating modifier" in the point calculation equation. This value would be added to the cheater's score during the calculations. The modifier would start at a very high value and decay linearly to zero over some time period (say, 6 months). I'd suggest that the modifier be initially set to the highest score on the site so that cheater initially wins and loses points as if he was the conqueror, but he has a very low score to show for it.

As an example, suppose a player, we'll call him X, was caught cheating. He had a score of 3000 when he was caught and his points were reset to 1000. As of today, the highest score on the site is 5018. X plays two games against a player (named Y) with 3000 points. He wins one and loses the other. Under normal circumstances, X would gain 20x(3000/1000) = 60 points from Y for the game he wins and lose 20x(1000/3000) = 7 points to Y for the game he lost. The net would be a gain for X of 53 points.
Now factor in the point modifier. X gains 20x(3000/(1000+5018)) = 10 points for the game he wins and loses 20x((1000+5018)/3000) = 40 points for the other. He has a net loss of 30 points.

SirSebstar

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

SirSebstar wrote:mmm.
do i understand this correctly? Do you propose to add the cheater score to the current rank of the cheater? if so, for how long? because in terms of rank, he will lose more points then he can ever gain, so soon he will be in the lower 400.... either this stops him to play, or it will cause agrevation for other players.\please tell me where i am wrong

Makes sense. Some sort of proration would logically need to take place. But that could easily be coded to happen automatically. This really is (combined with your caveat here) an elegant and simple solution.

And then again, I can't help but also think..."f*ck the cheater". <smile>
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Woodruff

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Symmetry wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Umm, what do you want discussed if you think there is already a concensus?

Kind of a strange question. I think the suggestion should be moved up a notch, given that there seems to be a consensus and no clear objections. Do you have an objection, or are you prolonging this for some other reason?

Full disclosure Chapcrap- do you have an ulterior motive? Have you ever been caught, warned or noted by the Cheating and Abuse team?

Full disclosure, I think you're a troll. I have no ulterior motive. I actually agree with the suggestion for the most part, so you're just being ridiculous. Let's respond to a few things.
1. Have I been warned? No
2. Have I been caught? No
3. Have I been noted? Yes, but that's pretty irrelevant and doesn't mean I was cheating at all...because I wasn't.

Symmetry wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

In the report that got noted, all you did was troll there. You didn't initiate the report or add a thing to it. In fact you ignored specific facts and made posts that didn't make sense. So, the only thing you have to take credit for is being absurd. Mods aren't looking into me. They already did, decided I wasn't cheated and noted the report.

Here's what was driving my posts before you decided to bait me in your own thread:
• Cheating is stupid.
• Cheaters should be punished more.
• Thinking about why someone who doesn't play any games cares about medals.

chapcrap

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Chap,

This was already addressed. Please don't fuel the fire. Here it is again in case you missed it.

agentcom wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

But cheers, Pat, I disagree, but at least you posted a point that can be discussed.

Why do you think it would take too long?

Symmetry, I don't think anyone here cares to hear your characterization of other people's behavior, your belief on what the mods are doing or your take on chap's emotional state.

agentcom

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

chapcrap wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Umm, what do you want discussed if you think there is already a concensus?

Kind of a strange question. I think the suggestion should be moved up a notch, given that there seems to be a consensus and no clear objections. Do you have an objection, or are you prolonging this for some other reason?

Full disclosure Chapcrap- do you have an ulterior motive? Have you ever been caught, warned or noted by the Cheating and Abuse team?

Full disclosure, I think you're a troll. I have no ulterior motive. I actually agree with the suggestion for the most part, so you're just being ridiculous. Let's respond to a few things.
1. Have I been warned? No
2. Have I been caught? No
3. Have I been noted? Yes, but that's pretty irrelevant and doesn't mean I was cheating at all...because I wasn't.

Symmetry wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

In the report that got noted, all you did was troll there. You didn't initiate the report or add a thing to it. In fact you ignored specific facts and made posts that didn't make sense. So, the only thing you have to take credit for is being absurd. Mods aren't looking into me. They already did, decided I wasn't cheated and noted the report.

Here's what was driving my posts before you decided to bait me in your own thread:
• Cheating is stupid.
• Cheaters should be punished more.
• Thinking about why someone who doesn't play any games cares about medals.

Fair enough, and I'm not a troll. I kind of suspected that you weren't being totally honest in the thread. At least I'm no more a troll than you, and of course you were noted by the mods for dodgy behaviour (I wasn't the only poster to find your actions sus- obviously the other mods did too).

But, yeah, thanks for at least the full disclosure, after, what 13 pages?

So, anyway, your trolling me, and me being very doubtful of your character... do you have anything to add to the suggestion?

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

Symmetry

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Symmetry wrote:
Fair enough, and I'm not a troll.

Well, your actions at times suggests otherwise. This was addressed on both ends by Agentcom and could have been dropped there.

Symmetry wrote:I kind of suspected that you weren't being totally honest in the thread. At least I'm no more a troll than you, and of course you were noted by the mods for dodgy behaviour (I wasn't the only poster to find your actions sus- obviously the other mods did too).

Irrelevant and a troll/bait. Also as an aside, noted, is not a guilty verdict.

Symmetry wrote:But, yeah, thanks for at least the full disclosure, after, what 13 pages?

No 'disclosure' is necessary or warranted. Quit acting like he owes you any explanation or that it affects the validity of his thoughts on the suggestion in any way.

Symmetry wrote:So, anyway, your trolling me,

So, you go and troll back? After it was checked by Agentcom...?

Symmetry wrote:and me being very doubtful of your character...

Irrelevant and also trolling/baiting. Who really cares about your thoughts of his character?

Symmetry wrote:do you have anything to add to the suggestion?

A better question, Do you? Lets go and count... You have approximately 38 useless noncontributing posts vs. approximately 8(counting the OP) that could possibly seem remotely like you tried to add something. You have been posting to keep the topic active I think. You rarely add, but want to try to roll over anyone who does not necessarily agree. It really is funny.

Symmetry wrote:Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

This is a dumb statement.

Thanks,

J

jghost7

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

jghost7 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

This is a dumb statement.

Thanks,

J

Not really. You've done your best to attack me, rather than offer criticism of the suggestion. Your focus is, as per the above posts, suggests that you don't like me.

That's fair, although I would say that you could vent the bile you have toward me in the off topics forum. So, let's have a hypothetical- you want to post a legitimate criticism of the suggestion as it stands-

Symmetry

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Symmetry wrote:
jghost7 wrote:
Symmetry wrote:Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

This is a dumb statement.

Thanks,

J

Not really. You've done your best to attack me, rather than offer criticism of the suggestion. Your focus is, as per the above posts, suggests that you don't like me.

That's fair, although I would say that you could vent the bile you have toward me in the off topics forum. So, let's have a hypothetical- you want to post a legitimate criticism of the suggestion as it stands-

LOL, Ah, you purposely misunderstand or ignore the truth. I have no anger or dislike towards you, but I do oppose the suggestion as it stands.

I do harbor though, some minor frustration at your posts. You obviously ignore or use other methods of passing opposing view of the suggestion without offering any substantial debate or reasoning for your posts. You criticize others posts, or ask for others opinions without adding anything constructive yourself. As I stated before, you have posted in here somewhere around 46 posts, yet somehow only 8 including the OP, have made any minor attempt to add to the discussion.
You ask for me to share my legitimate criticisms of the suggestion, but I have and yet refuse to read or address them even after I conveniently repost it or post links to them.

I will not rise to your trolling though. I have to assume that is what it is because no one is really that thick.
I will also not retype my criticisms and objections until you or someone else wishes to actually address them. I could even add more, but there is no need to as long as you continue to post as you do. I have reposted them as well as giving links to them. Go back and look, or not. When you do read them, then we can go from there.

Thanks,

J

jghost7

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Symmetry wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
Symmetry wrote:
chapcrap wrote:Umm, what do you want discussed if you think there is already a concensus?

Kind of a strange question. I think the suggestion should be moved up a notch, given that there seems to be a consensus and no clear objections. Do you have an objection, or are you prolonging this for some other reason?

Full disclosure Chapcrap- do you have an ulterior motive? Have you ever been caught, warned or noted by the Cheating and Abuse team?

Full disclosure, I think you're a troll. I have no ulterior motive. I actually agree with the suggestion for the most part, so you're just being ridiculous. Let's respond to a few things.
1. Have I been warned? No
2. Have I been caught? No
3. Have I been noted? Yes, but that's pretty irrelevant and doesn't mean I was cheating at all...because I wasn't.

Symmetry wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:I object to this. Not a cheater. Have no reason to worry. Just think it's going to take a lot of time to research which medals were earned while cheating and which weren't.

Fair enough- i was being a bit sneaky on that and directing the post toward Chappy- ChapCrap got noted for some very sus behaviour, and I was involved in pointing it out. He's currently under notice from the mods, and he's not happy that people are watching his behaviour.

That's me coming clean on that post. I hope ChapCrap is able to talk about what he has to gain or lose, or simply if he's able to come clean about what motivates his posts.

In the report that got noted, all you did was troll there. You didn't initiate the report or add a thing to it. In fact you ignored specific facts and made posts that didn't make sense. So, the only thing you have to take credit for is being absurd. Mods aren't looking into me. They already did, decided I wasn't cheated and noted the report.

Here's what was driving my posts before you decided to bait me in your own thread:
• Cheating is stupid.
• Cheaters should be punished more.
• Thinking about why someone who doesn't play any games cares about medals.

Fair enough, and I'm not a troll. I kind of suspected that you weren't being totally honest in the thread. At least I'm no more a troll than you, and of course you were noted by the mods for dodgy behaviour (I wasn't the only poster to find your actions sus- obviously the other mods did too).

But, yeah, thanks for at least the full disclosure, after, what 13 pages?

So, anyway, your trolling me, and me being very doubtful of your character... do you have anything to add to the suggestion?

Would it have been a good idea if someone else had posted it?

I already said I agreed with the suggestion, dummy. And you can't say after 13 pages anyway. The C&A report that you trolled was in the middle of this suggestion. This thread started on May 2. That report was on August 2, 3 months later. That means it happened in the middle of page 10 when you couldn't figure out what jghost was saying. Grow a brain.

chapcrap

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

This isn't going anywhere good

The Voice

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

The Voice wrote:This isn't going anywhere good

Yeah...

Bottom line, I'm not a cheater. I'm in favor of punishing cheaters by stripping medals. I'm done here.

chapcrap

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

The Voice wrote:This isn't going anywhere good

Yep. Locked for a bit.

agentcom

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

agentcom wrote:
The Voice wrote:This isn't going anywhere good

Yep. Locked for a bit.

In fact, I don't think this is going anywhere at all. At least not with the current flag bearer. Symmetry, this is the second time that you've gotten this post locked. I don't see anything else to do but move this to rejected.

There are people who agree with you and this suggestion. If any of those people wish to repost this suggestion AND comb through this thread and fairly (giving weight to both sides of the argument) quote and post a summary of the meaningful contributions, then feel free and I will sticky it.

I realize this is an unorthodox solution, but I think the current situation is rather unique and, more importantly, not working.

In the meantime, I will leave this stickied and locked for a period of time to give anyone who wants to repost it time to gather their thoughts.

I would recommend that any such user post the suggestion in the first post and summarize/quote the commentary in a second post.

Anyone who wants to PM me about this, feel free to do so. Especially anyone who wants to salvage this suggestion. If more than one person wants to do it, I'll put you guys in touch with each other.

agentcom

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

I believe that I have given ample opportunity for someone to come forward, and no one has. This was a fair opportunity for someone who is either for or against the suggestion to take charge of the suggestion and facilitate debate. Not one user besides Symmetry has shown that sort of interest.

This being the case, I have a hard time believing that there are strong proponents of either side of the debate (except Symmetry). In theory, this means that it should be easy for those involved to participate dispassionately in any further debate. So, keep it civil and on-topic.

UNLOCKED.

agentcom

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

I'm going to leave this thread alone now. I think that the general support for the idea got drowned out due to my presence. Hopefully leaving the thread thread to develop on its own will evoke rational criticism of the idea without the ad homs and slanging matches that I have too readily engaged in.

I hope this idea gets discussed on its own merits as a legitimate suggestion, and that those who disliked me personally having suggested it will engage more dispassionately and with greater reason.

Sym

Symmetry

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Is stripping of medals going to stop people from creating additional accounts? Will it be a deterrent?

My opinion is no it will not be a deterrent. Many multi's are created to get around the 4 game limit.

I personally don't concern myself with medals. I have medals and points but I don't play for them. It doesn't matter to me if stripping medals would be an added punishment.

Evil Semp
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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

I think this would be particularly important regarding Conqueror medals, if it were instated. I think that proven cheaters should get a perma-ban with no option to start another account. Do not pass go, do not collect \$200.

Funkyterrance

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

I'm not sure how this stands with the mods at the mo, but it kind of looks like most folks have said what they want to say. My take is, of course, that it seems like a good idea. I'm not sure if anyone else has input to give, but do so if you have.

Symmetry

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Evil Semp wrote:Is stripping of medals going to stop people from creating additional accounts? Will it be a deterrent?

My opinion is no it will not be a deterrent. Many multi's are created to get around the 4 game limit.

I personally don't concern myself with medals. I have medals and points but I don't play for them. It doesn't matter to me if stripping medals would be an added punishment.

I don't know if this will stop people from making more accounts but I also think this is beside the point. What's fair is fair and what's right is right. If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.

Funkyterrance

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.

That's probably not true, but I don't have a problem with some kind of punishment here.

chapcrap

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

chapcrap wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:If you are caught cheating it's safe to assume that you didn't earn your medals in the first place.

That's probably not true, but I don't have a problem with some kind of punishment here.

My feelings are that if you end up a cheater you aren't deserving of any medals, you're a disgrace. Someone with this mindset can't earn a medal. If you think that medals are just a symbol of winning x number of games on x setting then sure, I agree with you.
I think a more appropriate punishment would be to have a big label below your username, sort of like mods, that says in big red letters: CHEATER. That way you could just write them off as bullshitters and scum. I think it's odd how people can sort of wear off a bad rep on here, in the real military it's not like that at all. In rl you are forever marked, as it should be.

Funkyterrance

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

Evil Semp wrote:Is stripping of medals going to stop people from creating additional accounts? Will it be a deterrent?
My opinion is no it will not be a deterrent. Many multi's are created to get around the 4 game limit.
I personally don't concern myself with medals. I have medals and points but I don't play for them. It doesn't matter to me if stripping medals would be an added punishment.

Stripping medals is not going to stop everyone from creating additional accounts, we can agree on that.

Would it be a deterrent? Yes. Not for those creating multis to get around the 4 game limit, but for those that create multis to get away from their score history, or to increase the win rates for a main account or accounts, yes, "no honors" (no medals) would be a deterrent.

It would do something else, as well.

Many clans require a minimum set of medals in candidates to their ranks. Clans may not know the case history of every player, but they'd be able to see someone has no medals without a lot of research. The idea someone else had, "cheater" could work, too. Maybe that's the only medal they get, a big ugly whatever "medal" that brands them as a cheater and makes it very easy for respectable clans to avoid accidentally inviting one of "them" into their ranks.

stahrgazer

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

I think we can safely say that CC will not be handing out "cheater" medals. Let's not start up that discussion.

agentcom

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### Re: Cheaters should be stripped of their medals Updated

agentcom wrote:I think we can safely say that CC will not be handing out "cheater" medals. Let's not start up that discussion.

Fine, then let me re-emphasize my response as to whether stripping someone of medals would be a deterrent - yes, not for those doing it to play extra games as a freemie, but for those doing it to make a "main" account look better, it could be.

Many clans require a minimum set of medals in candidates to their ranks. Clans may not know the case history of every player, but they'd be able to see someone has no medals without a lot of research - and thus, know to deny that player entry to their ranks.

stahrgazer

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