Suggestion: Fog Confirmation Round

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Re: Round 1 Ready Button (For Fog Games)

Postby ViperOverLord on Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:00 pm

SirSebstar wrote:on the other hand, how can this affect freestyle games and will this not just cause more delay when players deadbeat?
Also, this setting shold not be allowed for nr's. for obvious reasons...

other then that, yea i can see its use


Deadbeating would cost a player time whether it was standard or freestyle. But it's a small price to pay to eliminate an otherwise huge headache.
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Re: Round 1 Ready Button (For Fog Games)

Postby ViperOverLord on Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:02 pm

While I'm thinking about it - There are a significant segment of players that only log in once per day. The idea of waiting 12 hours for a player to look at a map is often an undue burden. It is also often a burden that he/she cannot facilitate.
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Re: Round 1 Ready Button (For Fog Games)

Postby blakebowling on Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:03 pm

Again, this is one of those things I only see practical on a speed setting.
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Re: Round 1 Ready Button (For Fog Games)

Postby ViperOverLord on Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:09 am

blakebowling wrote:Again, this is one of those things I only see practical on a speed setting.


I don't see how this is not practical? And I don't know why it would be practical for speed and not for the 24-hour setting.
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Activate Button for Fog games

Postby kjg21 on Tue May 22, 2012 10:19 pm

Concise description:
Add an "Activate Game" button once all players have joined a Fog game. The player/team who gets to start the game would not be able to do so until the other player/team has had a chance to view the drop and clicks the "Activate Game" button.

Specifics/Details:
1) I would propose a 12 hour time limit for this period.
2) The "Activate Game" button could exist where the "Begin Turn" currently does.
3) The "Waiting for Opponent to Begin" icon already exists and would work perfectly.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
1) It would eliminate any confusion (during tournaments especially) as to when the "Fog Rule" is in effect.
2) It would eliminate the need for people to run down the invitation time in an attempt to be the last to join.
3) It would prevent the people who are running down the invitation time and then forget to join from missing the invitation.

One drawback is that certain maps don't benefit from the Fog Rule (ie. Feudal War, Clandemonium, etc.). I'm not sure if the button could be selective in these situation. Ideas are welcome!

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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby greenoaks on Tue May 22, 2012 11:01 pm

i don't play with the fog rule and have no use for this. i feel all things even out in the end and am not interested in my turns being delayed because the other side hasn't seen the drop.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby chapcrap on Wed May 23, 2012 3:35 am

greenoaks wrote:i don't play with the fog rule and have no use for this. i feel all things even out in the end and am not interested in my turns being delayed because the other side hasn't seen the drop.

This is how I feel mostly. But, I don't have a huge problem with the suggestion. I just think people make too big a deal of it in general.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby agentcom on Wed May 23, 2012 2:02 pm

I agree with this suggestion. I think it's a great way of solving the "fog problem" using (mostly) things that are already available on the site. My one question would be how this would affect manual troop deployments. Currently the deploy phase is "Round 1" (which I don't really like). In a perfect world, I'd like to see manual deployment and "Activation" happen in Round 0. But even if that is not addressed, I would favor this just to take care of 95% of the fog problems (i.e. every game except manual deployment).

As to the comments above: I don't think this is overblown. Even if there are just a couple games out of 100 in which this makes a difference, it still may make a difference to high ranked players that depend on a certain number of wins to keep their ranks. In most games, the dice and drop will matter more than the ability to see a couple extra territs. But there are quite a few games, especially on big maps, where an opponent can block you from seeing a critical territory in that first turn.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby IanG7 on Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:04 pm

I agree with this idea as well. I find it very classless when opponents join a game and start right away and I rate them accordingly. Many times you can figure out what happened, sure, but there are other times when that is impossible and this would address that.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby NoSurvivors on Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:02 pm

Although I dont play useing the fog rule because not too many people I have played ever use it (i learned this rule against a really nice guy who was upset that i took my turn, about a month ago), I wouldn't mind seeing this happen. Like the posters above said, eliminates confusion.

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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby SaviorShot on Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:34 pm

This would be great IMO. Everyone gets to see the drop b4 the game starts. Making things fair. Good idea, I support this
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:32 pm

I like this idea but 12 hours is tough because not everyone checks the site every 12 hours so some players will still complain that they are getting the short end on the deal. If possible, one addition would be that they player that joins last should not be required to hit the activate game button.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby Jippd on Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:53 am

You can add a round to the beginning of every fog game. It would be "freestyle" for the first round only. Once everyone clicks the button then it jumps to the first player and play continues on regularly (freestyle/sequential).

Harder to code but it would give everyone the length of one turn cycle to view the map. There would be 1 round of "24 hours/5/4/3/2/1 minutes" being added to a fog game before the actual start of round 1. If everyone clicks end turn or "activate game" then that confirms they saw the map. Once everyone has clicked it then it jumps to the player that starts the game and round 1 begins. If everyone does not click it it times out and round 1 will start after the length of one turn cycle.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby ThrushAAX on Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:19 am

This is a great suggestion, was actually thinking of something similar myself. I think it should be for all games. With a countdown of the actual round time not 12 hours or anything like that.

It would be helpful to get the "game is on" email when the game is filled not when its my first turn. Especially for team games when you may want to start saying something in chat before its your first turn.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby squishyg on Fri Jun 15, 2012 2:03 pm

No. If you want to see the board, don't play fog.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 6:46 pm

squishyg wrote:No. If you want to see the board, don't play fog.


It's not seeing the whole board, just what the first player gets to see.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby squishyg on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:23 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
squishyg wrote:No. If you want to see the board, don't play fog.


It's not seeing the whole board, just what the first player gets to see.


Then don't play fog. There's often an inherent benefit in going first.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby patrickaa317 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:38 pm

squishyg wrote:
patrickaa317 wrote:
squishyg wrote:No. If you want to see the board, don't play fog.


It's not seeing the whole board, just what the first player gets to see.


Then don't play fog. There's often an inherent benefit in going first.


With fog, the benefit of going first is two fold, especially if you are last to join.

I'm not a big proponent of this as I feel there are other things that should have priority but this would make things more balanced.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby dparks240 on Fri Jun 15, 2012 11:51 pm

I would support this suggestion; however, I would rather this be an check box option with initial troops/special game play. That being said, i think there are more important suggestions/improvements that would take precedence over this.

Bring on the poll
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby swimmerdude99 on Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:30 am

I would say it shouldn't be demanded, but be an option when creating a game to have "activation" stage, which would just be a 24 hour turn people can see the board, OR you could make it the 12 hour fog rule and that people who want to can use that! :)
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby squishyg on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:32 pm

Or people could just play sunny games.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby Jippd on Sat Jun 16, 2012 1:42 pm

squishyg wrote:Or people could just play sunny games.


There are a lot of people in more competitive clans that like playing fog but like to be able to see the board before first turn.

It is about being 'fair' in my opinion.

People that join foggy games and take first turn real quick to take advantage are players that need to take cheap advantages.

You can't just say 'play sunny' they are not the same game style and there is no reason if people want a game option for fog to be allowed to be seen that it can't exist.

After all using your line of reasoning if people made a suggestion for shorter speed games (1-4 minute rounds) you would probably just say "play the five minute and be happy". The fact is though that people like to have different options and styles of game play and having this as an option helps improve fog game play IMO.

As I said before it seems to be a more 'competitive' clan player type of a thing to enjoy/like/respect the fog rule so it may not be something that you have experienced much yet.

If you are truly good enough to beat another team you shouldn't need to take a turn real quick joining the game second and greatly hurting your opponents odds of knowing what you did.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby squishyg on Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:39 pm

Then play speed fog.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby patrickaa317 on Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:44 pm

squishyg wrote:Then play speed fog.


Why are you so against this and continue to tell others to deal with it as it stands? If you don't like the thought of the option getting implemented, you can just close your eyes when you hit the Activate button so that you don't get a fair chance to see the board.
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Re: Activate Button for Fog games

Postby squishyg on Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:13 pm

patrickaa317 wrote:
squishyg wrote:Then play speed fog.


Why are you so against this and continue to tell others to deal with it as it stands? If you don't like the thought of the option getting implemented, you can just close your eyes when you hit the Activate button so that you don't get a fair chance to see the board.


I've gone into this at length in past threads, but I have several issues with the fog rule. My main objection as it pertains to this suggestion is that there is an inherent element of chance to this game. You will not always get to go first. Your opponent may get a bonus in the drop. Green could be your unlucky color. The dice suck. The sun was in your eyes.

In addition, if I hear one more person cry about how they didn't get a snapshot of the board I'm going to fling that jar of placenta I always have waiting. If you use BOB, snapshots, or any other game enhancing add-on, you have no right to call me a poor sport or accuse me of having an unfair advantage. I will sign on and take my turn as I damn well please. This is a casual site. The idea that missing one viewing of the board will ruin the game for you is unfathomable to me.
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Depends on what metric you use...
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