"Blindfold" or "Fog-of-Player"

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"Blindfold" or "Fog-of-Player"

Postby bbqpenguin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:53 pm

option for Fog-of-Player games

Specifics:
well it is exactly what is sounds like; similar to fog of war, where nonadjacent terries are unknown to the player. instead, the player name, rank, feedback, and any other information that could give away his or her identity is hidden. every player would simply be known as a color, such as pink, red, etc. (specifics would have to be worked out to deal with those epic teal vs. cyan debates). like FOW game, anonymity would be lifted at the end of the game and the identities of the players revealed.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:
  • this idea was actually inspired by this thread.http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=49668&start=15. it was noticed that in some games, especially terminator games, high-ranked players were specifically preyed upon because of the high reward for eliminating them. hiding the identities of the players makes everyone an even target
  • this could also be an interesting add-on for non-terminator games, potentially changing gameplay. if for nothing else, it's just "something new" and could change diplomacy and they way people plan and execute their strategies in a given game
  • could decrease high vs low-rank disparity in team games; you never know if you'll be on a team with the conquerer or a coupla cooks-or both
  • as tim says below, it would also prevent higher ranked players from specifically targeting lower ranked player in order to minimize their point losses in standard games
  • as bob points out, this could also be useful as an option in tourneys with multiple clans in them, to avoid ganging up on whichever clan happens to be winning (conversly, ganging up could be encouraged simply by not including FOP)

p.s. i will from now on use "FOP" in my posts to represent this idea, at least until something more clever comes up




Problems and Solutions:
  • it would be conceivably possible to ascertain a person rank by how many points he/she gets when eliminating another player solutions: do not reward points until the end of the game, or keep the points gained hidden from all except the player who gets them
  • even though it wouldn't necessarily be easier or harder to cheat in a FOP game, it might be harder for other casual players to spot people who do cheat solutions: ????


-------



Game is joined, starts and is played anonymously. The only time you find out who you were playing against is after the game is over

Specifics/Details:

-Players would be listed as Player1, Player2, Player3, etc., respective to when they joined.
-There would be no way to tell which player was which until the game was completely over.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

Would be a fun way to play a game with a group of players and no one would know rank/identity so there would be no prejudice during the game against higher ranked players, people you don't like, new recruits, friends etc..
I feel this would add an extra element to games in that you could not assume anything about any of the other players since it would be completely anonymous. I'm sure there are holes in this idea since I haven't tried to find any and just thought of it but I feel it is at least worth investigating?
Last edited by bbqpenguin on Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:11 am, edited 12 times in total.
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby Ogrecrusher on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:55 pm

I love the idea in principle, not sure if it's workable though.
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby bbqpenguin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:58 pm

i'm just gonna go ahead and stick this here in case i need another post near the top. feel free to ignore it :)
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby Timminz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:42 pm

As i said in the other thread, I think this is an AMAZING idea. as mentioned, high ranked players can be worried about public terminator games, since they become such a huge target right away. Inversely, some higher ranks will shoot for lower players first, to avoid a larger points loss, in standard games. This option would increase the actual "fair" play and stop people from making assumptions about other players based on their score.
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:45 pm

I think "Anonymous Games" was suggested a while ago, but I don't think much came of it, nor did anyone decide to accept or reject it.

I generally agree with the improvements, but with everything good comes bad as we all know. In a sense, this game type could be open to abuse...stacked games of friends/clans looking essentially use secret alliances. Multiple accounts also can be thrown into the mix.

Interesting idea, we'll have to see if it goes anywhere or if it gets stomped and squished. :)


--Andy
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby bbqpenguin on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:47 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I think "Anonymous Games" was suggested a while ago, but I don't think much came of it, nor did anyone decide to accept or reject it.

I generally agree with the improvements, but with everything good comes bad as we all know. In a sense, this game type could be open to abuse...stacked games of friends/clans looking essentially use secret alliances. Multiple accounts also can be thrown into the mix.

Interesting idea, we'll have to see if it goes anywhere or if it gets stomped and squished. :)


--Andy


yes i think as it is there is defenitely potential for abuse (which, if caught, would of course have to be punished accordingly) i'm kind of hoping as this thread goes along some of these problems will be resolved by people smarter than me :)
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby bob3603 on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:49 pm

I also like this idea. One use might be in clan games with multiple clans participating in a single game. This will make people play to win the game instead of targeting the clan that is ahead in overall points
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby Timminz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:50 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I think "Anonymous Games" was suggested a while ago, but I don't think much came of it, nor did anyone decide to accept or reject it.

I generally agree with the improvements, but with everything good comes bad as we all know. In a sense, this game type could be open to abuse...stacked games of friends/clans looking essentially use secret alliances. Multiple accounts also can be thrown into the mix.

Interesting idea, we'll have to see if it goes anywhere or if it gets stomped and squished. :)


--Andy

I'm a little confused. Wouldn't multis and secret alliances be just as easy to spot, by the play? And, once the game is over, the names are revealed, so reporting suspicious play would be just as easy. Maybe I'm just being naive though.
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:54 pm

I'm just stating that there is even more chance of abuse than with a standard play.


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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby Timminz on Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:55 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I'm just stating that there is even more chance of abuse than with a standard play.


--Andy

So, I am just being naive.... I still don't see where the extra chance for abuse come from.
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Re: Fog-of Player games (copyrights to owenshooter for the term)

Postby Herakilla on Wed Apr 23, 2008 5:17 pm

Timminz wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:I'm just stating that there is even more chance of abuse than with a standard play.


--Andy

So, I am just being naive.... I still don't see where the extra chance for abuse come from.


the extra chance is there, even if you can figure them out afterwards people will still take advantage even if it means getting banned. they think they will get away with it.

oh and i love this idea, wheres the old thread? i think the main thing is it really relieves pressure on high rankers. only foreseeable problems i see are the potential for abuse and the fact that if you cant see whos in the game your in with you might be joining a game with some1 you hate and the ignore list shouldnt say who is ignoring you if you are blocked otherwhise you will know at least one player in there.

i love the idea of starting 1v1 fop games. lets FOP!
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby Ditocoaf on Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:36 pm

I don't see how this increases abuse. I usually don't recognize the names of anyone I'm playing with anyway; all this really does is cover up their rank, and prevent you from looking that up. Which is a good thing. It'd make things nicer for low rankers as well, because people won't assume you're an easy target from the start.
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby CryWolf on Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:16 am

in complete support of this idea
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby BeakerWMA on Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:56 am

Love this idea. As long as it takes into account people's Foe list (maybe saying "a player in this game has you on their foe list, please try another" - maintains the anonymity) I would use it alot.
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby Natewolfman on Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:00 pm

this would also open up alot of options in the tournament area which would help with a few of them i had in mind... im in full support as well!
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby firth4eva on Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:44 pm

I'd say Fog of War is open to more abuse than this. Get your friend to join and you know where everyone is.
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby lord voldemort on Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:19 pm

i love it
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby DiM on Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:04 pm

i love the idea. of course at the end the players need to be made visible.
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby bbqpenguin on Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:16 pm

ok, so it's been brough up that there was potential for abuse and more cheating if this was implemented. i tried to think of some way this new method could be exploited any more than any other game, and i couldn't think of any. so, can anyone think of anyway this could bring more opportunities to cheat? that way, we can go ahead and try and think of ways to exploit this game type. go ahead and be devious, use that cheater's midn that i know you all have and have to struggle not to use ;) as things come up, i'll list them near the beginning of the thread along with possible solutions. also, if you can think of any other way to improve the idea, let me know and i'll tack that on too
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Re: Fog-of-Player games ( © owenshooter)

Postby bob3603 on Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:41 pm

bbqpenguin wrote:ok, so it's been brough up that there was potential for abuse and more cheating if this was implemented. i tried to think of some way this new method could be exploited any more than any other game, and i couldn't think of any. so, can anyone think of anyway this could bring more opportunities to cheat? that way, we can go ahead and try and think of ways to exploit this game type. go ahead and be devious, use that cheater's midn that i know you all have and have to struggle not to use ;) as things come up, i'll list them near the beginning of the thread along with possible solutions. also, if you can think of any other way to improve the idea, let me know and i'll tack that on too


In terminator games, points should be calculated at elimination, but not revealed until the end to everyone. Also players should be revealed at the end.
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Re: anonymous games, or "Fog-of-Player" games ( © owenshooter)

Postby bbqpenguin on Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:47 pm

ok anything else?
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Re: anonymous games, or "Fog-of-Player" games ( © owenshooter)

Postby rabbiton on Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:53 pm

bbqpenguin wrote:ok anything else?


i almost posted this idea myself once. another thing it helps with is issues or perceptions that can be passed from game to game - each game can be played on its own merits as it were. i think this could be a killer feature.
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Re: anonymous games, or "Fog-of-Player" games ( © owenshooter)

Postby gp24176281 on Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:21 pm

Regarding the idea,

I think it's a great option and I don't c any extra opening for abuse.

Moreover, I was playing with the same idea in my head regarding another subject - games with no politic. This option together with chat disabled will enable to create an enforceable "no politics" games. It will be a very grim game option - but than, sometimes u just feel like plying a pure game.

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Re: anonymous games, or "Fog-of-Player" games ( © owenshooter)

Postby Marfski on Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:20 pm

What a great idea!!! I put my vote in for it. I can see where it might be a temptation for a group of players who are colluding to play together but if everybody's identity was revealed at the end of the game I think the cheaters would be weeded out pretty quickly. CC has some pretty good hunters out there. If I lost a 6 or 8 player assassin, terminator, or standard game to a lower rank and we all started out even (blind) I would feel much less upset than losing to a lower rank because I felt like I was targeted because of rank. =D> =D>
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Re: anonymous games, or "Fog-of-Player" games ( © owenshooter)

Postby Timminz on Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:28 pm

gp24176281 wrote:Regarding the idea,

I think it's a great option and I don't c any extra opening for abuse.

Moreover, I was playing with the same idea in my head regarding another subject - games with no politic. This option together with chat disabled will enable to create an enforceable "no politics" games. It will be a very grim game option - but than, sometimes u just feel like plying a pure game.

my 2 cents
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That's awesome! Even without disabling the chat, you could avoid SOME secret alliances, because no one would know who the others were, and couldn't try to PM an alliance.
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