"Blindfold" or "Fog-of-Player"

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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Extreme Ways on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:42 am

Funkyterrance wrote:Game is joined, starts and is played anonymously. The only time you find out who you were playing against is after the game is over

Specifics/Details:

-Players would be listed as Player1, Player2, Player3, etc., respective to when they joined.
-There would be no way to tell which player was which until the game was completely over.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

Would be a fun way to play a game with a group of players and no one would know rank/identity so there would be no prejudice during the game against higher ranked players, people you don't like, new recruits, friends etc..
I feel this would add an extra element to games in that you could not assume anything about any of the other players since it would be completely anonymous. I'm sure there are holes in this idea since I haven't tried to find any and just thought of it but I feel it is at least worth investigating?

I like it, but I don't think it needs to be implemented. As a higher ranked player (mostly Major+) you are often targeted by others especially in terminator.

How would it be shown in the game chat? Player 1 wrote ...?
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Hellfire Hotties on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:53 am

Are you suggesting that this be an option when starting a game- such as "Fog", "Trench", etc.? Or are you proposing a blindfold tourney scenario? I like the idea, and think it could be an interesting thing to at least try. :)
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:07 am

Extreme Ways wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Game is joined, starts and is played anonymously. The only time you find out who you were playing against is after the game is over

Specifics/Details:

-Players would be listed as Player1, Player2, Player3, etc., respective to when they joined.
-There would be no way to tell which player was which until the game was completely over.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

Would be a fun way to play a game with a group of players and no one would know rank/identity so there would be no prejudice during the game against higher ranked players, people you don't like, new recruits, friends etc..
I feel this would add an extra element to games in that you could not assume anything about any of the other players since it would be completely anonymous. I'm sure there are holes in this idea since I haven't tried to find any and just thought of it but I feel it is at least worth investigating?

I like it, but I don't think it needs to be implemented. As a higher ranked player (mostly Major+) you are often targeted by others especially in terminator.

How would it be shown in the game chat? Player 1 wrote ...?


Yes, this is how I imagined the chat would be displayed.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:08 am

Hellfire Hotties wrote:Are you suggesting that this be an option when starting a game- such as "Fog", "Trench", etc.? Or are you proposing a blindfold tourney scenario? I like the idea, and think it could be an interesting thing to at least try. :)


I suppose a tourney could be arranged with all games having this option checked but yes, I envisioned it being an option such as "Fog" and "Trench".
Thanks for expanding on the idea. ;)
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby greenoaks on Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:46 am

how would this work with the Foe List ?
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby betiko on Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:27 am

well, if you try to avoid cooks and to lose 100 points it's a problem... but then i suppose you don't join those kind of games. Otherwise it's true that the higher you're ranked the more it's a pain to play terminator, on the other hand the lower you are ranked, the more a higher ranked player with no chance to win will try to favour the other higher ranked players to lose a minimum of points..
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby MoB Deadly on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:27 am

Just some potential pitfalls:

Hard for medal hunters, can't use maprank to see if they got the medal from that opponent already
hard for people looking to play team games solo, less people, will join for the risk of joining with a cook or someone with a trolol rating

Not that I dislike your suggestion, but I think the "matchmaking" suggestion has a lot more potential, and I think once the game starts, I don't think their should be any anonymity
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:42 pm

Ok, here goes guys..

greenoaks wrote:how would this work with the Foe List ?


This is a good point. I was thinking that if you were foes with anyone in that particular game, you would not be able to play. However, what if you were already in the game and someone who you had foed wanted to join right? I would think that the only fair way would be that you were kicked from that game. The good thing is that no-one could follow you around joining your games to get you kicked because it would be anonymous. :) After a game was finished you could of course foe the appropriate player accordingly if you so wished.

betiko wrote:well, if you try to avoid cooks and to lose 100 points it's a problem... but then i suppose you don't join those kind of games. Otherwise it's true that the higher you're ranked the more it's a pain to play terminator, on the other hand the lower you are ranked, the more a higher ranked player with no chance to win will try to favour the other higher ranked players to lose a minimum of points..


I'm pretty sure you answered your own question on this aspect betiko, but If not, let me know. You did hit the nail on the head on your last sentence though regarding the potential benefit of one of these types of games.

MoB Deadly wrote:Just some potential pitfalls:

Hard for medal hunters, can't use maprank to see if they got the medal from that opponent already
hard for people looking to play team games solo, less people, will join for the risk of joining with a cook or someone with a trolol rating

Not that I dislike your suggestion, but I think the "matchmaking" suggestion has a lot more potential, and I think once the game starts, I don't think their should be any anonymity


I can see your points MoB. I think we can refer back to betiko's response on this, however, in that if this setting would spoil the fun for you since you are looking for medals, it would just not be an option you would end up using until you had the medals you wanted.

I had this setting in mind mainly for a different feel to a game where inhibitions created by rank and history would be out of the picture. As HH suggested it would make for a very interesting tournament, just as long as nobody leaked who was who which I imagine would of course happen from time to time. The unveiling at the end would have the potential to be very exciting. Even guessing who was who could add spice to the games.
I like the idea of erasing the dynamics within a game that make people play differently than they would if they knew nothing about whomever with they are playing with. ;)
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby greenoaks on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:18 pm

will the creator of the game be able to determine whether the blindfold remains for the entire game or is lifted after 5, 10, 20 or 50 rounds.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:45 pm

greenoaks wrote:will the creator of the game be able to determine whether the blindfold remains for the entire game or is lifted after 5, 10, 20 or 50 rounds.


To be honest I didn't even consider lifting the "blindfolds" until the end of the game but If more people would want there to be an option of a round limit I don't see why not. I imagine it would just equate to more programming but I by no means object to it from a gameplay standpoint. I personally like the idea of an "unveiling" only once the winning players are determined but having the option you suggested would create even more possibilities.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Woodruff on Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:10 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
greenoaks wrote:will the creator of the game be able to determine whether the blindfold remains for the entire game or is lifted after 5, 10, 20 or 50 rounds.


To be honest I didn't even consider lifting the "blindfolds" until the end of the game but If more people would want there to be an option of a round limit I don't see why not. I imagine it would just equate to more programming but I by no means object to it from a gameplay standpoint. I personally like the idea of an "unveiling" only once the winning players are determined but having the option you suggested would create even more possibilities.


Personally, I think a lot of problems are eliminated by keeping the blindfolds on until the game is completed, from lower ranks intentionally targeting higher ranks to higher ranks banding together to eliminate lower ranks first (each being used as either point-gaining or point-preservation methods).
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:50 am

Woodruff wrote:Personally, I think a lot of problems are eliminated by keeping the blindfolds on until the game is completed, from lower ranks intentionally targeting higher ranks to higher ranks banding together to eliminate lower ranks first (each being used as either point-gaining or point-preservation methods).


I am wanting this suggestion for similar reasons Woodruff, that's why you could, as I would, most likely always choose the "full blindfold" option. I like the idea of as close to zero corruption as is humanly possible.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby TheForgivenOne on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:10 am

Would it be similar to this Suggestion?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=162506
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Extreme Ways on Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:00 am

TheForgivenOne wrote:Would it be similar to this Suggestion?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=162506

imo... Yes, but this one is writtten by someone who cares about the sugg.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:56 pm

TheForgivenOne wrote:Would it be similar to this Suggestion?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=162506


I had no idea that this was ever suggested before but yes, it is similar, if not the same idea. However, I urge you strongly to not merge this thread to the others. The reason being that those threads include a lot of posters who seemed to be confused about what the suggestion actually was, in turn causing the threads to become somewhat convoluted.
I did gain some insights from that link regarding the idea and one limitation it may have: you won't be able to use invites with this option for obvious reasons.
One variation of the idea that was discussed in the link was the idea that while each player would be anonymous as to which player was which, you would still know which players were taking part in each specific game. This is not what I am suggesting. It would make it much too easy to guess who was who with some research into when certain players logged on or by observing the behaviors of turns taken. The anonymity would have to be either complete or none at all.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby The Voice on Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:28 pm

This suggestion has my full support. Well articulated, Funky.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:08 pm

The Voice wrote:This suggestion has my full support. Well articulated, Funky.


Thanks, Voice.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:04 pm

UPDATE:

So I joined a tournament a while back(don't even remember joining tbh) and on my first game it is me vs 3 sergeants. I am getting inexplicably piled on for what I can see is no other reason but my rank. I haven't been in a non-clan tourney for so long I forgot how crappy this situation is. It's quite hard to have a chance when all eyes are on you, looking at you like a point pork chop.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby chapcrap on Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:27 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:UPDATE:

So I joined a tournament a while back(don't even remember joining tbh) and on my first game it is me vs 3 sergeants. I am getting inexplicably piled on for what I can see is no other reason but my rank. I haven't been in a non-clan tourney for so long I forgot how crappy this situation is. It's quite hard to have a chance when all eyes are on you, looking at you like a point pork chop.

I don't feel like that happens to me when I play. But I don't mind the option.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:11 pm

chapcrap wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:UPDATE:

So I joined a tournament a while back(don't even remember joining tbh) and on my first game it is me vs 3 sergeants. I am getting inexplicably piled on for what I can see is no other reason but my rank. I haven't been in a non-clan tourney for so long I forgot how crappy this situation is. It's quite hard to have a chance when all eyes are on you, looking at you like a point pork chop.

I don't feel like that happens to me when I play. But I don't mind the option.


You are probably just more charming. ;)
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby sirgermaine on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:17 pm

I discussed this in my sticky thread about fog viewtopic.php?f=4&t=171747&start=30, where this would be a further option. This takes it a step further than I had proposed, where even the waiting for players stage is totally anonymous. I would agree with some of the earlier posts here which state that Foe list implementation would be very difficult. This also poses some other potential problems for team games. I do not like to join team games and leave a slot open for my teammate, since I do not know if they are going to deadbeat out or ignore me or whatnot, so I only play team games with players I know on my team. I assume that you cannot invite a player to this sort of game, since then you would know who someone was, but nobody else would. This would keep a lot of people from playing any team game on this setting.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:51 pm

sirgermaine wrote: This also poses some other potential problems for team games. I do not like to join team games and leave a slot open for my teammate, since I do not know if they are going to deadbeat out or ignore me or whatnot, so I only play team games with players I know on my team. I assume that you cannot invite a player to this sort of game, since then you would know who someone was, but nobody else would. This would keep a lot of people from playing any team game on this setting.


This is a very good point sirgermaine. Invites to free-for-all games would not work with this option since you would have an unfair advantage as you stated. As far as team games however, this would essentially still be in the same vein of the original idea since all of your opponents would remain anonymous and therefore no advantage would really be gained. Either team would still see their opponents as just two other players, the anonymity meant to be attained by the blindfold option is still there and the playing field remains even since either team can now discuss their rank with each other. The dynamics remain the same as any team game invite scenario.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby agentcom on Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:54 am

Some version of this has been posted before. The downside to it is the following: You have to hide every piece of information about the game to make it truly workable. I just picked the settings at random, but let's say you start a trips Japan game. You just give someone the game number and tell them to join team 1.

Fine, you say, so hide the game number. Well, there are currently zero (0!) games waiting for players with those settings. You could easily tell someone to do a search for trips Japan games and join team 1 and know who your teammates are. Fine, you say, hide the map.

Well, then they just search by settings. If you set up a nuke, adjacent, trench game, there are currently zero (0!) games waiting for that game type.

Fine, you say, hide all the identifying information about the game. Well, now only you know the settings and every other player is signing up for a completely random game that only you know the settings of. Can you say farmer's paradise?

The only way that I can see this working is for a player to be allowed to create a completely random game (size, type, teams, settings) and have other people be able to sign up for it until it is full. Perhaps that is a good suggestion, but it's much different from what is being proposed here.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Woodruff on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:13 am

Funkyterrance wrote:UPDATE:

So I joined a tournament a while back(don't even remember joining tbh) and on my first game it is me vs 3 sergeants. I am getting inexplicably piled on for what I can see is no other reason but my rank. I haven't been in a non-clan tourney for so long I forgot how crappy this situation is. It's quite hard to have a chance when all eyes are on you, looking at you like a point pork chop.


I can honestly say I don't see this happen very often in tournaments. Normal play, yes...but in tournaments, typically folks are too concerned about winning the tournament to engage in this sort of thing.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: "Blindfold" Option

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:54 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:UPDATE:

So I joined a tournament a while back(don't even remember joining tbh) and on my first game it is me vs 3 sergeants. I am getting inexplicably piled on for what I can see is no other reason but my rank. I haven't been in a non-clan tourney for so long I forgot how crappy this situation is. It's quite hard to have a chance when all eyes are on you, looking at you like a point pork chop.


I can honestly say I don't see this happen very often in tournaments. Normal play, yes...but in tournaments, typically folks are too concerned about winning the tournament to engage in this sort of thing.


You guys could totally be right about this, I don't do very many tournaments.
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