Staggered Gameplay

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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:56 am

I think it's an easy implementation and would forever solve the question for "12 hours turns" and whatever while giving the site a truly unique feature.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:07 am

Ok. Neat idea. Time for some Doomy Downerpants.

Some thought has been given to how this works for 8 players, but how about for less than 4 players? Let me present a situation in 3-players.

1 AM Player 3's turn starts. 7 AM player 1 can take his turn. 1 PM player 2 can take his turn. Player 1 and 2 each take their turn. Now player 3 takes his turn and it goes to player 3 turns again.

Also, a formula has to be assessed. In 8-player. Player 1 doesn't take his turn before Player 2 is activated. 1 minute before player 3 is activated, player 1 takes his turn and the baton passes to player 2. The new count will have to start from player 2's 24 hour clock, unless the log reads back players.

I am toying with the idea of a fixed clock. So that every 6 hours, a new turn is activated. This has the downsides of having potential times when nobody can play, but the added advantage of having 0% chance for ridiculously complicated situations. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I blame that on tiredness.

Can anyone try to write a simple formula for determining when a turn becomes activated? Do it in logic, math, computer, whatever, let's just get a more rigorous form of this in writing so we can actually test and see if there any problems.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:00 am

it is the same as now.

the next turn starts when the previous player has taken their turn or a fixed period of time has elapsed from the start of the previous players turn.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:22 am

I don't even know how you count the time on the server to determine anything. If it's a task done if someone open the pages or if you guys use daemons or when you guys use services. Lol.

I just told that it would be easy because the site already determine on freestyle when its half the turn time so the same code could be used into this one with some slightly changes.

It's the same as when in freestyle you can see if it's half the turn. Except that you will fix it for 6 hours. Addind the possibility to counting as a fraction of total time. But I think using constants is better, someone may one day create a longer time turn and more than 8 players to play battle royale or 12 players games.
Adding the possibility to enabling more and more players.

If I had the code maybe I could think of something though I'm a noob at it.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:43 am

Round 1
time =0, Player 1's turn starts
if time = 360 mins or Player 1 ends turn, Player 2's turn starts (B)
if time = (B) + 360 mins or Player 2 ends turn, Player 3's turn starts (C)
if time = (C) + 360 mins or Player 3 ends turn, Player 4's turn starts (D)
if time = (D) + 360 mins or Player 4 ends turn, Player 5's turn starts (E)
if time = (E) + 360 mins or Player 5 ends turn, Player 6's turn starts (F)
if time = (F) + 360 mins or Player 6 ends turn, Player 7's turn starts (G)
if time = (G) + 360 mins or Player 7 ends turn, Player 8's turn starts (H)

this can easily be expanded for Battle Royales
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:56 am

greenoaks wrote:Round 1
time =0, Player 1's turn starts
if time = 360 mins or Player 1 ends turn, Player 2's turn starts (B)
if time = (B) + 360 mins or Player 2 ends turn, Player 3's turn starts (C)
if time = (C) + 360 mins or Player 3 ends turn, Player 4's turn starts (D)
if time = (D) + 360 mins or Player 4 ends turn, Player 5's turn starts (E)
if time = (E) + 360 mins or Player 5 ends turn, Player 6's turn starts (F)
if time = (F) + 360 mins or Player 6 ends turn, Player 7's turn starts (G)
if time = (G) + 360 mins or Player 7 ends turn, Player 8's turn starts (H)

this can easily be expanded for Battle Royales


So, theoretically, within 7 hours, everyone could take a turn?
We need to define "ends turn" if they are the "active player" and not count ends turn if the next player has already taken a turn.

I have spent all night mulling. I don't think they are actually any situations in which this breaks down.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:19 am

Yep. The second turn starts after everything. One may be able to play twice. It's a small price to pay I guess.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:22 am

Another option to avoid people from playing twice as it may become yet another farming tool at objective maps is delaying the last one if he's the last to play. That would be like Freestyle except that it's based on time and not on whether people already opened his turn. If it's to avoid he could be able to play after some time or after someone FINISHED one's turn.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:15 pm

2 turns before someone else has taken 1 will occur in all small games & ones that have only a few players left.

it is already dealt with in Freestyle. that code could be used. an overlap is only possible if half of a players standard game turn (12 hours for casual) has elapsed.
Last edited by greenoaks on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby Armandolas on Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:18 pm

So this is a semi-freestyle, right?
I assume that if game initializes at 00:00 then 2nd player can start the turn at 6am and 3rd at 12, 4th at 18pm and so on
But player 1 , even if player 2 started to playe after the 6 hours, can he still have 24 hours to play?
If so... i like the ideia very much...if not ill see a lot of missed turns.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:06 pm

Armandolas wrote:So this is a semi-freestyle, right?
I assume that if game initializes at 00:00 then 2nd player can start the turn at 6am and 3rd at 12, 4th at 18pm and so on
But player 1 , even if player 2 started to playe after the 6 hours, can he still have 24 hours to play?
If so... i like the ideia very much...if not ill see a lot of missed turns.

that is correct. 24 hour turns, next player can start theirs 6 hours into yours
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:27 pm

greenoaks wrote:2 turns before someone else has taken 1 will occur in all small games & ones that have only a few players left.

it is already dealt with in Freestyle. that code could be used. an overlap is only possible if half of a players standard game turn (12 hours for casual) has elapsed.


It isn't dealt with in freestyle.

Player 3 doesn't take his turn until player 1 and 2 have taken their turn.

It goes to player 1 turn, who has already taken the turn. It goes to player 2's turn, who has already taken his turn. It goes to player 3's turn - who has a double turn. Unless he can't take his turn until player 1's turn starts again. Which won't be possible for 6 hours.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:10 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
greenoaks wrote:2 turns before someone else has taken 1 will occur in all small games & ones that have only a few players left.

it is already dealt with in Freestyle. that code could be used. an overlap is only possible if half of a players standard game turn (12 hours for casual) has elapsed.


It isn't dealt with in freestyle.

Player 3 doesn't take his turn until player 1 and 2 have taken their turn.

It goes to player 1 turn, who has already taken the turn. It goes to player 2's turn, who has already taken his turn. It goes to player 3's turn - who has a double turn. Unless he can't take his turn until player 1's turn starts again. Which won't be possible for 6 hours.

it happens in Freestyle all the time.

Player 3 takes a turn, goes to bed
Player 2 takes a turn followed by Player 1
Player 1 takes a turn followed by Player 2
Player 3 wakes to find he's had all his bonuses smashed

the rule is you can't have back to back turns unless 12 hours have elapsed.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby spiesr on Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:27 pm

There might be a technical issue relating to rounds. In a Freestyle (or Sequential) game all of the turns from round X are completed before Round Y begins. In this style that would not be the case, so that might cause some problems.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:15 am

No Spies, the next turn only starts after the actual turn ends. after all players are given a chance the ones who didn't play are still in the round so the round won't advance and thus they are not given "second chances".
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby chapcrap on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:29 am

skychaser wrote:No Spies, the next turn only starts after the actual turn ends. after all players are given a chance the ones who didn't play are still in the round so the round won't advance and thus they are not given "second chances".

No, spiesr is right.

If player 8 is the only player left, 6 hours into his turn, player 1 can go, the player 2, etc. Essentially, there could be a situation where everyone is a couple of rounds ahead of player 8 if they are all online and he is not. Of course, he would then get multiple turns in a row...
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:46 am

chapcrap wrote:
skychaser wrote:No Spies, the next turn only starts after the actual turn ends. after all players are given a chance the ones who didn't play are still in the round so the round won't advance and thus they are not given "second chances".

No, spiesr is right.

If player 8 is the only player left, 6 hours into his turn, player 1 can go, the player 2, etc. Essentially, there could be a situation where everyone is a couple of rounds ahead of player 8 if they are all online and he is not. Of course, he would then get multiple turns in a row...

they could only get in front like you say if only a few players were left. any more than 3 and his 24 hours would expire.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby NoSurvivors on Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:51 am

I love it.. I hope this is the next implemented suggestion to be honest :)

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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:05 am

greenoaks wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:
greenoaks wrote:2 turns before someone else has taken 1 will occur in all small games & ones that have only a few players left.

it is already dealt with in Freestyle. that code could be used. an overlap is only possible if half of a players standard game turn (12 hours for casual) has elapsed.


It isn't dealt with in freestyle.

Player 3 doesn't take his turn until player 1 and 2 have taken their turn.

It goes to player 1 turn, who has already taken the turn. It goes to player 2's turn, who has already taken his turn. It goes to player 3's turn - who has a double turn. Unless he can't take his turn until player 1's turn starts again. Which won't be possible for 6 hours.

it happens in Freestyle all the time.

Player 3 takes a turn, goes to bed
Player 2 takes a turn followed by Player 1
Player 1 takes a turn followed by Player 2
Player 3 wakes to find he's had all his bonuses smashed

the rule is you can't have back to back turns unless 12 hours have elapsed.



I know how freestyle works. My point is that when player 3 is done his round 1 turn, players 1 and and are already done their round 2 turns. So player 3 can't take his round 2 turn until player 1 takes his round 3 turn. This is a problem.

One workaround is that player 1's turn becomes active as soon as player 3's turn becomes active if, and only if player 3 just finished a turn (i.e. skips the 6 hour phase). However, that still means that player 1 (and potentially player 2) are already done round 3 before player 3 even gets a chance to take his round 2 turn. This might also cause player 3 to consistently only get 12 hours to take a turn.

Either player 3 gets double turns, or player 1/2 get an extra round. Either way, its a bad situation. I think the optimum solution might be to not unlock player 2's turn until player 3 has gone, regardless of whether the 6 hours has elapsed.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:26 am

Well. This is a balance issue. Anything can be decided.

I like chaos but I favor strategy over chaos so I tend of thinking about fixed rounds not to let people play many many times at once or having double or triple plays. That would mean fixed rounds and the one who plays last in one round would be able to play only after some time or if the subsequent player FINISHED his turn.

The issue of people playing many times at once is that it would soon became what freestyle became, a free farming tool. People would create a lot of objective maps and play double turns gathering an objective territory and then winning by the double dipper strategy. In my view it greatly, greatly, gigantically decreases the strategic flavor of the game because there's no strategy into making always the same thing over and over again.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:38 am

chapcrap wrote:
skychaser wrote:No Spies, the next turn only starts after the actual turn ends. after all players are given a chance the ones who didn't play are still in the round so the round won't advance and thus they are not given "second chances".

No, spiesr is right.

If player 8 is the only player left, 6 hours into his turn, player 1 can go, the player 2, etc. Essentially, there could be a situation where everyone is a couple of rounds ahead of player 8 if they are all online and he is not. Of course, he would then get multiple turns in a row...

Madness?!?

This is not madness. THIS IS STAGGERED!!!!
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby chapcrap on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:07 pm

greenoaks wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
skychaser wrote:No Spies, the next turn only starts after the actual turn ends. after all players are given a chance the ones who didn't play are still in the round so the round won't advance and thus they are not given "second chances".

No, spiesr is right.

If player 8 is the only player left, 6 hours into his turn, player 1 can go, the player 2, etc. Essentially, there could be a situation where everyone is a couple of rounds ahead of player 8 if they are all online and he is not. Of course, he would then get multiple turns in a row...

they could only get in front like you say if only a few players were left. any more than 3 and his 24 hours would expire.

Yeah, on his first turn... He would still have the others and then get the deferred troops too.

So, the issue is whether or not that's how the setup should be or should Round 1 have to finish before Round 2 starts? Or should there be another method?
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby mc05025 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:53 pm

Hmm, that seems funny and intresting.

Lets check the complicated 3 players situation

Round 1
time =0, Player 1's turn starts
if time = 360 mins or Player 1 ends turn, Player 2's turn starts (B)
if time = (B) + 360 mins or Player 2 ends turn, Player 3's turn starts (C)
if time = (C) + 360 mins or Player 3 ends turn, Round 2 starts, Player 1's turn starts (D) (that is if round 1 is not the round limit)

Lets assume player 1 hasn't yet take his 1st turn
Two clocks should run for him. 1 for his firts round and 1 for his second round which is ok.
That means player 1 can take his 1st turn during the second round

If there is round limit on round 1 it should be formula to say that:
When all players ends turn the new round starts (and the game is over)

Obviously player 1 should take first his round 1 turn and then he is allowd to take his round 2 turn.

Lets assume the situation that player 1 is offline for 24.00 hours and the others are online

round 1 start.
after 6 hours player 2 start and end turn.
Player 3 can take and end his turn instantly

round 2 starts
Now player 1 can see 2 clocks
After 6 hours (so total of 12 hours) , player 2 starts his 2nd turn
Again player 3 take his turn immidiatly

round 3 starts
Player 1 can see 3 clocks running now
After 6 hours (so total of 18 hours), player 2 starts his 3nd turn
Again player 3 take his turn immidiatly

round 4 starts
Player 1 can see 4 clocks running now
After 6 hours (so total of 24 hours) player 1 miss his 1st turn, and player 2 starts his 4nd turn
Again player 3 take his turn immidiatly

lets assume round 4 is round limit

Instead of round 5 starting nothing happens waiting for palyer 1 to take his 4th round.
When player 1 take his turn (or get elliminated or miss all his turns or/and kicked out for violating the rules)
round 5 starts.
the game is over

So the maximum of the rounds that a player can take is 4 in a row.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Wed Apr 24, 2013 2:42 pm

But i think this way the system could be highly abusable.

Unless we put a limit for objectives. The player can play as many turns as he avoid. But the objectives are invalid for such sequential turns.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby mc05025 on Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:23 pm

Well if really low rank players are playing, yes. But it is not that difficult not to let an other player to play 2 times in a row. It is not like freestyle that you have to wait till the last sec. At this style you will have to wait something like 12 or 18 hours to make sure someone will not take a double turn.

The other solution is not to make it sircular i.e. the next turn starts only if all players has taken their turns. This is much more simple but there is a problem that the last player's gameplay is different from the 1st's one because the last one can not wait for the next player to play before him. So the position will be much more important and maybe playing first is going to be an advandage (an extra advantage)
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