Staggered Gameplay

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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:34 am

i would prefer a rolling mode with brakes applied to stop anyone moving more than 1 turn ahead.

that way every player no matter what position knows the next player may click begin turn 6 hours into theirs and other players may follow.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:46 am

greenoaks wrote:i would prefer a rolling mode with brakes applied to stop anyone moving more than 1 turn ahead.

that way every player no matter what position knows the next player may click begin turn 6 hours into theirs and other players may follow.

This would work but stifle the idea. How about a two round limit before the breaks are added. It might become strategic to not play a round and to have two rounds to play back to back. Mainly in maps with winning and losing conditions.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:04 am

Replace the word "strategic" with "farmtastic" and I agree completely koontz.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:51 am

It's one of the things we need a consensus about before updating the op post.

I think. Once the game starts it can go without interruption. However. If a guy have a turn he didnt play due so people being too fast it may be buffered and his turn may become active after someone have finished his turn.
I mean.
If player 1 didnt, play, everyone else played and 24 hours didn't progress so now he's got 2 turns to play. He plays the first one so he's got another turn as everyone is already at 2nd turn.
In this case he's got a turn to play. However at the end of his play the game checks if he have a turn left and let him at waiting time.
The waiting time lasts for 6 hours so if 6 hours are passed his turn is open again. Nothing else is changed. If someone finishes his turn he can play too.
(Thats only one of the options. Lol).


Another option is having him to play immediately.

Yet another option is having him play after someone started his turn. Same as freestyle and farmtastic as the second option.

Another one would be the turns locked and so. But it's bad since the last ones to play could have a lot of disadvantages. So we turned it down already.

But I may say, even if it's a little bit farmtastic it's still not THAT abusable, it could happen but I don't think it will Always happen.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:51 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Replace the word "strategic" with "farmtastic" and I agree completely koontz.

i was thinking the same. great word DY.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:51 pm

If we block this option for less than 4-player games, that is a possible solution. Let's collect possible solutions and make a poll?
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:34 am

DoomYoshi wrote:If we block this option for less than 4-player games, that is a possible solution. Let's collect possible solutions and make a poll?

that would be pointless. all games eventually reduce to <4 player games.

a system that works for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 player games if the only way this would be considerable.

that is why i recommend you can start your turn after 6 hours but regardless of how many players are left you can't move more than 1 turn ahead of anyone.
Good point.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:04 am

Making a pool it's fine.

I have another option.

One can play more than one turn. But he have to wait for 30 minutes.

That way in objective maps someone will have to stop him, sacrifice a turn and it will add even more stategy.

This way he would wait 30 minutes, the game may even end into his turn and the next.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:14 am

I agree that any system must be agnostic to the number of players.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:27 am

Alright. I like this idea, and there's a lot of potential. It seems to me that the outstanding objection relates to how rounds are counted. This is of course mostly only relevant for Round Limit games and objective maps. Nevertheless it seems to me to be a significant enough objection (when coupled with the probable technical challenges) to consider restricting this gameplay mode so that the last player in the round has to finish his or her turn before the next round can commence. If anyone has a workaround to this issue that doesn't involve putting arbitrary breaks on the rolling turns, please state it.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:13 am

Metsfanmax wrote:Alright. I like this idea, and there's a lot of potential. It seems to me that the outstanding objection relates to how rounds are counted. This is of course mostly only relevant for Round Limit games and objective maps. Nevertheless it seems to me to be a significant enough objection (when coupled with the probable technical challenges) to consider restricting this gameplay mode so that the last player in the round has to finish his or her turn before the next round can commence. If anyone has a workaround to this issue that doesn't involve putting arbitrary breaks on the rolling turns, please state it.

your problem O:) is you are thinking in the traditional Round 1, Round 2, Round 3 mode.

this is a rolling mode ie. everyone's turn is the start of the 'round'. the next player may begin their turn 6 hours after the previous player's 24 hour timer began. if a player has not taken his turn then the game can not progress beyond that point (with him used as calculating the begining of that 'round'). rounds are more fluid than they are now but not so much that other players could take 15 turns while you slept.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:47 am

greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Alright. I like this idea, and there's a lot of potential. It seems to me that the outstanding objection relates to how rounds are counted. This is of course mostly only relevant for Round Limit games and objective maps. Nevertheless it seems to me to be a significant enough objection (when coupled with the probable technical challenges) to consider restricting this gameplay mode so that the last player in the round has to finish his or her turn before the next round can commence. If anyone has a workaround to this issue that doesn't involve putting arbitrary breaks on the rolling turns, please state it.

your problem O:) is you are thinking in the traditional Round 1, Round 2, Round 3 mode.

this is a rolling mode ie. everyone's turn is the start of the 'round'. the next player may begin their turn 6 hours after the previous player's 24 hour timer began. if a player has not taken his turn then the game can not progress beyond that point (with him used as calculating the begining of that 'round'). rounds are more fluid than they are now but not so much that other players could take 15 turns while you slept.


My comment is a relevant consideration. However we end up doing it, there needs to be a clear and fair way to determine when a round has ended for the purpose of determining the winner in round limit games and on objective maps. Saying that "it's a rolling mode" doesn't make it clear to me how this issue has been resolved. Specific ideas are required here.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:54 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Alright. I like this idea, and there's a lot of potential. It seems to me that the outstanding objection relates to how rounds are counted. This is of course mostly only relevant for Round Limit games and objective maps. Nevertheless it seems to me to be a significant enough objection (when coupled with the probable technical challenges) to consider restricting this gameplay mode so that the last player in the round has to finish his or her turn before the next round can commence. If anyone has a workaround to this issue that doesn't involve putting arbitrary breaks on the rolling turns, please state it.

your problem O:) is you are thinking in the traditional Round 1, Round 2, Round 3 mode.

this is a rolling mode ie. everyone's turn is the start of the 'round'. the next player may begin their turn 6 hours after the previous player's 24 hour timer began. if a player has not taken his turn then the game can not progress beyond that point (with him used as calculating the begining of that 'round'). rounds are more fluid than they are now but not so much that other players could take 15 turns while you slept.


My comment is a relevant consideration. However we end up doing it, there needs to be a clear and fair way to determine when a round has ended for the purpose of determining the winner in round limit games and on objective maps. Saying that "it's a rolling mode" doesn't make it clear to me how this issue has been resolved. Specific ideas are required here.

what part don't you get?

  • the winner in a 20 round limit game is the player with the most troops after everyone has taken 20 turns.
  • the winner by objective is the player who holds all relevant terits at the start of his turn.

this mode doesn't change that in the slightest.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby spiesr on Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:29 pm

greenoaks wrote:the winner in a 20 round limit game is the player with the most troops after everyone has taken 20 turns.
Then there needs to be a block to prevent Player 1 from taking a 21st turn before Player 8 takes the 20th.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:51 pm

spiesr wrote:
greenoaks wrote:the winner in a 20 round limit game is the player with the most troops after everyone has taken 20 turns.
Then there needs to be a block to prevent Player 1 from taking a 21st turn before Player 8 takes the 20th.

it is not possible to take 21 turns in a 20 turn game.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:34 am

Yep. If it's 20 turns based one can't play 21 turns. When his allowed turns are over, then they are over.

But it makes a slight changing. If someone can do more than one turn and everyone else has already played all of their turns then he can play all of his turns straight.

Later I will gather the options people displayed about double turns.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby greenoaks on Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:08 am

skychaser wrote:Yep. If it's 20 turns based one can't play 21 turns. When his allowed turns are over, then they are over.

But it makes a slight changing. If someone can do more than one turn and everyone else has already played all of their turns then he can play all of his turns straight.

Later I will gather the options people displayed about double turns.

which is why i said a rolling turn. you can't move more than 1 move ahead of anyone else.

Staggered may allow you to take your turn 6 hours into the previous players turn, (if they have not taken theirs immediately) but this is a casual gamesite and that previous player still gets 24 hours to take their turn. as such you can not move more than 1 turn ahead of them, or anyone else.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby IcePack on Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:51 am

how am i just seeing this now? Love the idea :)
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby skychaser on Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:10 pm

I didn't quite understand what you told Greenoaks. Could you ellaborate?

I know. I'm not that smart and in top of that I have a headache. Maybe I will try think about it later with a clean head.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:06 pm

This wouldn't apply to me ever I don't think but I would imagine freemiums would love it; more bang for their freemium account.

It would be risky though. Everyone could one day take their turns quickly in order and you're at work or something for 8 hours and boom, missed turn. For this reason I would probably not do it since my ability to get online is quite scattered but I always am able to get on once a day.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:15 pm

greenoaks wrote:
skychaser wrote:Yep. If it's 20 turns based one can't play 21 turns. When his allowed turns are over, then they are over.

But it makes a slight changing. If someone can do more than one turn and everyone else has already played all of their turns then he can play all of his turns straight.

Later I will gather the options people displayed about double turns.

which is why i said a rolling turn. you can't move more than 1 move ahead of anyone else.

Staggered may allow you to take your turn 6 hours into the previous players turn, (if they have not taken theirs immediately) but this is a casual gamesite and that previous player still gets 24 hours to take their turn. as such you can not move more than 1 turn ahead of them, or anyone else.


Suppose we have a two player game, and red starts and immediately plays his turn. Green has 24 hours to play, but waits until hour 22 to play. After six hours had passed, red could play his second turn before green has even taken his first turn. How do we count what rounds each turn happened in? After green has played his turn, does that start a new 'round'? If so, what round is red in? Are the players in different rounds simultaneously? How do we enforce that each gets the same total number of turns in a round limit game?
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby Vartiovuori on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:58 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
skychaser wrote:Yep. If it's 20 turns based one can't play 21 turns. When his allowed turns are over, then they are over.

But it makes a slight changing. If someone can do more than one turn and everyone else has already played all of their turns then he can play all of his turns straight.

Later I will gather the options people displayed about double turns.

which is why i said a rolling turn. you can't move more than 1 move ahead of anyone else.

Staggered may allow you to take your turn 6 hours into the previous players turn, (if they have not taken theirs immediately) but this is a casual gamesite and that previous player still gets 24 hours to take their turn. as such you can not move more than 1 turn ahead of them, or anyone else.


Suppose we have a two player game, and red starts and immediately plays his turn. Green has 24 hours to play, but waits until hour 22 to play. After six hours had passed, red could play his second turn before green has even taken his first turn. How do we count what rounds each turn happened in? After green has played his turn, does that start a new 'round'? If so, what round is red in? Are the players in different rounds simultaneously? How do we enforce that each gets the same total number of turns in a round limit game?


After green plays his first turn, he immediately gets a second turn because red already played his second round.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby spiesr on Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:33 pm

Vartiovuori wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:Suppose we have a two player game, and red starts and immediately plays his turn. Green has 24 hours to play, but waits until hour 22 to play. After six hours had passed, red could play his second turn before green has even taken his first turn. How do we count what rounds each turn happened in? After green has played his turn, does that start a new 'round'? If so, what round is red in? Are the players in different rounds simultaneously? How do we enforce that each gets the same total number of turns in a round limit game?
After green plays his first turn, he immediately gets a second turn because red already played his second round.
Yes, however if you read the post you could see that Player 1 taking his Round 2 turn before Player 2 takes his Round 1 may present a significant technical issue.
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Re: Staggered Gameplay

Postby mc05025 on Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:56 pm

mc05025 wrote:Hmm, that seems funny and intresting.

Lets check the complicated 3 players situation

Round 1
time =0, Player 1's turn starts
if time = 360 mins or Player 1 ends turn, Player 2's turn starts (B)
if time = (B) + 360 mins or Player 2 ends turn, Player 3's turn starts (C)
if time = (C) + 360 mins or Player 3 ends turn, Round 2 starts, Player 1's turn starts (D) (that is if round 1 is not the round limit)

Lets assume player 1 hasn't yet take his 1st turn
Two clocks should run for him. 1 for his firts round and 1 for his second round which is ok.
That means player 1 can take his 1st turn during the second round

If there is round limit on round 1 it should be formula to say that:
When all players ends turn the new round starts (and the game is over)

Obviously player 1 should take first his round 1 turn and then he is allowd to take his round 2 turn.


EXAMPLE

Lets assume the situation that player 1 is offline for 24.00 hours and the others are online

round 1 start.
after 6 hours player 2 start and end turn.
Player 3 can take and end his turn instantly

round 2 starts
Now player 1 can see 2 clocks
After 6 hours (so total of 12 hours) , player 2 starts his 2nd turn
Again player 3 take his turn immidiatly

round 3 starts
Player 1 can see 3 clocks running now
After 6 hours (so total of 18 hours), player 2 starts his 3nd turn
Again player 3 take his turn immidiatly

round 4 starts
Player 1 can see 4 clocks running now
After 6 hours (so total of 24 hours) player 1 miss his 1st turn, and player 2 starts his 4nd turn
Again player 3 take his turn immidiatly

lets assume round 4 is round limit

Instead of round 5 starting nothing happens waiting for palyer 1 to take his 4th round.
When player 1 take his turn (or get elliminated or miss all his turns or/and kicked out for violating the rules)
round 5 starts.
the game is over

So the maximum of the rounds that a player can take is 4 in a row.


Everyone is adding something new and I can not anderstand what is the final idea. Is it what I am discribing above? If not what is the change?

The alternative and much more simple but maybe not that funny, intresting and fair is the new round to start only if all players has taken their turns and so it is imposible for a player to play 2 more turns than an other player.
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