Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

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What level should the ribbon be awarded at?

20
0
No votes
100
5
63%
200
0
No votes
400
3
38%
 
Total votes : 8

Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:50 am

koontz1973 wrote:As I said, I will do it for Madrid as soon as it comes out. Then we have a firm start date and I always play lots on my maps as soon as they come out.

qwert, you mentioned Europe, that map was played a lot with small games as well. I only played it 4 times at my preferred setting so it does not count. But fine, as soon as Madrid comes out to play, I will make games, invite players and set of. betiko did not set a limit on games played, just a time frame. 2 months to get 100 unique kills is plenty of time.


wait a moment- 2 month to get 100UDP on 1 map??? I though that bet are on 6 maps not 1 map?

Well of course that these its possible , if you play only on 1 map.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:41 am

qwert wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:As I said, I will do it for Madrid as soon as it comes out. Then we have a firm start date and I always play lots on my maps as soon as they come out.

qwert, you mentioned Europe, that map was played a lot with small games as well. I only played it 4 times at my preferred setting so it does not count. But fine, as soon as Madrid comes out to play, I will make games, invite players and set of. betiko did not set a limit on games played, just a time frame. 2 months to get 100 unique kills is plenty of time.


wait a moment- 2 month to get 100UDP on 1 map??? I though that bet are on 6 maps not 1 map?

Well of course that these its possible , if you play only on 1 map.

Ah, we have you now admitting that someone can get the 100 kills on a map if they want in a reasonable time frame. But lets see how long it takes me to do it on Madrid.

This is one of my points. 100 unique kills on one map may not of been done in the past but we have not had a ribbon in the past to collect. As soon as the ribbons are announced, players will switch games to maps they are close to the 100, just to get them, and then hit the maps they are close, and then maps they would not normally play. Ribbons in the first months will be grabbed at a very fast rate. If I looked and found I was close to the 100 in 3 or 4 maps, I would play those only to get it and then switch maps. Look how many medal hunters we have. As soon as a new medal comes out, hundreds of games are made to get the gold. It took only a few weeks for the first trench gold to be awarded and that is 400 unique kills on a very slow setting.

You have set the bar too low. 100 and players will scramble to get them. 400, players will still go for them but at a much slower rate and only on maps that they enjoy.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:56 am

I already admitted that you might be able to do one a month. But, like I said, it's gonna take 20 years to complete all maps that way.
[quote="chapcrap]Secondly, if someone can pull off one of these maps every month, then so what? 20 years and they can finish all the maps... That is if we stop making them.[/quote]

So, we get a few ribbon chasers and they get up to what 40, 50 ribbons? Who cares? 100 UDP shows proficiency in my mind. It's not just about what's easy and hard to get. It's also about what the achievement is for. If it's for being good at a map, 100 UDP should probably suffice.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:32 pm

chapcrap wrote:I already admitted that you might be able to do one a month. But, like I said, it's gonna take 20 years to complete all maps that way.
[quote="chapcrap]Secondly, if someone can pull off one of these maps every month, then so what? 20 years and they can finish all the maps... That is if we stop making them.[/quote]

So, we get a few ribbon chasers and they get up to what 40, 50 ribbons? Who cares? 100 UDP shows proficiency in my mind. It's not just about what's easy and hard to get. It's also about what the achievement is for. If it's for being good at a map, 100 UDP should probably suffice.[/quote][/quote]

But I am crap at Europe, but according to qwert, I would get a ribbon for it. How can that be so? We already have medals that show a proficiency (bronze) at a setting. If these do not go the same way as greenoaks wanted, then they should be more than proficiency, they should show mastery. With 100, you get players who have been around a while getting them for playing a map every now and again (me and Europe). That does not show mastery or even proficiency, it shows I have played the map a few times.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:51 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
qwert wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:As I said, I will do it for Madrid as soon as it comes out. Then we have a firm start date and I always play lots on my maps as soon as they come out.

qwert, you mentioned Europe, that map was played a lot with small games as well. I only played it 4 times at my preferred setting so it does not count. But fine, as soon as Madrid comes out to play, I will make games, invite players and set of. betiko did not set a limit on games played, just a time frame. 2 months to get 100 unique kills is plenty of time.


wait a moment- 2 month to get 100UDP on 1 map??? I though that bet are on 6 maps not 1 map?

Well of course that these its possible , if you play only on 1 map.

Ah, we have you now admitting that someone can get the 100 kills on a map if they want in a reasonable time frame. But lets see how long it takes me to do it on Madrid.

This is one of my points. 100 unique kills on one map may not of been done in the past but we have not had a ribbon in the past to collect. As soon as the ribbons are announced, players will switch games to maps they are close to the 100, just to get them, and then hit the maps they are close, and then maps they would not normally play. Ribbons in the first months will be grabbed at a very fast rate. If I looked and found I was close to the 100 in 3 or 4 maps, I would play those only to get it and then switch maps. Look how many medal hunters we have. As soon as a new medal comes out, hundreds of games are made to get the gold. It took only a few weeks for the first trench gold to be awarded and that is 400 unique kills on a very slow setting.

You have set the bar too low. 100 and players will scramble to get them. 400, players will still go for them but at a much slower rate and only on maps that they enjoy.

Well i dont create sugestion where i only give chance for small number of players to be in combination to have these award,, and what abouth fremiums? Are you going to discriminate these players with 400UDP?
With 400UDP how much player will be in combination to get these Awards?
according scoreboard

5 player -over 30000 finished game
15 player-over 20000 finished games
130 player-over 10000 finished games
470 player- between 5000 and 10000 finished games
244 player- between 4000 and 5000 finished games
360 player- between 3000 and 4000 finished games
638 player- between 2000 and 3000 finished games
1274 player- between 1000 and 2000 finished games
12639 player- belove 1000 finished games
----------------------------------------------------
according scoreboard medal awarded
35 player above 100 medals
299 player between 50 and 100
226 player between 40 and 50
406 player between 30 and 40
1042 player between 20 and 30
9652 player between 1 and 19
4095 player -zero medal
---------------------------------------
according medal page

medal issue 323025
recipient 205507
average 1,57 medal per 1 recipient
-------------------------------------------
if we take total number of all members then these its 0,52 medal per 1 member.

well i hope that these statistic will show that 400UDP will only be usefull for small number of players,and 100UDP will be right number that all player( fremium and premium) will get chance to get these award.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:57 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
chapcrap wrote:I already admitted that you might be able to do one a month. But, like I said, it's gonna take 20 years to complete all maps that way.
[quote="chapcrap]Secondly, if someone can pull off one of these maps every month, then so what? 20 years and they can finish all the maps... That is if we stop making them.[/quote]

So, we get a few ribbon chasers and they get up to what 40, 50 ribbons? Who cares? 100 UDP shows proficiency in my mind. It's not just about what's easy and hard to get. It's also about what the achievement is for. If it's for being good at a map, 100 UDP should probably suffice.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
But I am crap at Europe, but according to qwert, I would get a ribbon for it. How can that be so? We already have medals that show a proficiency (bronze) at a setting. If these do not go the same way as greenoaks wanted, then they should be more than proficiency, they should show mastery. With 100, you get players who have been around a while getting them for playing a map every now and again (me and Europe). That does not show mastery or even proficiency, it shows I have played the map a few times.[/quote]


100UDP will give maps promotion, and more people will start to be interest to play other maps to. with 400UDP you don't change nothing, because like i show above, only 1 % of players will be in chance to achieve these ribbon.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:03 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
chapcrap wrote:I already admitted that you might be able to do one a month. But, like I said, it's gonna take 20 years to complete all maps that way.
[quote="chapcrap]Secondly, if someone can pull off one of these maps every month, then so what? 20 years and they can finish all the maps... That is if we stop making them.[/quote]

So, we get a few ribbon chasers and they get up to what 40, 50 ribbons? Who cares? 100 UDP shows proficiency in my mind. It's not just about what's easy and hard to get. It's also about what the achievement is for. If it's for being good at a map, 100 UDP should probably suffice.[/quote][/quote][/quote]
But I am crap at Europe, but according to qwert, I would get a ribbon for it. How can that be so? We already have medals that show a proficiency (bronze) at a setting. If these do not go the same way as greenoaks wanted, then they should be more than proficiency, they should show mastery. With 100, you get players who have been around a while getting them for playing a map every now and again (me and Europe). That does not show mastery or even proficiency, it shows I have played the map a few times.[/quote]

I understand that argument. You're still crap at it after that many games? What about 200? I feel like 400 is pretty high.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby betiko on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:15 pm

soo what you are saying koontz is that it would encourage people to play suddenly lots of games on less used maps... I think that would be great!

and yeah 100 unique kills on madrid in 2 month will be hell of easy (but too repetitive imo). but to tell the truth I'm more interested in the end result: how many games and how long will it take koontz to acheive it.

ok here is an example. I really feel like I'm a good player on das schloss. We are a small community of around 10-15 players to play it very often on speed games. If you set one up, you know it will be one of these guys that will join for sure, or ocasionally some other guy. I even keep up scores with players I often play against. I played 360 games on it and feel like it's really a lot, with 61% win rate (I also play it 8 players assassin) and only have... 175 unique kills! now that's a map I've been playing for 2 years, how am I supposed to ever reach 400 at this pace? basically playing often better players rather than farming noobs with invites would mean I'm not good enough for a gold ribbon on that map?

other solution is just to go for 10-50-200. that seems fair to me.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:34 pm

qwertylpc wrote:i think 100 is to low to show mastery of a map, also 400 is to high, so why not settle at 200

200 sounds good.

I'll take myself as an example. I have 180 unique kills on Classic, 130 on Arms Race, and 98 on my Europe1914. That's after 26 months on this site and 4499 games played.

At 100 level I would have two ribbons right now and I could have three by tomorrow. At 200 level I would have none right now, but I could plausibly get one withing a couple weeks if I focused and I could have a couple more in a couple months. That is good, it is a challenge.

koontz1973 wrote:As I said, I will do it for Madrid as soon as it comes out. Then we have a firm start date and I always play lots on my maps as soon as they come out.

qwert, you mentioned Europe, that map was played a lot with small games as well. I only played it 4 times at my preferred setting so it does not count. But fine, as soon as Madrid comes out to play, I will make games, invite players and set of. betiko did not set a limit on games played, just a time frame. 2 months to get 100 unique kills is plenty of time.

Of course it can be done. But any medal can be farmed, if people are willing to act like farmers and go after a single goal. For most people though, who are playing a variety of games, 100 would be a lot. These ribbons should be achievable by normal people, who do not focus on one map but play a variety, who do not abuse the invite system but just make games and let them fill, with the result that many of their games may include zero unique kills but only the same players as the game before. Setting the bar so high that the average player can't reach it is defeating the idea.

Look at my stats above. I have 4499 games complete, with a win rate of 34%, obviously across a wide variety of maps. At the 100 threshhold, I would have 2 of these ribbons and be close to a third. At the 200 threshhold I would have zero.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:39 pm

But that is the main point. A ribbon for a map should not be given out to every player freeium or premium. It should take years of normal play to even get it. It should show a mastery of that map. Remember, I am a player that likes new things and I am talking myself out of a ribbon or two here. But to give a ribbon to a player just for playing Das Schlob like betiko is giving away something for nothing.

Dukasaur and a couple of others say 200 is a figure between ours. So I will lower mine to 200. 200 still seems low to me but as it has been said, this should be achievable by most players.

Of course it can be done. But any medal can be farmed, if people are willing to act like farmers and go after a single goal.

This was never my plan with Madrid. I would invite all my own rank + or - 1 rank as well. I am not going up against the admin accused of farming for this.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 24, 2013 2:16 pm

[quote="koontz1973"]But that is the main point. A ribbon for a map should not be given out to every player freeium or premium. It should take years of normal play to even get it. It should show a mastery of that map. Remember, I am a player that likes new things and I am talking myself out of a ribbon or two here. But to give a ribbon to a player just for playing Das Schlob like betiko is giving away something for nothing.quote]
I disagree with this.

I think it's something that normal people should be able to achieve reasonably. It will increase play on less popular maps. It will be a good thing for the site. At 400, people won't even want to try for it. We want people to try. That's my take.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby qwertylpc on Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:58 pm

maybe instead of unique kills it should be based on map rank on that map, becuase I'm sure alot of older players have awful doodle scores, but would be "proficient" at doodle, or Classic.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:23 pm

qwert wrote:100UDP will give maps promotion, and more people will start to be interest to play other maps to. with 400UDP you don't change nothing, because like i show above, only 1 % of players will be in chance to achieve these ribbon

this is why i suggested the levels for ribbons be set the same as medals.

most people will be able to get a ribbon with Bronze (20) threads woven in for every map.
some will get a ribbon with Silver (100) threads woven in for some maps.
some will get a ribbon with Gold (400) threads woven in on a few maps.
a few will get a ribbon with Onyx (will be announced today :-$ ) threads woven in on a few maps.


there is something for everyone by implementing it this way ;)
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby betiko on Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:45 pm

koontz1973 wrote: But to give a ribbon to a player just for playing Das Schlob like betiko is giving away something for nothing.


lol you are not making any sense. you are talking about mastering a map, but at the same time you're measuring it by unique kills. I'm +2500 pts on that map and I don't play it for farming. If I did, I would have tons more of unique kills on it. There are many of the best players on this map that I've played 30-40 times. I can just throw out invites to players who don't know it well and win almost all of them to get unique kills. Would that improve my skills on this map? no.
How would it benefit the site to have people so specialized on 1 map as your system would do? nothing good. people would just be way too obsessed about 1 map and would only play it. At 100 they can just move on; the more players become single map obsessed, the more it would divide the community.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:03 pm

Koontz i never belive that you will say something abouth all players here-are fremium dont have right to get some medals?
If you want some >Mastering Medal< then you need to open new sugestion and put 1000 UDP to achive these.

These need to be medal for everybody,not for 1% of player here.
We will see in your experiment how much time you will need to reach 100 UDP,and how much time you will need to reach of 400UDP, i bet in end you will be sick of play same map 100 time in row.
If we implement these to be on 100UDP, then we could bring something new, some new challenge for all players,and we could increase number of active games in all maps, and these could even bring more players in CC.
People like to get reward, and from other side people learn how to play all maps in CC.
All above these will not bring to much.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby betiko on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:14 pm

qwert wrote:Koontz i never belive that you will say something abouth all players here-are fremium dont have right to get some medals?
If you want some >Mastering Medal< then you need to open new sugestion and put 1000 UDP to achive these.

These need to be medal for everybody,not for 1% of player here.
We will see in your experiment how much time you will need to reach 100 UDP,and how much time you will need to reach of 400UDP, i bet in end you will be sick of play same map 100 time in row.
If we implement these to be on 100UDP, then we could bring something new, some new challenge for all players,and we could increase number of active games in all maps, and these could even bring more players in CC.
People like to get reward, and from other side people learn how to play all maps in CC.
All above these will not bring to much.


qwert, everyone agrees on implementing your suggestion, but no one about the numbers. change the poll!

if i understood corectly we would have this:
->5-20-100
->10-50-200
->20-100-400
->only 100
->only 200
->only 400

is there any other suggestion?
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby chapcrap on Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:19 pm

betiko wrote:qwert, everyone agrees on implementing your suggestion, but no one about the numbers. change the poll!

if i understood corectly we would have this:
->5-20-100
->10-50-200
->20-100-400
->only 100
->only 200
->only 400

is there any other suggestion?

I think you're the only one who put those first two suggestions, but yeah, I think that covers it all.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby greenoaks on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:58 pm

or the poll could be

would you like a fixed level such as 100, 200 or 400
would you like a tiered system such as 20/100/400
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby betiko on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:46 am

chapcrap wrote:
betiko wrote:qwert, everyone agrees on implementing your suggestion, but no one about the numbers. change the poll!

if i understood corectly we would have this:
->5-20-100
->10-50-200
->20-100-400
->only 100
->only 200
->only 400

is there any other suggestion?

I think you're the only one who put those first two suggestions, but yeah, I think that covers it all.


yup but I'm fine with the second option! ;)

greenoaks; talked about it in PMs with qwert and he thinks only the fix system would be accepted by the site otherwise it would be too complicated, which I don't agree with. so he doesn't want to put all 6 options in the poll..
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:53 am

The layered system can easily be done, we already have medals this way. But the fixed rate is more likely the better way to go anyway. If only we can all agree on a level. :)

It is probably 50-50 on that as well. Half want 100, the other half want it higher, either 200 or 400. But what ever the level is, that is most likely the better way to go.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:59 am

like i say,i want to heard oppinion from Moderators who are responsibile for medal implementation, i think that hes oppinion are crucial to determine what will be best
These tiered system will give over 600 ribbons with same colours-bronze-silver-gold- like to have basket full of egs.
But with fixed rate we could have 200 different ribbons(like i present in first page example)
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:37 am

qwert wrote:like i say,i want to heard oppinion from Moderators who are responsibile for medal implementation, i think that hes oppinion are crucial to determine what will be best

Do you mean a Suggestions Moderator? I'm a moderator for this forum. I've already stated that I think one level is better.

If you mean admin or web developers, you likely will not get an opinion here from them unless you find yourself to be super lucky.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:50 pm

chapcrap wrote:
qwert wrote:like i say,i want to heard oppinion from Moderators who are responsibile for medal implementation, i think that hes oppinion are crucial to determine what will be best

Do you mean a Suggestions Moderator? I'm a moderator for this forum. I've already stated that I think one level is better.

If you mean admin or web developers, you likely will not get an opinion here from them unless you find yourself to be super lucky.


yes admins or web developers, these sugestion are here 4 years now, and we can talk up and down-left or right- talk in circle, but any decision are even not in Sugestion moderators,its on admins.
At these point i realy dont see what to discuss if we dont know what admins think of these.
I could try to send messages, but for now i know that El_Jefe and Lackattack are lock to any talk,, and dont know what are status of other Admins.
-------------------------------------------------------
ok i send message to administrator,maybe they can help to see where we going, dont forget >revolution Begun< maybe realy some possitive change are going to hepend and maybe for change administrator give some view of sugestion here.
hie,mine suggestion are 4 years in Sugestion forum, and i see that you are administrator, so can you tell me what are official word abouth these sugestion. Its importan to know its these could be implemented, or to not waste time on these.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:10 pm

qwert wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
qwert wrote:like i say,i want to heard oppinion from Moderators who are responsibile for medal implementation, i think that hes oppinion are crucial to determine what will be best

Do you mean a Suggestions Moderator? I'm a moderator for this forum. I've already stated that I think one level is better.

If you mean admin or web developers, you likely will not get an opinion here from them unless you find yourself to be super lucky.


yes admins or web developers, these sugestion are here 4 years now, and we can talk up and down-left or right- talk in circle, but any decision are even not in Sugestion moderators,its on admins.
At these point i realy dont see what to discuss if we dont know what admins think of these.
I could try to send messages, but for now i know that El_Jefe and Lackattack are lock to any talk,, and dont know what are status of other Admins.
-------------------------------------------------------
ok i send message to administrator,maybe they can help to see where we going, dont forget >revolution Begun< maybe realy some possitive change are going to hepend and maybe for change administrator give some view of sugestion here.
hie,mine suggestion are 4 years in Sugestion forum, and i see that you are administrator, so can you tell me what are official word abouth these sugestion. Its importan to know its these could be implemented, or to not waste time on these.

This is unnecessary. We are here to filter things for the developers. They don't want to see every single thread and it would be worse for the site if they did. They need to spend time coding and working on the site.

If you don't want to talk about this, we can archive it. If you want to continue without developer input, then go ahead.
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Re: Unique Map Achievement -Ribbon Award-poll

Postby Qwert on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:19 pm

chapcrap wrote:
qwert wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
qwert wrote:like i say,i want to heard oppinion from Moderators who are responsibile for medal implementation, i think that hes oppinion are crucial to determine what will be best

Do you mean a Suggestions Moderator? I'm a moderator for this forum. I've already stated that I think one level is better.

If you mean admin or web developers, you likely will not get an opinion here from them unless you find yourself to be super lucky.


yes admins or web developers, these sugestion are here 4 years now, and we can talk up and down-left or right- talk in circle, but any decision are even not in Sugestion moderators,its on admins.
At these point i realy dont see what to discuss if we dont know what admins think of these.
I could try to send messages, but for now i know that El_Jefe and Lackattack are lock to any talk,, and dont know what are status of other Admins.
-------------------------------------------------------
ok i send message to administrator,maybe they can help to see where we going, dont forget >revolution Begun< maybe realy some possitive change are going to hepend and maybe for change administrator give some view of sugestion here.
hie,mine suggestion are 4 years in Sugestion forum, and i see that you are administrator, so can you tell me what are official word abouth these sugestion. Its importan to know its these could be implemented, or to not waste time on these.

This is unnecessary. We are here to filter things for the developers. They don't want to see every single thread and it would be worse for the site if they did. They need to spend time coding and working on the site.

If you don't want to talk about this, we can archive it. If you want to continue without developer input, then go ahead.

talk about what? we don't left to much discussion, poll show that they interesting on implementation of these suggestion,, and real discussion its are these will be implemented.

Discussion about-if these will be layered system or fixed system,its all technical discussion, because we reach consensus about first question--
are you want to see these implemented


Now we can talk infinitive about technicality for next 2-3 years ,but what the point?

No need to archived, people can discuss ,but i will post if something really important happen. I hope that you understand mine point.
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