Divide off topics further

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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby Gillipig on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:56 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:It's not active enough to sustain activity upon division. Or, most accurately, the benefit of being a little more organized isn't worth the trade-off.

BMO


I land on this side of the argument. Forum subdivision almost never engenders extra activity, and this is currently a bigger issue than the fact that some people have to scroll past threads that do not interest them.


OT is a very active place. The risk that it turns into a silent grave just because threads are more divided than they already are, is minimal.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby Neoteny on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:33 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
rdsrds2120 wrote:It's not active enough to sustain activity upon division. Or, most accurately, the benefit of being a little more organized isn't worth the trade-off.

BMO


I land on this side of the argument. Forum subdivision almost never engenders extra activity, and this is currently a bigger issue than the fact that some people have to scroll past threads that do not interest them.


Apparently having to scroll is enough to keep people away.

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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby chapcrap on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:53 pm

MoB Deadly wrote:And as RDS said, more clicks will make things harder, especially for mobile devices

Not saying that it isn't a little more difficult, but it actually doesn't have to be more clicks to get to where you want to go. You can see the subforums from the main forum page.

However, it sounds like no one wants this except me (who doesn't really go to OT) and Gillipig. This is close to being rejected I think. I'll wait before we move it though.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:53 am

Why is dividing OT a bad idea?

1. rds makes several points which were completely unaddressed. Instead, the opposition could only muster a weak argument about future imagined activity.

2. The consequences of disturbing a spontaneous order such as OT are poorly understood from the central planner's (Gilligan's) perspective. Think: Soviet Union, and I'll provide more examples:

3. I've discussed a similar topic with non-CC forum hosts and designers. One major problem is the consequences of categorization. For example, constantly framing threads into specific subfora denies the variety of topics which can be discussed within a thread. In Off-Topics, going off-topic is informally acceptable because the benefits offset the costs.

How do I know this? Because the members of OT continually express their preferences through their own posting behavior--which unsurprisingly favors flexible threads. Denying this profitable opportunity, which many enjoy, would ruin the vitality, the spontaneity, and the pure joy of lurking and/or directly participating in OT.

4. Furthermore, this newly enforced policy imposes unnecessary costs on the users' incentives because the Dividers' Rules will remain ambiguous, and enforcement will be uncertain. Jokes and small comments on topic X could easily construed as Political, Religious, or Whatever, thus would become grounds for a ban. Ridiculous. Why burden the community and especially the mods will another jumbled set of rules?

5. The division of OT is only supported by a loud, bumbling minority. I hardly need to comment in any "Divide OT" thread because my fellow ConquerClubbers are already there--rallying against that "tyranny of the minority." (ITT, here, and many more).

6. Why do some ITT continue to ignore the preferences of the majority anyway? Clearly, dividing OT is not the preferred choice, yet the Dividers and their one or two cohorts still presume that they know what is best for the OT community. Nonsense.

7. Good Intentions, Bad Outcomes. It is too easy for the Dividers to sit back in the chair, and think, "Gee, this sounds great. I only expect great gains with my utopian vision of a Divided OT." How self-serving! But more importantly, this vision unintentionally ignores the people's preferences, which have been unwittingly replaced by the Divider's preferences.

(Note how easily the Dividers can gloss over rds' points and the concerns of the majority. AND, note how Gillipig slips this suggestion in here without informing the OT community. He went behind our backs, which may be a sign of a dishonest, person--thus, his position lacks credibility).

Proper reflection reveals this implicit replacement of the majority's preferences, which if ignored, will come into conflict with the delusional vision of the Dividers' plan. Conflict, no matter how seemingly minor or ignored, is not conducive to an enjoyable and healthy community.

8. Spontaneous orders are subtle and require intensive deliberation before one knee-jerks his way into dividing OT. Without understanding the spontaneous process and its evident benefits, then one will unfortunately create another "good intentions, bad outcomes" story.

9. One does not simply plan the OT; it grows.


Dividing OT is unnecessary and would forever be a waste of valuable CC resources. All ConquerClubbers are welcome in OT and are free to express themselves--within a reasonably enforced set of rules. These rules over time have been modified by the OT community--without the need of a suggestions forum and without the help of that loud minority. Introducing new and unpopular rules like dividing will only incur a net-cost on the community.

The people have spoken, and the Off-Topics Community shall remain undivided and relatively self-governing. The Dividers need only to give up their reckless crusade, dismount from their high horses, and join us as we play in our sunny community with its rolling green hills of lulz and serious business.



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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby Gillipig on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:55 am

BigBallinStalin wrote: note how Gillipig slips this suggestion in here without informing the OT community. He went behind our backs, which may be a sign of a dishonest, person--thus, his position lacks credibility).

#-o viewtopic.php?f=8&t=184581&hilit=divide+off

Are you brain dead or just trying to look that way?
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:02 pm

Gillipig wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote: note how Gillipig slips this suggestion in here without informing the OT community. He went behind our backs, which may be a sign of a dishonest, person--thus, his position lacks credibility).

#-o https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewt ... divide+off


Ah, the "maybe" has become a "definitely not," but thanks for not summarizing our views or even addressing the arguments from that thread ITT. Still seems sneaky, but--regardless--your suggestion fails for reasons already explained.

If the arguments against dividing OT cannot be successfully countered, then we can safely place the Dividers' suggestions into the Rejected Suggestions section.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby kentington on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:23 pm

If BBS' long post is too daunting to attempt a reply, then here is a little sum-up.

OT has a flow. Feel the flow, go with the flow. i.e. If you have a river and you split it up into different channels there is less volume in those split channels than the main flow. These split channels taper off. Bottle neck, choke, and suffocate all come to mind.

Mindless hours of work that could be better spent on beneficial suggestions.

OT is the only place where you can post random crap in a thread and it is appreciated. Why ruin this? It will result in bans.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby blakebowling on Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:47 pm

The Regulars have spoken, this is a bad idea.

I'm moving this to REJECTED.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby notyou2 on Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:31 pm

Not so hasty.

What if we divided the users?





For example, we give Phatty his own forum and everyone else remains in OT. It needs to be made that OT people can't go to Phattyland and Phatty can't go to OT. If Phatty gets lonely, send Nightstrike in with him.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:28 pm

notyou2 wrote:Not so hasty.

What if we divided the users?





For example, we give Phatty his own forum and everyone else remains in OT. It needs to be made that OT people can't go to Phattyland and Phatty can't go to OT. If Phatty gets lonely, send Nightstrike in with him.

We just had three months without Phatscotty and it was boring as hell.

Whether you like him or not, you have to admit that he devotes a lot of energy to OT.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby Neoteny on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:47 pm

There was plenty of energy over the last three months, and most of it was positive. I already feel myself gravitating away.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby Gillipig on Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:50 am

Neoteny wrote:There was plenty of energy over the last three months, and most of it was positive. I already feel myself gravitating away.

Please don't let us stop you, gravitate away as far as you can.....
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby notyou2 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:17 am

Gillipig wrote:
Neoteny wrote:There was plenty of energy over the last three months, and most of it was positive. I already feel myself gravitating away.

Please don't let us stop you, gravitate away as far as you can.....


Perhaps you and PS can make a forum for the 2 of you.
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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby NoSurvivors on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:21 am

Neoteny wrote:
greenoaks wrote:off-topics is anarchy.

do not force order upon it.


Indeed. BBS will go all free market on your ass if you try to muck with his freedom.


He is not a true leader if he believes in freedom.

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Re: Divide off topics further

Postby chapcrap on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:32 am

Go ahead and keep the OT discussion there please. LOCKED for now.
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